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broly (movie 8) vs bojack and his crew; serious broly
Topic Started: Apr 12 2011, 08:54 PM (9,419 Views)
+ Master Saberoph
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Yea, he powered up after the Senzu, but before Gohan did, then never powered up again until after Gohan went SS2 iirc.
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Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
My Gohan Fan Fiction.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8268979/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8508623/1/#new

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buujack


Necifix
Apr 13 2011, 09:56 PM
There is no way Broly would lose 1v1 with Bojack in movie 8.
I agree. Bojack definitely didn't seem like he would have been able to take on Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, and Vegeta all at the same time without so much as a scratch, and shrug off a Kamehameha like it's nothing.

Broly's ridiculously overpowered
Edited by buujack, Apr 14 2011, 12:31 AM.
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chris0022
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welcome to the forums.......

yea it simply comes to the needles and what theyll do, so this debate is inconclusive i guess
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Wintergreen5000
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lunar2
Apr 13 2011, 05:26 PM
ILLusioNaire
Apr 13 2011, 04:18 PM
lunar2
Apr 13 2011, 01:24 PM
but unfortunately, everyone wants broly to be stronger.



ok, if she didn't actually transform, makes no difference. she never powered up versus gohan. also, gohan couldn't put a scratch on any of them. the fact that there's 3 of them doesn't change the fact that he did absolutely 0 damage to any of them while mssj, and we know one of them wasn't even powered up.
Well, you can't prove that they could power up like Kogu, because they never did it. Same thing with King Cold. A lot of people would like to believe that he could reveal his true form like he was suppressed or something, but he never did.

I'd have to disagree with you that he inflicted zero damage on them. He got hits in on them, but being three of them to deal with he was just overwhelmed in no time. He never landed a ki blast on any of them. So hand-to-hand combat would amount very little damage. But that doesn't mean that he was weaker than any one of them.
melee hits usually result in cut lips, scratched cheeks, etc. gohan did NOTHING to any of the crew while mssj. not even a scratch. and he did land several good hits, he just didn't do any damage whatsoever.

also, even if they can't transform, we see zangya powering up and down at will versus krillin. she never powered up versus gohan. when she powers up, her hair stands up, but against gohan it was always down.
Why would she need to power up to fight Krillin? I don't know why she would put her hair upwards, but I highly doubt it was because she powered up. She wouldn't have needed to in that instance. So, yeah, you're forcing it.

Now, you're saying that Gohan from Movie 10 hurt Broly with his knee attack, who was unscathed afterwards. But in Movie 9 you also say that Gohan didn't really hurt any of the demons with his attacks [even though they reaped the same effects as Broly in Movie 10] because they were unscathed. Do you see a contradiction?

Either Broly and the demons were both hurt by Gohan's attacks... or none of them were hurt. Obviously you won't choose either view.
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+ Master Saberoph
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Like I said, it all comes down to where you have Broli and Bojack, because we're not all gonna agree on where Broli or where Bojack is.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
My Gohan Fan Fiction.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8268979/1/
Ghostbusters Proton Pack Project.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8508623/1/#new

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chris0022
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ill make yall agree, lol jk
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p123


Well if Broly M8 > Bojack, what's the point of even having Bojack?
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chris0022
Apr 14 2011, 02:33 AM
ill make yall agree, lol jk
Oh yea, you gonna twist my arm into agreeing with you. :p

Hey, could somebody post in my Cell and Boo arc thread please, I really don't wanna triple post.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
My Gohan Fan Fiction.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8268979/1/
Ghostbusters Proton Pack Project.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8508623/1/#new

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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Necidad
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The Legend

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DEBATE SOLVED.

BROLY WINS.

I WIN.

BLAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGH.

8 year old > you guys.

----

Non spam: I'm up for continuous argument on it. Though, every Broly vs. X topic turns into an argument on how strong Broly is, with neither side of the argument agreeing. With this, it'll be a hellstorm because Bojack's power is also kind of hard to place. WOOHOO!
THE WIRE, GREAT QUOTES - UPDATED 08/01/2014

“I got the shotgun. You got the briefcase. It’s all in the game though, right?”
“Making robberies into larcenies. Making rapes disappear. You juke the stats, and majors become colonels. I’ve been here before...”
"You put a textbook in front of these kids, put a problem on the blackboard, teach them every problem in some statewide test, it won’t matter. None of it. ‘Cause they’re not learning for our world; they’re learning for theirs.”
“There ain’t no back in the day… Ain’t no nostalgia to this s*** here. There’s just the street, the game, what happened here today.”
"A man must have a code."
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p123


Are people liking this?

Perfect Cell > Bojack ~ Hatchyak > LSSJ Broly M8?
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chris0022
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no its broly (movie 10) >Super perfect cell>Broly (movie8)=hatchiyak> perfect cell> =bojack

this is my view
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Necidad
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The Legend

p123
Apr 14 2011, 03:03 AM
Are people liking this?

Perfect Cell > Bojack ~ Hatchyak > LSSJ Broly M8?
Not at all.

Hatchiyack >= LSSj Broly (movie 8) >= Perfect Cell (full power) > Bojack (Transformed)
THE WIRE, GREAT QUOTES - UPDATED 08/01/2014

“I got the shotgun. You got the briefcase. It’s all in the game though, right?”
“Making robberies into larcenies. Making rapes disappear. You juke the stats, and majors become colonels. I’ve been here before...”
"You put a textbook in front of these kids, put a problem on the blackboard, teach them every problem in some statewide test, it won’t matter. None of it. ‘Cause they’re not learning for our world; they’re learning for theirs.”
“There ain’t no back in the day… Ain’t no nostalgia to this s*** here. There’s just the street, the game, what happened here today.”
"A man must have a code."
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p123


Why is Movie 8 Broly stronger than Movie 9 Bojack exactly?

I guess Bojack doesn't have the feats huh? But why make a weaker villian in Movie 9 than 8? This is not a Bio Broly type of deal you know?
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+ lunar2
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ILLusioNaire
Apr 14 2011, 12:45 AM
lunar2
Apr 13 2011, 05:26 PM
ILLusioNaire
Apr 13 2011, 04:18 PM
lunar2
Apr 13 2011, 01:24 PM
but unfortunately, everyone wants broly to be stronger.



ok, if she didn't actually transform, makes no difference. she never powered up versus gohan. also, gohan couldn't put a scratch on any of them. the fact that there's 3 of them doesn't change the fact that he did absolutely 0 damage to any of them while mssj, and we know one of them wasn't even powered up.
Well, you can't prove that they could power up like Kogu, because they never did it. Same thing with King Cold. A lot of people would like to believe that he could reveal his true form like he was suppressed or something, but he never did.

I'd have to disagree with you that he inflicted zero damage on them. He got hits in on them, but being three of them to deal with he was just overwhelmed in no time. He never landed a ki blast on any of them. So hand-to-hand combat would amount very little damage. But that doesn't mean that he was weaker than any one of them.
melee hits usually result in cut lips, scratched cheeks, etc. gohan did NOTHING to any of the crew while mssj. not even a scratch. and he did land several good hits, he just didn't do any damage whatsoever.

also, even if they can't transform, we see zangya powering up and down at will versus krillin. she never powered up versus gohan. when she powers up, her hair stands up, but against gohan it was always down.
Why would she need to power up to fight Krillin? I don't know why she would put her hair upwards, but I highly doubt it was because she powered up. She wouldn't have needed to in that instance. So, yeah, you're forcing it.

Now, you're saying that Gohan from Movie 10 hurt Broly with his knee attack, who was unscathed afterwards. But in Movie 9 you also say that Gohan didn't really hurt any of the demons with his attacks [even though they reaped the same effects as Broly in Movie 10] because they were unscathed. Do you see a contradiction?

Either Broly and the demons were both hurt by Gohan's attacks... or none of them were hurt. Obviously you won't choose either view.
i haven't mentioned movie 10 broly yet. if broly had no mark, he wasn't injured.
ok, since zangya wasn't powering up, what was she doing? you can't say she wasn't powering up unless you can explain what she was doing. she stood completely still, her hair raised, she beat krillin's *****, her hair fell. guess what the only sensible explanation of that is? she powered up because she felt like it, she beat krillin's *****, she powered down. whether she needed to is irrelevant. you're forcing it bcause you want her to be weak versus gohan.

@necifix
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Also, what is this "Gohan was scared" argument from movie 8? I made it clear that when Goku told Gohan to leave, Gohan hesitated. Gohan later attacked Broly without being scared. Yet, Broly still demolished him.

There is no way Broly would lose 1v1 with Bojack in movie 8. I still think Broly from movie 10 is significantly stronger than SSj2 Chibi Gohan and a tad stronger than SSj2 Goku/Vegeta, but, that doesn't apply here.

Yes, Bojack "one shotted" Trunks, but, MSSj Trunks? What? When did Trunks go MSSj? As you said, it was less than one month after the Cell Games. How could he possibly have the time to master Super Saiyan in that time, especially with the Androids to deal with and returning home/helping civilization rebuild? He didn't just go home and instantly fight the Androids if I remember correctly. There was some waiting for him to learn of where they had appeared at, since, as you know, Androids do not have any chi.

The Trunks Bojack one shotted was the same one Broly fought. Broly fought USSj Trunks/Vegeta post-2nd RoSaT. Trunks was unable to do anything and Vegeta was one-shotted into a rock by Broly without a whole lot of effort.

I wouldn't put Bojack at Perfect Cell (powered up) but I think it's absolutely absurd to put him past Perfect Cell (full power) at his MAXIMUM. He's probably a bit weaker than full power PC. It makes sense, too. MSSj Gohan probably was not much stronger than he was during the Cell Games. Yet, MSSj Gohan in the Cell Games was relatively unaffected by Perfect Cell (powered up)'s attacks. So, Cell powered up yet again and this time actually was banging Gohan up pretty good. If I remember correctly, MSSj Gohan did manage to kick Cell to the ground.

Yet, as you know, Perfect Cell (powered up) isn't really all that close to his full power. It's unknown what % of power Cell was outputting when he first powered up (my guess, just an off-hand guess, would be 40-45%) and on his subsequent power up at about 55-60% of his full power. I'd put Bojack (transformed) at about 80-85% of Perfect Cell's full power. Since Perfect Cell (2nd power up) was at least equal to MSSj Gohan, it would make sense what happened in movie 9. Gohan was going all out, but, Bojack still wasn't having a lot of trouble. I'm sure he was putting some considerable effort into fighting MSSj Gohan 1v1, but, was definitely smirking because he knew it was all under control.

This makes sense because he has a considerable advantage on MSSj Gohan who had probably improved little since the Cell Games.

Also, your argument that because Gohan did not put any visible physical damage on Bido, Bujin and Zangya holds no ground. In movie 10, SSj Broly had bombed Goten and Trunks with those huge country-side consuming ki blasts. As Goten is falling through the air, he looks nearly unconscious and very wounded. However, after Gohan knocks the subsequent blast away to save them, he quickly rushes towards Goten and Trunks who are now laying on the ground. After Goten gets up, he seems perfectly fine and has no physical damage or scratches on his body. Despite the intense beat down that SSj Broly gave him and Chibi Trunks.

My point? Toei or whoever made these movies is quite inconsistent with the physical damage they show as well as with lightning effects (SSj2 Gohan barely had one small flicker of lightning in movie 9, SSj2 Teen Gohan in movie 10 lacked it completely, SSj2 Goku/Vegeta lacked it in movie 12 and movie 13).

Gohan probably wasn't raging and trying to kill them either. He was simply trying to get them away because they were all attacking him at once. He is definitely stronger than them by a good margin individually.

Gohan was more than willing to face Broly in movie 8 and did so several times. The first time Gohan is defeated by Broly was when he hesitantly left MSSj Goku to fight LSSj Broly. After Broly dispatched Goku, he blew through the side of a building and grabbed Gohan's head and slammed him into a building. Then, he sent him flying out into another building. This alone took out MSSj Gohan. Surprise attack, sure, that's true. Just like Trunks' surprise attack on Kogu/Gokua that killed him (I honestly don't think Kogu/Gokua is much, if at all, weaker than the others, he just was totally caught off guard).

Gohan is then revived through a senzu and they attack Broly again. I'm not sure how Gohan is defeated this time, but, he can be assumed to have easily been beaten once again. Without Broly going full throttle and with relative ease. MSSj Goku's very charged Kamehameha did absolutely nothing to Broly, not even made him flinch. Can you say it wouldn't do ANY damage to Bojack or even full power Perfect Cell? I suppose an argument could be made for Cell (though, you have to realize, Vegeta was much, much weaker than Perfect Cell (initial transformation) yet managed to blow him in half with a Final Flash. It could be surmised that Cell let him do that and was just being sadistic because Cell wanted to see Vegeta laugh in victory and then subsequently rub it in his face), but, for Bojack? I really doubt that he would be able to tank it like Broly did.

I'm not sure how Cell would take it. He suffered a lot of damage from the Kamehameha that Goku hit him with. But, Cell was nowhere near full power. Likewise, Goku had more time to charge it when he used it on Broly, since Broly basically just walked up to Goku and waited as Goku took his time charging it and then launched it point-blank. Cell also lost a "lot of chi" from regenerating from Goku's kamehameha. I think LSSj Broly (movie 8) is only somewhat stronger than Perfect Cell (full power) so I think they would have taken it pretty similarly.

I think there is more than enough evidence to put Bojack under Cell and Broly somewhat stronger than Cell or at least on par with.

I'm not saying Broly would win if Bojack and his crew went at him. They would very likely paralyze him and Bojack would be able to take him out. The needles sap strength and, though I don't think Broly would be completely immobilized, he would definitely be quite slow and very stressed. I don't think he could pull off a win with that handicap.

But, in Broly (movie 8) vs. Bojack, I really think there isn't much contest here. I'd love to see the fight and I'm not saying Broly would utterly destroy him, but, I think he'd win pretty safely. Especially given his abilities and unique skill set when compared to Bojack, who really doesn't have anything worth mentioning.

Edit: Alright, I'll give you that it was possibly a couple of months or so since the end of the Cell Games. Maybe two or three. Which would make sense, however, this:

Kanzentai

In the film, it's said that the future Trunks has obliterated Artificial Humans No. 17 and No. 18. From this we can infer that the battle with Bojack was an event that happened several months after the Cell Games.


Is non conclusive. It says "we can infer", it's just their educated guess. But, I definitely agree "less than a month" is a bit early. A couple to a few months is more likely. "Several" months seems far too long. I see no evidence that Trunks would have any way to master Super Saiyan in the mean time and in the manga, there is no evidence of this happening. True, he is seen with a MSSj-like aura when he fights Cell, but, that is quite awhile after the Androids have been killed (even years).


1. i haven't said gohan was scared since last time you said something about it. i said that in movie 8, gohan still had his mental hang ups that were brought to the surface during the cell games. you can't possibly argue that he didn't, because broly happens pre cell games. chronological order alone dictates that gohan had mental issues in movie 8 that he did not have in movie 9, therefore he was more effective with his power in 9 than he was in 8.

2. it was mssj trunks. less than one month passed in the main timeline, but 3 years have passed for trunks. movie 9 takes place when he returns to the main timeline AFTER defeating cell in his timeline. trunks has an mssj aura vs. future cell, therefore movie 9 trunks is an mssj. again, established chronological order trumps all. also on the chrono order subject. trunks in movie 8 was post first rosat, while trunks in movie 9 was post 2nd rosat, and post 3 years in the future. to say that he was just as powerful as in movie 8 is to say that he laid down and took a 4 year nap.

3. you are now simply applying your own opinion to things. you say transformed bojack was trying versus mssj gohan? let's see, gohan can't scratch bojack's henchmen, one of which we KNOW isn't fighting full force, and yet somehow transformed bojack needs to put forth ANY effort to dominate gohan? that means that base bojack would be WEAKER than zangya, at least. so, why isn't it zangya's crew, and not bojack? she could just sneak attack him before he could power up. no, bojack is the leader, and therefore base bojack is stronger than any of his crew members.

4. your argument against the injuries holds no weight, because all the injuries on the z fighters, including gohan, are there. guess what? if team a (bojack) has no injuries, not even a scratch, but team b (z fighters) are all banged up, that means that team a dominated team b, and didn't even get scratched. or are the z fighters injuries inconsistent too? are you actually going to say that gohan wasn't really hurt by bojack's crew, even though the injuries are there? no, because at this point you are using your own personal opinion to try to counter what is shown to you.

example:
Gohan probably wasn't raging and trying to kill them either. He was simply trying to get them away because they were all attacking him at once. He is definitely stronger than them by a good margin individually.

you are actually trying to say that gohan wasn't trying to kill them, when they had already killed innocents, and trashed the rest of the z fighters? no. from the moment gohan transformed into mssj, he was dead serious, and nothing suggests otherwise.

you are deliberately doing to bojacks crew what you cry about people doing to broly; trying to discredit everything that shows their power, and making excuses about how the heroes are weaker than they should be.
face it. mssj gohan gets pwned by any member of bojack's crew except kogu.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Wintergreen5000
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lunar2
Apr 14 2011, 04:33 AM
i haven't mentioned movie 10 broly yet. if broly had no mark, he wasn't injured.
ok, since zangya wasn't powering up, what was she doing? you can't say she wasn't powering up unless you can explain what she was doing. she stood completely still, her hair raised, she beat krillin's *****, her hair fell. guess what the only sensible explanation of that is? she powered up because she felt like it, she beat krillin's *****, she powered down. whether she needed to is irrelevant. you're forcing it bcause you want her to be weak versus gohan.
Maybe it was Saberoph I was thinking of that said that...

But about Zangya... So basically what you're saying is that if I can't prove that she powered up then basically she did. the burden of proof is not on me to prove that she didn't but for you to prove that she did. Since no statements were made about her powering up, as far as I'm concerned, all she did was flip her hair up. And how is it that she never powered up against Gohan, raising her hair and all? It's backwards. She powers up for a weak guy but doesn't power up when fighting a stronger opponent.
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