Piccolo vs Goten

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Piccolo vs Goten; Piccolo vs Goten
Tweet Topic Started: Mar 1 2011, 06:51 PM (15,105 Views)
Balthazor	Aug 6 2011, 01:46 PM Post #301
I'm damn serious Posts: 1,762 Group: Member Member #3,096 Joined: January 7, 2008 Favourite Anime DBZ , YuYu Hakusho ,Inuyasha , Yu Gi Oh , Pokemon What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga DBZ , YuYu Hakusho ,Inuyasha , Yu Gi Oh ,Naruto	shonen Aug 6 2011, 01:29 PM Nusu Aug 6 2011, 11:50 AM By that logic Kaioshin > SSJ 2 Gohan. And we all know that dosen't work. Ah piccolo only forfeited the match because he though the kaio was some all powerful being, due to kami's influence on him. Nothing suggest East Kai was stronger,especially when he thought guys like cui, and dabura were uber powerful. When they first met east kai both goku and vegeta said they couldn't sense this guy power, yet Piccolo just ups and forfeits to him in tournament without even knowing how strong he was out of respect of knowing he is the supreme kai, due to Kami's influence/knowledge over him. I often got the impression kami was like a parasite eventually taking over piccolo's mind over the years lol...but that is another discussion. This is completely bs,what's stated by a character is fact unless it's contradicted later on,piccolo admits Kaioshin being very powerful that he couldn't stand a chance.
	Cell-"Now you will witness the terror of perfection!"- Best wrestler ever R.I.P Hopper June 6th 2002~August 18th 2011


+ Clearin	Aug 6 2011, 01:48 PM Post #302
Posts: 12,580 Group: Elite Member Member #6,372 Joined: June 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country United Kingdom	shonen Aug 6 2011, 01:29 PM Nusu Aug 6 2011, 11:50 AM By that logic Kaioshin > SSJ 2 Gohan. And we all know that dosen't work. Ah piccolo only forfeited the match because he though the kaio was some all powerful being, due to kami's influence on him. Nothing suggest East Kai was stronger,especially when he thought guys like cui, and dabura were uber powerful. When they first met east kai both goku and vegeta said they couldn't sense this guy power, yet Piccolo just ups and forfeits to him in tournament without even knowing how strong he was out of respect of knowing he is the supreme kai, due to Kami's influence/knowledge over him. I often got the impression kami was like a parasite eventually taking over piccolo's mind over the years lol...but that is another discussion. Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P12.3-4 Goku: “That much, Piccolo?...” Piccolo: “Yeah…Our dimensions…are too different…” Kuririn: “Yo-you’re kidding, right? Stop joking around! I-I’ve got to fight him next” Note: Piccolo’s line is a pretty standard way of saying that someone is stronger than you. You can find a lot of instances of people being described as in “a different dimension” throughout these quotes, like Tenshinhan talking about Super Saiyan Goku, or the narrator describing final form Freeza. In Viz the line is made vaguer (“He is a different order of being”), which makes it sound like Piccolo could just be talking about how Kaioshin is a super-god, rather than about his strength per-say. There's also a guidebook entry that says Supreme Kai is stronger, although I don't know the link, Kamikaze sent it to me last time.



Balthazor	Aug 6 2011, 01:51 PM Post #303
I'm damn serious Posts: 1,762 Group: Member Member #3,096 Joined: January 7, 2008 Favourite Anime DBZ , YuYu Hakusho ,Inuyasha , Yu Gi Oh , Pokemon What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga DBZ , YuYu Hakusho ,Inuyasha , Yu Gi Oh ,Naruto	In the japanese manga piccolo says our strength/abilities size are dimensions apart,that implies piccolo is 1 shot material to Kaioshin
	Cell-"Now you will witness the terror of perfection!"- Best wrestler ever R.I.P Hopper June 6th 2002~August 18th 2011


shonen	Aug 6 2011, 01:54 PM Post #304
Posts: 115 Group: Member Member #6,469 Joined: July 8, 2011	Teen GohanZ Aug 6 2011, 01:48 PM shonen Aug 6 2011, 01:29 PM Nusu Aug 6 2011, 11:50 AM By that logic Kaioshin > SSJ 2 Gohan. And we all know that dosen't work. Ah piccolo only forfeited the match because he though the kaio was some all powerful being, due to kami's influence on him. Nothing suggest East Kai was stronger,especially when he thought guys like cui, and dabura were uber powerful. When they first met east kai both goku and vegeta said they couldn't sense this guy power, yet Piccolo just ups and forfeits to him in tournament without even knowing how strong he was out of respect of knowing he is the supreme kai, due to Kami's influence/knowledge over him. I often got the impression kami was like a parasite eventually taking over piccolo's mind over the years lol...but that is another discussion. Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P12.3-4 Goku: “That much, Piccolo?...” Piccolo: “Yeah…Our dimensions…are too different…” Kuririn: “Yo-you’re kidding, right? Stop joking around! I-I’ve got to fight him next” Note: Piccolo’s line is a pretty standard way of saying that someone is stronger than you. You can find a lot of instances of people being described as in “a different dimension” throughout these quotes, like Tenshinhan talking about Super Saiyan Goku, or the narrator describing final form Freeza. In Viz the line is made vaguer (“He is a different order of being”), which makes it sound like Piccolo could just be talking about how Kaioshin is a super-god, rather than about his strength per-say. There's also a guidebook entry that says Supreme Kai is stronger, although I don't know the link, Kamikaze sent it to me last time. Explain then if he is dimension apart how come goku and vegeta still didn't pick up his ki energy during piccolo match? They can sense piccolo but not this guy. I mean if piccolo was sensing his power when they were in stadium, and goku and vegeta were basically right next to him, how the heck do they still not sense his power, and even conclude that they don't have a lock on him when flying to babidi ship. Then there is the issue of him thinking pui pui, and dabura (cell saga) as uber threats. To me Piccolo saying they are dimension apart was due to having knowledge of kami, and believing him to be some god like deity and thus thinking he super powerful without even knowing his strength. When Piccolo told them supreme kai was super powerful, they (goku and vegeta) were expecting him to be really strong, but then found it was just all hype by piccolo. Edited by shonen, Aug 6 2011, 02:07 PM.



lunar2	Aug 6 2011, 01:56 PM Post #305
Posts: 9,150 Group: Member Member #5,265 Joined: September 24, 2010 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime dragonball/z/gt/movies What Browser do you use? internet explorer or firefox	the phrase "different dimension" is commonly used by toriyama to denote superior strength or talent, but has never been used to denote superior status or rank. in context, krillin also obviously took it as a power statement, since he wouldn't be nervous about fighting a high ranking person, only a strong person. @ super buu. don't forget that the ssj3 fusion leaves goten and trunks almost completely drained when it wears off. piccolo was only shown because goten and trunks were too drained to give significant amounts of power.
	list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god


Balthazor	Aug 6 2011, 02:00 PM Post #306
I'm damn serious Posts: 1,762 Group: Member Member #3,096 Joined: January 7, 2008 Favourite Anime DBZ , YuYu Hakusho ,Inuyasha , Yu Gi Oh , Pokemon What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga DBZ , YuYu Hakusho ,Inuyasha , Yu Gi Oh ,Naruto	shonen Aug 6 2011, 01:54 PM Teen GohanZ Aug 6 2011, 01:48 PM shonen Aug 6 2011, 01:29 PM Nusu Aug 6 2011, 11:50 AM By that logic Kaioshin > SSJ 2 Gohan. And we all know that dosen't work. Ah piccolo only forfeited the match because he though the kaio was some all powerful being, due to kami's influence on him. Nothing suggest East Kai was stronger,especially when he thought guys like cui, and dabura were uber powerful. When they first met east kai both goku and vegeta said they couldn't sense this guy power, yet Piccolo just ups and forfeits to him in tournament without even knowing how strong he was out of respect of knowing he is the supreme kai, due to Kami's influence/knowledge over him. I often got the impression kami was like a parasite eventually taking over piccolo's mind over the years lol...but that is another discussion. Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P12.3-4 Goku: “That much, Piccolo?...” Piccolo: “Yeah…Our dimensions…are too different…” Kuririn: “Yo-you’re kidding, right? Stop joking around! I-I’ve got to fight him next” Note: Piccolo’s line is a pretty standard way of saying that someone is stronger than you. You can find a lot of instances of people being described as in “a different dimension” throughout these quotes, like Tenshinhan talking about Super Saiyan Goku, or the narrator describing final form Freeza. In Viz the line is made vaguer (“He is a different order of being”), which makes it sound like Piccolo could just be talking about how Kaioshin is a super-god, rather than about his strength per-say. There's also a guidebook entry that says Supreme Kai is stronger, although I don't know the link, Kamikaze sent it to me last time. Explain then if he is dimension apart how come goku and vegeta still didn't pick up his ki energy ? They can sense piccolo but not this guy. Then there is the issue of him thinking pui pui, and dabura as threats. To me Piccolo saying they are dimension apart was due to having knowledge of kami, and believing him to be some god like deity and thus thinking he super powerful without even knowing his strength. Kaioshin was paranoid cause he didn't want buu to be hatched,also he was quite surprised in the sayians strength,he also has feats such as lasting as long as Gohan and dabura did against buu. Piccolo out right states he's nothing to Kaioshin,and whoever thinks otherwise is just ignorant and is blinded by their love for piccolo and their hate for shin
	Cell-"Now you will witness the terror of perfection!"- Best wrestler ever R.I.P Hopper June 6th 2002~August 18th 2011


Kruegs Outlandish	Aug 6 2011, 02:05 PM Post #307
Posts: 2,526 Group: Duplicate Member #6,436 Joined: July 1, 2011	lunar2 Aug 6 2011, 01:56 PM @ super buu. don't forget that the ssj3 fusion leaves goten and trunks almost completely drained when it wears off. piccolo was only shown because goten and trunks were too drained to give significant amounts of power. convoluted at best... SSJ3 wore down the fusion, and even still, why does that pass down two the boys? I'd sincerely doubt that being the case; Gohan could have just suppressed himself to Piccolo-strength and not give Buu anything at all. That point's insulting... you're trying way too hard.



Balthazor	Aug 6 2011, 02:11 PM Post #308
I'm damn serious Posts: 1,762 Group: Member Member #3,096 Joined: January 7, 2008 Favourite Anime DBZ , YuYu Hakusho ,Inuyasha , Yu Gi Oh , Pokemon What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga DBZ , YuYu Hakusho ,Inuyasha , Yu Gi Oh ,Naruto	Buu has no control over who comes out the most,we can also argue that whoever buu absorbs last comes out the most,and because since whatever happens to Gotenks reflects on the boys SSJ3 worn them out to the point that piccolo came out the most bizness86 http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8332089&t=8273322 lunar2 Aug 6 2011, 01:56 PM @ super buu. don't forget that the ssj3 fusion leaves goten and trunks almost completely drained when it wears off. piccolo was only shown because goten and trunks were too drained to give significant amounts of power. convoluted at best... SSJ3 wore down the fusion, and even still, why does that pass down two the boys? I'd sincerely doubt that being the case; Gohan could have just suppressed himself to Piccolo-strength and not give Buu anything at all. That point's insulting... you're trying way too hard.
	Cell-"Now you will witness the terror of perfection!"- Best wrestler ever R.I.P Hopper June 6th 2002~August 18th 2011


lunar2	Aug 6 2011, 02:14 PM Post #309
Posts: 9,150 Group: Member Member #5,265 Joined: September 24, 2010 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime dragonball/z/gt/movies What Browser do you use? internet explorer or firefox	how could an unconscious gohan suppress his power? and no, it was stated that the ssj3 fusion drained them. nothing convoluted at all. Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P2.6-9, P3.1-3 Context: after they reach Super Saiyan 3 as Gotenks for the first time Trunks: “Haah…haah…Hey…! We did it!” Goten: “Y-yeah! Haah, haah…Amazing! To think that there’s something above Super Saiyan…!” Trunks: “We can definitely win like this…! Hihihi…Everyone will flip their lids…!” Goten: “…But that tires you out…I feel like we used aa~~aall our power up at once…” Trunks: “…But its weak point is time…See…We’re only able to become it for about 5 minutes…Then even our Fusion comes undone and we turn back into two people…” Goten: “That’s no problem. We’ll become the way we were right off the bat! Even with just 5 minutes, we’ll definitely be able to take care of him!” in the manga, you can see them sprawled out on the ground, obviously exhausted. and goten even states that it tires him out like he'd used all his energy at once.
	list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god


Nusu	Aug 6 2011, 02:15 PM Post #310
Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr. Posts: 5,541 Group: Member Member #4,999 Joined: July 1, 2010 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, Yu-Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, One Piece, Death Note, Yu-Yu Hakusho	Quote: How so? You just say that without explaining... just realized you were referring to the guy after me... Kamicolo landed a brown marshmallow when he met up with the Kaioshin. And no, I don't need to explain anything, if you watched the Boo Saga you should be aware of what I meant. Quote: Ah piccolo only forfeited the match because he though the kaio was some all powerful being, due to kami's influence on him. Nothing suggest East Kai was stronger,especially when he thought guys like cui, and dabura were uber powerful. When they first met east kai both goku and vegeta said they couldn't sense this guy power, yet Piccolo just ups and forfeits to him in tournament without even knowing how strong he was out of respect of knowing he is the supreme kai, due to Kami's influence/knowledge over him. I often got the impression kami was like a parasite eventually taking over piccolo's mind over the years lol...but that is another discussion. Obviously, you are ignoring the statement made by Kamicolo after he disqualified from the fight. Piccolo said that their dimensions are too different. The meaning of that was already explained by lunar there. No re-mentioning needed. Plus. I always find it amusing, how Piccolo fans, generally, say that he didn't fought the Kaioshin because he was a higher rank. While, the statement after the disqualification say's otherwise. The small conversation between Kuririn and Kamicolo indicates that perfectly. In other words, it is pure speculation, build upon no facts at all.
	Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one.


+ Clearin	Aug 6 2011, 02:15 PM Post #311
Posts: 12,580 Group: Elite Member Member #6,372 Joined: June 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country United Kingdom	Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…” Goku implies that Piccolo is the strongest of the absorbed people.



Nusu	Aug 6 2011, 02:21 PM Post #312
Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr. Posts: 5,541 Group: Member Member #4,999 Joined: July 1, 2010 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, Yu-Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, One Piece, Death Note, Yu-Yu Hakusho	Son Goten and Trunks were out of Ki, they were SSJ 3. They were completely drained.
	Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one.


lunar2	Aug 6 2011, 02:22 PM Post #313
Posts: 9,150 Group: Member Member #5,265 Joined: September 24, 2010 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime dragonball/z/gt/movies What Browser do you use? internet explorer or firefox	Teen GohanZ Aug 6 2011, 02:15 PM Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…” Goku implies that Piccolo is the strongest of the absorbed people. Chapter: 468 (DBZ 274), P12.7 Piccolo: “These two are our only hope…! Th-though it’s a faint hope…” Context: this is before Fusion is even mentioned piccolo rates the kids higher than himself... Chapter: 473 (DBZ 279), P2.1-6 Context: after Goten and Trunks turn into Super Saiyans Goku: “Alright! Now then, gather your ki up to your utmost limits. All the way full!” Trunks: “Hehe…Alrii—iight. Let’s freak ‘em out, Goten.” Goten: “Yeah…hihihi…” they power up Piccolo: “Gu…!” Goku: “Alright, so that’s full?” Goten: “Huh!?” Trunks: “Ye-yeah…” ... before he knows their full power. and goku's statement doesn't imply that piccolo is stronger than the kids at full power, only that he is stronger than them right then.
	list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god


+ Clearin	Aug 6 2011, 02:24 PM Post #314
Posts: 12,580 Group: Elite Member Member #6,372 Joined: June 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country United Kingdom	lunar2 Aug 6 2011, 02:22 PM Teen GohanZ Aug 6 2011, 02:15 PM Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…” Goku implies that Piccolo is the strongest of the absorbed people. Chapter: 468 (DBZ 274), P12.7 Piccolo: “These two are our only hope…! Th-though it’s a faint hope…” Context: this is before Fusion is even mentioned piccolo rates the kids higher than himself... Chapter: 473 (DBZ 279), P2.1-6 Context: after Goten and Trunks turn into Super Saiyans Goku: “Alright! Now then, gather your ki up to your utmost limits. All the way full!” Trunks: “Hehe…Alrii—iight. Let’s freak ‘em out, Goten.” Goten: “Yeah…hihihi…” they power up Piccolo: “Gu…!” Goku: “Alright, so that’s full?” Goten: “Huh!?” Trunks: “Ye-yeah…” ... before he knows their full power. and goku's statement doesn't imply that piccolo is stronger than the kids at full power, only that he is stronger than them right then. (About your last part) I know that I wasn't implying Piccolo > Kids at max power Anyway the Piccolo comment seems weird since the kids were clearly weaker than Fat Buu no matter what, so even if they're stronger than Piccolo it made no sense for him to say that...unless he had a plan like stick them in the RoSaT which is what I believe And weren't they at full power against Fat Buu? Piccolo saw them then, they just didn't let it all out at once right next to Piccolo. Edited by Clearin, Aug 6 2011, 02:25 PM.



Kruegs Outlandish	Aug 6 2011, 02:29 PM Post #315
Posts: 2,526 Group: Duplicate Member #6,436 Joined: July 1, 2011	Teen GohanZ Aug 6 2011, 02:15 PM Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…” Goku implies that Piccolo is the strongest of the absorbed people. He is. And now even that's being twisted by people who try to destroy a perfectly good point... Nusu how could an unconscious gohan suppress his power? and no, it was stated that the ssj3 fusion drained them. nothing convoluted at all. An unconscious one could not; one that knew he was being absorbed could... He could have lowered his power upon being covered by Buu's skin and could have been just as weak as Piccolo by the time of absorption if that was the case... at your quote, could they not have been talking about Gotenks being tired and not themselves? It's actually a good quote though, perhaps enough to state that it wasn't as convoluted as I thought; however, imo, that doesn't do enough for me. It would seem like it would not matter at all whether or not they were tired from fusion as to whether he could take however much power he wanted to from them. We disagree.



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