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Piccolo vs Goten; Piccolo vs Goten
Topic Started: Mar 1 2011, 06:51 PM (15,123 Views)
+ Pyrus Mar 2 2011, 09:49 PM Post #31
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 I think Piccolo is weaker. I used to think Goten was only around Semi-Perfect Cell at most, but I've been gradually convinced the other way around, and that Goten could be Semi-Perfect Cell at least.

I need to make a new power level list.
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Saberoph Mar 2 2011, 09:59 PM Post #32
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 That would be kool to see.

Something slipped my mind, is that MSS Gohan may have just been sweating because he hasn't trained in 7 years, so he could still be a good deal stronger, but since he's slacked off his training/sparring and fight sucks from it.
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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+ Pyrus Mar 2 2011, 10:40 PM Post #33
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 That's part of my reasoning for putting him a bit higher than Goten. He's still rusty and his reflexes and whatnot wouldn't be up to par yet in my opinion.
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Saberoph Mar 2 2011, 11:27 PM Post #34
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 I didn't even know you replied...oops. :lol:

Yea, and it later shows too in his fight with Debura, IMO I think Son Gohan should have gone to Vegeta for help. He probably have said no, but on the other hand, he may have said yes since iirc he disappointed in Son Gohan for not training, and just for that I could see it happening.

Just think of the wonders the gravity room would have done for him.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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+ Pyrus Mar 3 2011, 03:30 AM Post #35
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 I think Vegeta would've said yes personally. He did want to see how he compared to Gohan after all, and what better way than to train with someone other than actually fighting them?
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Saberoph Mar 3 2011, 03:36 AM Post #36
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 Yay my posting buddy is back on. :)

I agree, but not just that I feel Vegeta believed Son Gohan was wasting his potential, and I don't think even Vegeta would turn him away just because of that.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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lunar2 Mar 3 2011, 04:29 AM Post #37
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 another point often overlooked is that trunks was able to hit vegeta in the face. since i don't think vegeta would hold back after challenging trunks, and it didn't look like he was holding back, trunks is actually powerful enough to hit vegeta. these kids are just plain tough.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Saberoph Mar 3 2011, 04:54 AM Post #38
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 Yea...you know my throw out there ideas...I like to experiment.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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+ Pyrus Mar 3 2011, 10:31 AM Post #39
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lunar2
Mar 3 2011, 04:29 AM
another point often overlooked is that trunks was able to hit vegeta in the face. since i don't think vegeta would hold back after challenging trunks, and it didn't look like he was holding back, trunks is actually powerful enough to hit vegeta. these kids are just plain tough.
Power enough to hit him... But what does that mean exactly? What's the minimum power needed to be able to hit someone of Cell Games Gohan power? That's approximately where Vegeta would be by that point.
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Nusu Mar 3 2011, 11:47 AM Post #40
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.

Going by evidence, Goten wins, it dosen´t matter how smart Piccolo is, smartness didn´t helped against Majin Boo (Chibi) either when Goku fought him. So, i doubt Piccolo would close the gap just by having knowledge of fighting. Goten wins.
Edited by Nusu, Mar 3 2011, 11:48 AM.
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Saberoph Mar 3 2011, 01:27 PM Post #41
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Kamikaze Pyro
Mar 3 2011, 10:31 AM
lunar2
Mar 3 2011, 04:29 AM
another point often overlooked is that trunks was able to hit vegeta in the face. since i don't think vegeta would hold back after challenging trunks, and it didn't look like he was holding back, trunks is actually powerful enough to hit vegeta. these kids are just plain tough.
Power enough to hit him... But what does that mean exactly? What's the minimum power needed to be able to hit someone of Cell Games Gohan power? That's approximately where Vegeta would be by that point.
I agree, I think he's around that power...just a little higher, not much but since Son Gohan hadn't trained or fought for 7 years.

So IMO I think Vegeta got lucky in being stronger than Son Gohan.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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FPSSJGohan Mar 6 2011, 10:24 PM Post #42
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Sorry to bump, but does anybody have any evidence beyond speculation that Goten could take on buu saga Piccolo? There are posts saying things like "I'd put Goten on par with semi perfect cell" with absolutely no evidence to support it. Even if you go by the SSJ Goten = android 18 theory, that doesn't put him above semi perfect cell, and definitely not above buu saga Piccolo.
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+ Pyrus Mar 6 2011, 10:34 PM Post #43
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FPSSJGohan
Mar 6 2011, 10:24 PM
Sorry to bump, but does anybody have any evidence beyond speculation that Goten could take on buu saga Piccolo? There are posts saying things like "I'd put Goten on par with semi perfect cell" with absolutely no evidence to support it. Even if you go by the SSJ Goten = android 18 theory, that doesn't put him above semi perfect cell, and definitely not above buu saga Piccolo.
It doesn't, which is why I go by Base Goten =< No.18.
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lunar2 Mar 7 2011, 01:05 AM Post #44
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 but we also have base goten ~ base gohan > kaioshin > piccolo. piccolo said that kaioshin was stronger than him, and babidi and dabura thought that the saiyans were stronger than piccolo or krillin. and kaioshin wanted to team up against yakon, so he's weaker than yakon, who was a joke to the saiyans. there is no direct evidence of piccolo's power in comparison to the saiyans, no, but there is quite a bit of circumstantial evidence. there is direct evidence that goten ~ gohan. there is evidence that kaioshin > piccolo. so you have to work past everything that points to kaioshin being weak in order to get piccolo up to gohan/goten/trunks's level.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Saberoph Mar 7 2011, 01:16 AM Post #45
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 Well see I believe that the saiyans have been stronger than The Namek ever since post rosat especially Goku and Gohan, I think Vegeta makes that leap during the 7 year gap.

And since East Kaioshin wanted to team up against Yakon, but Goku was able to handle it by himself...and East Kaioshin was scared of Yakon but stronger than The Namek, that would suggest that the saiyans are stronger than East Kaioshin...not fact, but that should be enough evidence to come to that conclusion.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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