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The Origin of the Saiyans; Saiyan pre-planet plant history
Topic Started: Apr 21 2011, 09:42 AM (10,920 Views)
SuperForteX
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I believe, and I know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, that all of the following data is from Daizenshuu #7's timeline.

- 238 Before Age
The original Super Saiyan appears and wreaks havoc across the universe.

- Age 550
Saiyans land on Planet Plant in a mysterious ship

- Age 720-730
The Saiyan-Tuffle war. Planet Plant renamed Planet Vegeta. Saiyans begin space travel

- Age 731
The Saiyans join up with Freeza. King Vegeta marries his queen.

- Age 732
Prince Vegeta is born.

- Age 735
Freeza begins to have second thoughts about the Saiyans.

- Age 737
Goku is born, Planet Vegeta is destroyed by Freeza

The rest, as they say, is history. (Well, this was history too, but still). Anyway, as a kid growing up watching DBZ on cartoon network, I always found the Saiyan origin story that King Kai told Goku to be intruiging. Granted, I later found out it was mostly "dub-only" fabrifaction, but the story basically went like this:

The Saiyans existed alongside the Tuffles in their planet's early history. While the Tuffles were small and weak phsyically, there were many of them, and they had great technology. Meanwhile the Saiyans, who were large and strong, existed in fewer numbers, and were primative. For this reason, the Tuffles lived in luxurious cities while the Saiyans occupied the wastelands outside.

There were numerous skrimishes between the two races, but the Tuffle's superior numbers and technology had always kept the Saiyans at bay... until one night, the Saiyans became Ooazru due to Planet Plant's full moon, which occurse only once every 100 years (I think it was 100). At that time, the Saiyans crushed the Tuffles, wiping them out, and took the planet over.

Later the Saiyans encountered aliens and exchanged the services of their combat abilites in exchange for technology and science, and thus became a race of galactic mercenaries.

Sure, most of above story is filler, some more of it is dubbler. But I think it's a good story. Or at least, I always did.

Then things get confused a bit, by the fact that Daizenshuu #7 drops this big surprising twist on their history. First of all, about 970 years before Vegeta is born, there was a Super Saiyan already, and supposedly caused wide destruction accross the universe. Secondly, 182 years before Vegeta was born, was supposedly when Saiyans "first came to planet Plant, on a mysterious ship."

Wait, first came to Planet Plant? I thought the Saiyans had evolved there as native inhabitants. Not according to the Daizenshuu. Later on, the Daiz's version of the story was even picked up by Toei and featured in a few of their works, most notably Dragonball GT, which featured Baby recounting the Saiyans landing on Planet Plant and wreaking havoc. Of course that gives yet a third different version of the Saiyan history, by showing a scene of traditional Frieza-era space pods crashing down, and the Saiyans launching an immediate war then and there.

Of course, GT is GT... take of it what you will. They may have got the details wrong, but they were faithful to the Daiz to a certain degree-- the Saiyans were not native to Planet Plant.

So what is the real story with these guys? Well from Age 550 to Age 720 is some 170 years. So the Saiyans and Tuffles co-existed on the same planet for 170 years before supposedly commiting to all out warfare versus eachother.

This lends more to the whole "Saiyans were primative wasteland dwellers while Tuffles hid in their high tech cities." But if the Saiyans emerged from "a mysterious ship" woudln't that mean they weren't primative? Or is that not true?

Maybe the Saiyans were primative brutes back then, emerging from the ship to their strange new world and living like cave men, slowly building power and intelligence in the 170 years of skirmishes and run-ins with the Tuffles. During such time probably establishing their caste system and giving rise to the Vegeta family, which may have united the tribal society for the first time and lead the first real significant offensive in Age 720, launching the decade-long Saiyan-Tuffle war.

So, if you haven't guessed where I'm going with this yet, where did the Saiyans come from?

If nearly 1,000 years before the start of Dragonball, there was a known Super Saiyan, and wreaked havoc accross much of the universe, then that would suggest that the Saiyans were a space-faring race before coming to Planet Plant, and further suggested by the fact that they indeed arrived on Planet Plant in an unknown ship. But.. that's the point it stops making sense. Because at that moment, we have primative feral Saiyans, somewhat weak compared to modern day Saiyans under Freeza's empire (at least presumably), who rebuilt their civilization from nothing, but maintained folklore including but possibly not limited to 1,000 years ago there was a "Super Saiyan".

So, I ask you again: Where did the Saiyans come from? And what were they doing before they came to be 'stranded' or whatever you think they were, on Planet Plant?

It's a great big HUGE mystery, and for some reason, there's almost zero discussion about it among fans. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of you reading this were finding out about this mystery for the first time right now?

So my second question is to you: Do you even care? Now, when I ask that second question, I don't necessarily mean "Do you care about this discussion?" which I'm sure some like trolls will say wholeheartedly "NO!". What I really mean is, do you care about what the Daizenshuu says on the matter? Because I have a suspicion that many of you, ie many Dragonball fans, do know the Daizenshuu says that, but they simply reject it. Do you really think that the Saiyans "arrived on Planet Plant on a mysterious space ship", or do you think they're just native to Planet Plant. Furthermore, do you even care about anything outside of the manga, to the point where you reject the idea that there were Tuffles or a Planet Plant at all?

After all, inside the confines of a strictly manga-only version of the story, there is absolutly no mention of Tuffles, nor a Planet Plant. It all came from the anime, and then later expanded into the Daizenshuu, GT, and at least one of the movies.

I'm just curious on what the more educated Dragonball fans' stances are on this matter. And if you are willing to accept the idea of what the Daizenshuu is true, because canon or not, it's still official, then what are your thoughts and theories regarding my first question.

Now, just like with the Cataclysm on Namek topic, I'm going to close this post by offering my own personal theory. Keep in mind, this is nothing more than a theory, and I'm not even trying to argue that it has any possiblity of being true. As a matter of fact, you may find this theory completly out in left field, so hold on to your seats when you read this one:

WARNING: CRACK-POT THEORY!

I think the Saiyans are a genetically engineered weapon-species created long ago by some other advanced race. I think they were trying to unlock the perfection in evolutionary power, and so this race created many different races of beings, one among them the Saiyan, trying to unlock this great power and harness it as a weapon. I think that great power may have been what we've come to call the Super Saiyan today. I think that 1,000 years ago, as the Daiz says, the first Super Saiyan actually appeared, and wiped out the creators of the Saiyan Race, and possibly even destroyed many of the Saiyans, including himself.

I think the Saiyans were kept relativly uninteligent on purpose by being confined and controled by their creators. They may not have even understood what was going on, they may have interpreted it the way ancient tribal civilizations must interprate our modern day technology... some kind of bizzare super natural occurance.

I think the surviving Saiyans who were jetisoned out to Planet Plant were just a part of whatever force who created the Saiyans' mistake, possibly a panic button when the destruction from the Super Saiyan started.

So here we have these Saiyans who lived in what ammounts to a large cage, never subject to any outside interfecne except for when they were let out of this cage and attacked whatever came in sight, accidently launched off to a distant alien world and given the chance to finally develop and come together as a civlization for the first time ever.

Thus came the Saiyan Empire, and their partnership with Freeza in the long run, which of course destoryed them.

This could also explain why Saiyans have the unusal trait of staying 'young and healthy' during a longer period of their life, to maximize their lifetime efficency of being able to fight, why they're all warriors, as Vegeta told Dodoria known even as the "warriors of the galaxy", why they're so strong and so good at fighting-- they have a killer instinct that even gentle Saiyans like Goku and Goten share: They enjoy combat. Fighting to the death may as well be a fun game for them! And I think it explains why they can grow so strong from recovering from near death.

Everything in their genes was programmed to boost natural evolutionary proccesses to a controlled level well above the baseline. Yep, Saiyans are little more than toy soldiers who got away.

So anyway, what do you think? I'd love it if everyone answers at least my second question, but if you want to give me rich input on all three questions lets hear it guys. Oh yeah and, what'd'ya think about my own personal theory? :-)
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lunar2
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makes sense for the saiyans to be engineered. you might add to your theory that they were engineered from human stock, which is why they are able to breed with humans.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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p123
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Damn you are awesome dude. You are coming up with some interesting stuff to talk about. Will get back to you on both issues when I get a chance to think...
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Gohan SS2
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Thanks, great read
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Mitsuomi
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Train Heartnet Fanboy

Interesting read mate. I like your theory. I really don't have much to add, but it has been something I have thought about a few times before.
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Zfighter
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the orginal super sayain destroyed there home planet
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Destiny
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lunar2
Apr 21 2011, 01:31 PM
makes sense for the saiyans to be engineered. you might add to your theory that they were engineered from human stock, which is why they are able to breed with humans.
Or maybe a Earthling went to a planet and breed with the aliens there to make Saiyans? Ala, Kami.
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lunar2
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Sasuke
May 8 2011, 05:16 AM
lunar2
Apr 21 2011, 01:31 PM
makes sense for the saiyans to be engineered. you might add to your theory that they were engineered from human stock, which is why they are able to breed with humans.
Or maybe a Earthling went to a planet and breed with the aliens there to make Saiyans? Ala, Kami.
huh? a human can't just go to a random planet and breed with the locals.

the only way for humans to breed with saiyans is if they had a common ancestor, if we are going to start making theories. theories ave to follow some kind of rules.

real world rule: species can only interbreed if they have a recent common ancestor, and are genetically similar.

fantasy rule: everybody can interbreed with everybody.

dbz has concepts like asexual species, and other basic separations between species, so we go wit rule 1.

and what's kami have to do with anything? nameks are asexual. or hermaphrodites, according to one rumored AT interview.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Nusu
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.

Wow, great. Nicely done. :)
Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one.



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