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Something I just realized.
Topic Started: Mar 12 2011, 03:35 AM (3,018 Views)
NeoSSayajin
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I think you are wrong, the one who fought Vegeta was Hell Fighter 17, not Android 17.

Android 17 only knocked up Trunks and Android 18 and also killed Krillin.
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Saberoph
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So, your saying Hell Fighter 17 was stronger than #17?

Either way Hell Fighter 17 was fighting equal to Base Vegeta, that means Hell Fighter 17 would be equal to SS3 Goku Boo arc...so wouldn't that mean there would need to be a multiplier for Super 17?
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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NeoSSayajin
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Saberoph
Mar 12 2011, 05:09 PM
So, your saying Hell Fighter 17 was stronger than #17?

Either way Hell Fighter 17 was fighting equal to Base Vegeta, that means Hell Fighter 17 would be equal to SS3 Goku Boo arc...so wouldn't that mean there would need to be a multiplier for Super 17?
No doubt that Hell Fighter was far stronger that Android 17.
He was engeneered on Hell by Gero and Myu and he was a machine mutant.

Yes, but im bad on that topic, ill let you think of one haha.
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Saberoph
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I am too, I fly by the seat of my pants.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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Saberoph
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Quote:
 
dr. gero did say that 17 wasn't at full power to begin with

I just watched that episode, that's never said. And since we can't go by a Manga the Japanese version is pretty much the Manga of GT.

Vegeta: You're evenly matched against me? You bastard, you've powered up beyond belief!
Dr. Gero: Powered up, you say? I'm astounded that you would be so surprised.
Vegeta: What?!
Dr. Myuu: No. 17 is going to be reborn. So, you've finally come my No. 17?

But what makes it even more confusing, is that in the Dub Hell Fighter 17 says he needs to merge to finish the fight, but nothing is like that is said in the original. As a matter of fact, Hell Fighter 17 never says he does or doesn't need to merge to beat Vegeta. The only thing we have to go by is what Vegeta said.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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FPSSJGohan
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There is no plot hole. Android 17 > Yakon. Android 17 was above an ssj. Yakon was quite a bit weaker than buu saga base Goku, who was not above an ssj.

A bigger plot hole is why Trunks didn't go ssj against Android 17. Or why a freaking car crash hurt him.
Edited by FPSSJGohan, Mar 15 2011, 08:35 PM.
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Saberoph
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If your coming here to start again too, then please don't, you know where this is gonna go once I argue your statement.

Actually, Base Goku Boo arc is stronger than his Artificial Human arc SS self, actually he stronger than #17 in Base in Boo arc. And Trunks post rosat was stronger than Goku's Base in Boo arc, but in GT Goku's Base is equal to his SS3 Boo arc self.

And for all we know GT #17 was stronger than in the Artificial Human arc self, he could very well be equal to Hell Fighter 17.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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FPSSJGohan
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Your theory works if we go by the mssj = base x 10 statement. However, if we go by the mssj = assj statement that we agreed to earlier, and assj = about 100x base, then that puts the saiyans' bases far weaker than before.

That, or their full powered power levels would be ridiculously high, ie MSSJ Goku's power level would approach 100 billion.

The ROSAT is efficient, but for Goku and Vegeta to raise their bases 80 times or more to reach Android 17 levels in base is too much.
Edited by FPSSJGohan, Mar 15 2011, 09:03 PM.
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Saberoph
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You are really getting on the last of my nerves, are you trying to get me to flame you?

I never said MSS was equal to Ascended SS, you said we agreed...not ME!

I said I believe MSS to be greater.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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FPSSJGohan
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Then that supports my argument in this thread (and pretty much every other of our arguments too) even more. Goku's base doesn't have to be that powerful if the mssj multiplier is super high*. Therefore, there's no reason to believe that Goku in DBZ ever even surpassed SSJ Goku on Namek.

*I'm not saying that you don't understand it, but incase you don't, if the mssj multiplier is, say, 120x base, then if x = mssj PL, base is x/120. If mssj were 10x base like some people think, base would be x/10. If x > 0, which obviously it is, then x/10 > x/120. The higher the mssj multiplier is, either the mssj PL goes up, or the base PL goes down.

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Saberoph
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It proves nothing, just you put words in my mouth and get sh*t started again.

If Base Goku was that weak, then he wouldn't survive all those attacks from Bebi, and wouldn't survive Super 17's attacks in Base...That alone is enough evidence to disprove your argument.

But really, if your gonna pull the same stuff as you do in other Topics, then please go somewhere else, because all your gonna do is make this Topic like all the other Topics your in.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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FPSSJGohan
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Saberoph
Mar 15 2011, 10:07 PM
It proves nothing, just you put words in my mouth and get sh*t started again.

If Base Goku was that weak, then he wouldn't survive all those attacks from Bebi, and wouldn't survive Super 17's attacks in Base...That alone is enough evidence to disprove your argument.

But really, if your gonna pull the same stuff as you do in other Topics, then please go somewhere else, because all your gonna do is make this Topic like all the other Topics your in.
We're not talking about GT Goku. We're talking about Z Goku. Z Goku was stronger than Yakon. We all know that GT Goku is super haxxed, but that's not the point.

Z Goku is weaker than 17 but stronger than Yakon. That was my argument. Therefore, there's no plot hole.

So please, stop using GT Goku as evidence against Z Goku, and follow your rules; don't put words in my mouth. I didn't mention GT Goku, and obviously GT Goku is not weaker than 17, otherwise he wouldn't be pwning Cell and Freiza at once.
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+ Pyrus
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Yakon was stronger than Kaioshin yet weaker than No.17? That doesn't make sense.
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Saberoph
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It makes none, that's what I'm saying and I was talking about GT Goku not Z, I don;t know what the hell his problem is, but he's pissing a lot of people off.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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FPSSJGohan
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Kamikaze Pyro
Mar 15 2011, 10:42 PM
Yakon was stronger than Kaioshin yet weaker than No.17? That doesn't make sense.
Kaioshin is all over the place with his supposed power level.

1. He scares Piccolo. Some have interpreted this to mean that he's > Piccolo, putting him on par with initial perfect cell.
2. He can apparently one shot Freiza, so he's in the hundreds of millions at least.
3. He's scared of Yakon, so he's weaker than base Goku.
4. He's scared of a one handed energy blast from MSSJ Goku as if it'll kill him, so he's within oneshot territory for MSSJ Goku.
5. He does better against Fat Buu than SSJ2 Gohan does.
6. He manages to paralyze SSJ2 Gohan.
7. He can't take out the Z sword bu SSJ Gohan can.
8. He using the potara earings with kibito is implied to be weaker than an ssj2, and far weaker than base Vegetto.

Based on this, he's either in the high hundreds of millions or below 100 million. He might have underestimated Freiza; otherwise, he'd know how powerful the Z warriors would have to be to have defeated Freiza. He's weaker than base Goku it seems, who I maintain to be weaker than Namek SSJ Goku (using a 100x+ mssj multiplier, this makes sense). It's inconsistent.
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