ILLusioNaire

Mar 16 2011, 03:34 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Mar 16 2011, 06:05 AM

ILLusioNaire

Mar 16 2011, 06:00 AM

Okay. And these statements are...fetchable?

Chapter: 392 (DBZ 198), P13.1-5
Goku: “Hey… Piccolo! Did you go in the Room of Spirit and Time?”
Piccolo: “Indeed.”
Goku: “I can tell! You’ve risen to an entirely different level.”
Piccolo: “…Why don’t you just be frank with me? I’ve grown stronger, but even, it won’t do any good against Cell…”
Goku: “…Yeah, it won’t do any good.”
Piccolo: “Hmph…You really were frank…”

Piccolo admits he won't do any good against Cell. We know Super Saiyan Grade 2 Vegeta was nothing compared to Cell. Grade 3 Trunks had a power advantage, as stated by Cell, but his speed was crap and he was unable to affect Cell. We know Piccolo's speed was in line with his power so he couldn't have been around Grade 3 Trunks or he would've been confident in defeating Cell.

Chapter: 395 (DBZ 201), P13.5
Context: after Goku says he’ll fight first
Vegeta: “Do want you want. Either way, I’ll be the one to finish this…”

Vegeta is confident he can defeat the Cell he faced that stomped him earlier, which also puts him above 50% Mastered Super Saiyan Goku.

From this, we can deduce that Piccolo was somewhere around Super Saiyan Grade 2 Vegeta, who was nothing compared to Cell, as Piccolo stated he was, who Vegeta after his second ROSAT trip felt he could defeat.

No doubt those quotes are true. However, before Piccolo had completed his training in the CoSaT Goku had went and checked Cell out to see how he would fair. Obviously, Goku was not scared of Cell's suppressed level, because Goku knew what he himself was capable of. He knew that Cell was harboring untold, unimaginable power; that's why he told Piccolo he wouln't do any good against Cell. It's not that he wouldn't be able to take on Cell's suppressed level, it's Cell's higher levels yet unseen that Goku was alluding to.

And if all Vegeta planned to use was Super Saiyan, then that means that his Super Saiyan form was passed 50% MSSjin Goku, making Piccolo close to that. Piccolo could probably take on Complete Cell [suppressed].

duli

Mar 17 2011, 12:29 AM

Umm no Gohan. Piccolo may have been USS Grade 1 level during the Cell saga, but he got weaker over the break. At this point I'd put him at Android 16 level. He's very weak after the gap. Goten and Trunks are progidies; they were able to achieve Super Saiyan before puberty. They are exceptional, and while it's irrational that they became that much stronger after only a week, they did it. Akira can be very irrational (The fact that the kids are MSS is an example.) and he made the kids far surpass their old limits at this point.

Quote:

 

In order to defeat Majin Buu, who boasted absolute strength, Goku taught Fusion to Goten and Trunks as a last resort, and thus Gotenks was born. After several failures, they finally succeeded in merging together. The two entered the Room of Spirit and Time, and hurriedly trained as Gotenks. As a result, Gotenks leveled up so much that his strength surpassed Vegeta and the others. However, they were taken in by Buu, who had powered up by absorbing the good portion of himself.

Quote:

 

Born on Planet Vegeta, in the year Age 737. Height: 175 cm, Weight: 62 kg. His real name is Kakarot. Though born as the second son of the low-class warrior Bardock, he is sent to Earth immediately before Planet Vegeta's destruction. On Earth, he loses his memory due to an unforeseen accident, and Grandpa Son Gohan raises him as if he were his own child. Being a Saiyan, his battle ability is high, and he has exceptional talent as a martial artist. He learns kung-fu from Grandpa Gohan. He lived alone following his grandpa's death, but when Bulma appeared he began an unknown adventure. She appreciated his strength, and so they set out on a journey to gather the dragonballs, which ultimately led to him meeting his master Kame-sennin, his good rivals Krillin, Piccolo, and Vegeta, and many others, and together with his friends he grew up. His first battle where death was on the line was against Piccolo Daimao, but he managed to win with his natural talent, never-say-never spirit, and the help of his friends. Afterwards, the setting of his battles surpassed the level of the Tenkaichi Budoukai, and took on a cosmic scope. He came to fight with strong opponents such as Freeza and Majin Buu, which never failed to stir up his Saiyan blood. After marrying Chi Chi and having a son named Gohan, he took Gohan to Kame House, where he learned that he was a Saiyan from Raditz, who claimed to be his older brother. He died for the first time fighting Raditz, and later died during the battle with Cell when Cell self-destructed. By continuing to appear even while dead, and by being restored to life even after dying, he always kept on being at the center of the story. Currently, he is right in the middle of training Uub.

Quote:

 

Born on Planet Vegeta in Age 732. Born as the son of the king, he was blessed with a talent for battle. His home planet was destroyed by Freeza while he was off invading planets as Freeza's underling. After the death of Raditz, he learned of the existence of the dragonballs, which grant any wish, and headed for Earth. A violent battle unfolded between him, Goku and the others. On Planet Namek, Freeza's attack caused him to shed tears for the first time, and he died. After being revived, he ended up together with Bulma for some reason. When Cell attacked, he fought as a warrior of Earth along with Goku and the others. During the battle with Majin Buu, he tried to save the Earth by self-destructing, but ultimately destroyed only himself. After his revival, like always he trains every day in order to become stronger.

FPSSJGohan

Mar 2 2011, 02:46 AM

Piccolo in the buu saga is likely stronger than assj Vegeta. Piccolo wins easily. But oh, you guys aren't going to argue that pre ROSAT Goten at 7 years old is more powerful than a post rosat Vegeta with assj and decades of training, are you?

Even high end Goten took on Android 18. Piccolo in the buu saga could likely curbstomp semi perfect cell.

Does anybody have any evidence suggesting that SSJ Goten is even enough to annoy Piccolo?

Before you go with saiyans in base > Piccolo in buu saga, that isn't true, and even if it was it doesn't apply to Goten and Trunks. If it didn't, then that would mean that Goten >>>>> Gohan, who got weaker over the 7 years. Obviously that isn't true.