FPSSJGohan

Mar 13 2011, 05:36 PM

You guys are serious?

1. You're basically suggesting that mssj trades away power for stamina, and that it doesn't need that power anymore. What? If my math is right, 35 to 50 is about a 42 percent difference, based off of your 35 multiplier theory. 42 percent power different in DBZ is huge, enough for a one sided curbstomp. As shown in the SSJ Goku vs Freiza fight, SSJ's can hold their form for quite a long time, even Goku who had just turned SSJ for the first time. As show in numerous fights with even less than a 42 percent difference, the more powerful one of the 42 percent difference could wtf pwn the lower one without much difficulty at all.

Basically, the mssj form would be sacrificing more power than it gains with stamina. Most of the time in DBZ, power > stamina. The 42 percent stronger ssj would curbstomp an equal base mssj so fast that the mssj's extra stamina wouldn't have had time to matter. Basically, the fight would be too short for stamina to matter that much.

In other words, Goku and Gohan would have used regular ssj if the mssj multiplier was only 35, because the extra stamina simply isn't worth it in DBZ.

2. The argument about Goku being stronger than Piccolo in base is not only incorrect, it's a red herring. We're talking about Goten here, not Goku

3. Common sense that post Z sword training Gohan is stronger than buu saga Goku? ROFL are you kidding me?

That's complete conjecture. There's no evidence at all how powerful post Z sword and pre Elder Kai training Gohan is. None. No showings, no feats, and no statements other than a very vague zomg you've improved a lot. Gohan wasn't serious about being confident to face buu, that was an attempt out of desperation to try to make up for the situation. Goku's casual skepticism of this shows it.

The fact is that a few hours of training with a heavy sword does not make up for 7 years of not training or Goku training in the Otherworld for 7 years, likely with weights even heavier than the Z sword and in intensive gravity, against powerful sparring partners like Pikkon.

4. Common sense that post ROSAT Goten is stronger than buu saga Goku? You got to be kidding me. Seriously.

For one, that's complete conjecture. Complete conjecture. You clearly know this, given that you've come up with the evasive claim that it's common sense, without explaining your reasoning at all. We never see post ROSAT Goten or Trunks fighting non fused, so your point is completely unsupported.

Have you ever noticed that so many DBZ theories are complete speculation? Just random numbers and statements you pull out of your *****. Not just you, but many people. I'll be honest and say that my power level lists also contain some speculation, but I wouldn't argue for them if I don't have evidence backing them up.

You're saying that at the end of the buu saga, Goten and Trunks are stronger than Goku. ROFL. If so, then why was base Vegetto stronger than freaking ssj3 Gotenks by a lot? Sure, you could argue potara fusion and rival boosts all you want, but a rival boost is doubtful to boost them hundreds of times; Old Kai stated it as unimportant and an offhand remark, and Goku was not aware of the power of the potara fusion. He was going off of what he knew; fusion, and expecting him and Vegeta fusing to be powerful enough to beat buu. In buu's stomach, he suggests fusion excitedly.

Kamikaze Pyro

May 12 2011, 09:42 PM

Yeah, except that's a non-canon special and non-canon material is sort of known for messing up canon characters' strengths.

Bardock567

May 12 2011, 09:47 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

May 12 2011, 09:42 PM

Yeah, except that's a non-canon special and non-canon material is sort of known for messing up canon characters' strengths.

No the Anime is *****ing cannon.

http://www.pojo.com/dragonball/interviews/toriyama.shtml

So know what Goten > Gohan?. Thats what your saying. Gohan was'nt even trying against Goten thats why he did'nt hit him. And Piccolo Post ROSAT > Base Gohan Cell games and Gohan got weaker. Base Gohan > SSJ Post ROSAT Goten makes more sense.

And yes the anime is cannon get *****ing used two it.

Bardock567

May 12 2011, 09:47 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

May 12 2011, 09:42 PM

Yeah, except that's a non-canon special and non-canon material is sort of known for messing up canon characters' strengths.

No the Anime is *****ing cannon.

http://www.pojo.com/dragonball/interviews/toriyama.shtml

So know what Goten > Gohan?. Thats what your saying. Gohan was'nt even trying against Goten thats why he did'nt hit him. And Piccolo Post ROSAT > Base Gohan Cell games and Gohan got weaker. Base Gohan > SSJ Post ROSAT Goten makes more sense.

And yes the anime is cannon get *****ing used two it.

Saberoph

May 13 2011, 02:32 AM

Well the Manga says it all, Manga>Anime.

Saberoph

May 13 2011, 02:41 AM

I didn't say anything about that, so don't start that ***** with me.

Also I have said over and over that Gohan>Goten, bit very close. Don't twist my words again. And the Anime is completely inconsistent, where the Manga is more clear than the Anime, and the Anime siggests things the Manga says opposite. So again Manga>Anime.

Gogeta456

May 13 2011, 02:34 AM

Saberoph

May 13 2011, 02:32 AM

Well the Manga says it all, Manga>Anime.

No http://www.pojo.com/dragonball/interviews/toriyama.shtml The Anime is just as cannon as the manga. Also the Manga does show Piccolo can beat the Kids. You just keep saying Goten > Gohan which makes no *****ing sense Gohan was *****ing going easy on Goten, Shut the hell up with this Cherry picking crap Gohan is a pacifist not a fighting type Goku even said that so did Piccolo so of course hes gonna *****ing hold back and not even hit his 7 year old little brother. Whats next Base Goten > Perfect Cell?. Check my IP and youll see im not a *****ing dupe. Stop accusing me of stuff.

Kamikaze Pyro

May 13 2011, 02:45 AM

Gogeta456

May 13 2011, 02:34 AM

Saberoph

May 13 2011, 02:32 AM

Well the Manga says it all, Manga>Anime.

No http://www.pojo.com/dragonball/interviews/toriyama.shtml The Anime is just as cannon as the manga. Also the Manga does show Piccolo can beat the Kids. You just keep saying Goten > Gohan which makes no *****ing sense Gohan was *****ing going easy on Goten, Shut the hell up with this Cherry picking crap Gohan is a pacifist not a fighting type Goku even said that so did Piccolo so of course hes gonna *****ing hold back and not even hit his 7 year old little brother. Whats next Base Goten > Perfect Cell?. Check my IP and youll see im not a *****ing dupe. Stop accusing me of stuff.

You apparently pick and choose which posts you want to read otherwise you'd have seen me ask the other guy the same thing I'm going to ask you. Try to find that canon question in any official interview. Please, go ahead. Use whatever resources you have at your disposal to find it. I'm betting you can't because that interview doesn't exist. Some of those questions do but they're from different interviews all mixed up into one. That canon question is completely made up.

Also, calm down with the swearing. Even if you're not a dupe, which I highly think you are, you sure are acting like the other guy and your post is practically copy-pasted from his.

Gogeta456

May 13 2011, 02:45 AM

Saberoph

May 13 2011, 02:41 AM

I didn't say anything about that, so don't start that ***** with me.

Also I have said over and over that Gohan>Goten, bit very close. Don't twist my words again. And the Anime is completely inconsistent, where the Manga is more clear than the Anime, and the Anime siggests things the Manga says opposite. So again Manga>Anime.

No your clamming Gohan was going hard on Goten when Gohan didint even *****ing hit him which shows use Gohan was going easy on Goten. You clam Gohan was going hard so then your saying *****ing Goten > Gohan. Anime = Manga Toriyama says it right here http://www.pojo.com/dragonball/interviews/toriyama.shtml. The Kids are *****ing untrained Super Saiyans and lose to Piccolo in the manga. And get there asses kicked badly very badly in the anime.

Gogeta456

May 13 2011, 02:47 AM

Kamikaze Pyro

May 13 2011, 02:45 AM

Gogeta456

May 13 2011, 02:34 AM

Saberoph

May 13 2011, 02:32 AM

Well the Manga says it all, Manga>Anime.

No http://www.pojo.com/dragonball/interviews/toriyama.shtml The Anime is just as cannon as the manga. Also the Manga does show Piccolo can beat the Kids. You just keep saying Goten > Gohan which makes no *****ing sense Gohan was *****ing going easy on Goten, Shut the hell up with this Cherry picking crap Gohan is a pacifist not a fighting type Goku even said that so did Piccolo so of course hes gonna *****ing hold back and not even hit his 7 year old little brother. Whats next Base Goten > Perfect Cell?. Check my IP and youll see im not a *****ing dupe. Stop accusing me of stuff.

You apparently pick and choose which posts you want to read otherwise you'd have seen me ask the other guy the same thing I'm going to ask you. Try to find that canon question in any official interview. Please, go ahead. Use whatever resources you have at your disposal to find it. I'm betting you can't because that interview doesn't exist. Some of those questions do but they're from different interviews all mixed up into one. That canon question is completely made up.

Also, calm down with the swearing. Even if you're not a dupe, which I highly think you are, you sure are acting like the other guy and your post is practically copy-pasted from his.

Lame escuse man this is a interview from Toriyama dont like Piccolo *****ing winning then deal with it.

Im not a *****ing dupe your the one accusing me of being a dupe so of course im going to be *****ing pissed.

Quote:

 

Im not a *****ing dupe your the one accusing me of being a dupe so of course im going to be *****ing pissed.