FPSSJGohan

Mar 11 2011, 09:56 PM

Saberoph

Mar 9 2011, 03:28 AM

So true...the fact that Gohan Boo arc. was higher than The Namek proves how far behind the saiyans left everyone.

I see The Namek taking pre-rosat Goten, but post-rosat Goten rips The Names a hole...since he doesn't have one.

The problem with your theory is that Gohan regressed from Cell to Buu, so if Piccolo was left in the dust so would Gohan, at least in his base form. Get it? Gohan got weaker after the 7 years of not training, so you can't say that Gohan rose his base literally a hundred fold when he actually weakened a decent amount.

Cell games Piccolo is obviously > cell games base Gohan *> buu saga base Gohan

We know that Gohan buu saga >>> Goten, so therefore Piccolo > cell Gohan base > buu Gohan base >>> Goten base.

Also, all arguments against this are referring to Goku and Vegeta, who may have been many, many times more powerful than Goten and Trunks. Therefore, such arguments are red herrings.

*On this point, Piccolo and Gohan both had about a day in the HTC; aka a year inside. Piccolo went in far, far, far stronger than Gohan's base; stronger as in at least 100 times stronger, remember that this is post fusion Piccolo and Gohan before he went ssj, who's likely no stronger than Nail fusion Piccolo. What you'd be suggesting is that Gohan's base rose so fast that it overcame Piccolo. This is ridiculous. Gohan would have to raise his base hundreds of times and Piccolo would have to not improve at all, or Gohan would have to raise his base possibly tens of thousands of times or at least thousands of times to overcome PIccolo, who would also be improving.

Remember that Piccolo has shown with the Trunks to Android saga boost that he can compete with an even surpass Saiyan training boosts. Gohan and Goku got ahead of Piccolo because they discovered mssj, but for their bases to surge thousands of times faster than Piccolo is completely ridiculous.

Also, Piccolo was capable of at least fighting with and surviving against a Cell jr., at iirc when Gohan went ssj2 PIccolo was still standing. Based on the cell games Gohan base > Piccolo theory, Piccolo would be unable to even phase a cell jr.

Saberoph

Mar 12 2011, 12:36 AM

FPSSJGohan

Mar 11 2011, 09:56 PM

Saberoph

Mar 9 2011, 03:28 AM

So true...the fact that Gohan Boo arc. was higher than The Namek proves how far behind the saiyans left everyone.

I see The Namek taking pre-rosat Goten, but post-rosat Goten rips The Names a hole...since he doesn't have one.

The problem with your theory is that Gohan regressed from Cell to Buu, so if Piccolo was left in the dust so would Gohan, at least in his base form. Get it? Gohan got weaker after the 7 years of not training, so you can't say that Gohan rose his base literally a hundred fold when he actually weakened a decent amount.

Cell games Piccolo is obviously > cell games base Gohan *> buu saga base Gohan

We know that Gohan buu saga >>> Goten, so therefore Piccolo > cell Gohan base > buu Gohan base >>> Goten base.

Also, all arguments against this are referring to Goku and Vegeta, who may have been many, many times more powerful than Goten and Trunks. Therefore, such arguments are red herrings.

*On this point, Piccolo and Gohan both had about a day in the HTC; aka a year inside. Piccolo went in far, far, far stronger than Gohan's base; stronger as in at least 100 times stronger, remember that this is post fusion Piccolo and Gohan before he went ssj, who's likely no stronger than Nail fusion Piccolo. What you'd be suggesting is that Gohan's base rose so fast that it overcame Piccolo. This is ridiculous. Gohan would have to raise his base hundreds of times and Piccolo would have to not improve at all, or Gohan would have to raise his base possibly tens of thousands of times or at least thousands of times to overcome PIccolo, who would also be improving.

Remember that Piccolo has shown with the Trunks to Android saga boost that he can compete with an even surpass Saiyan training boosts. Gohan and Goku got ahead of Piccolo because they discovered mssj, but for their bases to surge thousands of times faster than Piccolo is completely ridiculous.

Also, Piccolo was capable of at least fighting with and surviving against a Cell jr., at iirc when Gohan went ssj2 PIccolo was still standing. Based on the cell games Gohan base > Piccolo theory, Piccolo would be unable to even phase a cell jr.

I hope you know that even Boo arc Gohan was STILL stronger than The Namek, do you realize what your saying...that would mean The Namek's progression rate would be higher than Gohan in the rosat.

Gohan Base still left The Namek in the dust in the Boo arc. Gohan was ONLY left in the dust by Goku and Vegeta, but even then they weren't much stronger than Cell Games Gohan, and by the time of the Budokai Gohan couldn't be more than 30% weaker than his Cell Games self. At that level he would be able to take on Perfect Cell and win, he would be able to face SPC if he goes ape sh*t on him, so Gohan still leaves The Namek and Humans in the dust.

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EDIT: I just noticed something pretty big. According to your own power level list, Piccolo, or as you say the Namek, is more powerful than base cell games Gohan. You say so in your own power level list.

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you are forgetting, fpg, that 50% mssj goku was the highest power anyone had sensed up to that point. he was higher than ussj trunks. so that blows YOUR theory out of the water.

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piccolo could be much weaker than the saiyans, and still be strong enough to believe he had a chance against cell.

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and throwing big numbers around just makes you look stupid, btw.

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you know by now that mssj is not 50x base.

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your only argument against small mssj is that the kaioken was supposedly better, but that argument has already been done away with, because high level kaioken can only be used momentarily.

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only the basic kaioken has ever been shown to be usable for extended periods.

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anything higher is only for short bursts, and damages the body.

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also, goku hasn't used the kaioken in 5 years by the time the cell games come around, are you sure he even can use high level kaioken anymore?

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and, the humans that should know the kaioken don't use it.

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cell never used it, even though he knew it,

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nobody used the kaioken ever after ssj was introduced. why? because it wasn't as good, just like ki weighting the body (cell, assj/ussj, possibly roshi). once something better came along, the old power ups were left behind, even in situations where they would have been useful.

Saberoph

Mar 12 2011, 03:50 AM

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EDIT: I just noticed something pretty big. According to your own power level list, Piccolo, or as you say the Namek, is more powerful than base cell games Gohan. You say so in your own power level list.

Maybe you check my revised list. It's on Page 9.

Next time don't just glance at the first page then bring it in here to throw it in my face.

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you know by now that mssj is not 50x base.


Right, because mastering ssj makes it weaker. Do you realize how stupid that is?

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Too bad for you that your revised list also states that 'The Namek" is more powerful in the cell games than base Gohan.

Base Gohan cell games > Base Gohan buu saga >>> base Goten buu saga.

Piccolo > base Gohan cell games > base Gohan buu saga >>> base Goten buu saga.

lunar2

Mar 12 2011, 04:14 AM

i never said the laws of physics change. now you are just trolling. i said our understanding of the laws of physics change. i said that any physicist would tell you that our understanding of physics is incomplete at best, incorrect at worst.
@kaioken in that case, why didn't goku go ahead and go assj/ussj before using the warp kamehameha? even with mssj, ki weighting should still be possible, since that's separate from the transformation itself. because, like i said, once something better comes along, nobody uses the old power ups any more, even in situations when they would be useful. and cell did know kaioken, because he knew spirit bomb. he got them both from goku. but he didn't use it. even a basic kaioken would have put him above ssj2 gohan, but he didn't use it. here's something to think about. maybe they're too powerful to use kaioken at all. in which case there is no obstacle for a small mssj. and if you want mssj to be stronger than ssj, fine. i have a pl list up to the cell games where ssj is not a multiplier at all, but addition, in which case mssj is stronger than ssj. or, you can go by the ssj multiplier dropping as your pl rises, and mssj gives a boost, but it's still weaker than original ssj. if you want to keep arguing that mssj is so big, i want you to make a pl list from androids to buu, using large ssj multipliers, and make it work. small multipliers work great, large ones don't work for buu at all.

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I don't see how that red herring response invalidated this at all.

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3. Common sense that post Z sword training Gohan is stronger than buu saga Goku? ROFL are you kidding me?

Nusu

Mar 13 2011, 05:44 PM

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3. Common sense that post Z sword training Gohan is stronger than buu saga Goku? ROFL are you kidding me?

Sorry, that i sneak into your little debate but.

This is possible certainly. Gohan at first was only able to handle the Zeta Sword with the Super-Saiyan, later he was seen handling it with his base form, from basic logic, Gohan is during this already stronger/on par then/with his Super-Saiyan and that in base. So, yes, Goku was able to handle that sword in base, basically, Goku was on or even surpass Gohan´s SSJ, and that´s just by going with basic logic. You may think now, not possible, but, it is, at least if you don´t have an valid explanation, that would disprove it. So, going again from logic, Gohan when he breaks the Zeta Sword was beyond Goku.

Sorry, again for popping in.