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Majin Vegeta Vs Lssj broly (movie 10); Who would win this fight?
Topic Started: Feb 7 2011, 08:41 AM (14,285 Views)
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I'm surprised this is still open when it's gone off topic way to many times.

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I doubt he'd go "HIT ME BABY!" towards a gigantic energy attack. At the least, he'd put up a chi shield


Thats exactly what he did in Movie 10 because he knew he'd die if he got hit. He can sense energy as you say.

Him tanking Goku's Kamehameha is explainable because Broly knew Goku was weaker.

But the family Kamehameha was stronger than him, explaining why he put up a shield and couldn't stop the wave and/or get off of it.

(That was directed at you Necifix)



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Saberoph
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NeciFiX
Feb 21 2011, 07:14 AM
I never use Broly's defeats in my arguments simply because they're unfair to his previous feats of strength. By unfair, I mean, hugely unfair.

Broly toppled SSj2 Gohan with little effort in three hits. I think that's pretty impressive. Piccolo said SSj2 Majin Vegeta *might* have surpassed SSj2 Chibi Gohan at the Cell Games when he was beating down Fat Boo. I'll agree that he did (and by good margin), but, the fact that Piccolo said *might*, one can infer it wasn't huge. Add onto the fact that I don't put Gohan as more than 20-25% weaker, at most, than his younger self... then, well, how could Vegeta, who is maybe 50-60% more powerful than SSj2 Teen Gohan kill Broly? He couldn't. Broly was DOMINATING SSj2 Teen Gohan. Yes, Gohan was able to pull away from him. And? A direct hit to Broly's face did nothing.

The only reason he pulled away was because Broly was caught off guard by the fact that Gohan maneuvered himself just enough to knee Broly in the face. The knee itself showed no physical damage to Broly, it only pissed him off. I don't know about you, but, to me, that doesn't really seem like Gohan is putting up that impressive of a fight.

I'll give you that SSj2 Vegeta or Goku would put up a decent fight, but, would they have any hope of winning? Hell no. This is how I think of it:

LSSj Broly (movie 10) is roughly 90-100% stronger than SSj2 Teen Gohan. Provided his strength and power level losses, this, to me, isn't unfair. He messed Gohan up pretty good in just three hits. I put SSj2 Goku or Majin Vegeta at around 60-65% more powerful than SSj2 Teen Gohan. This makes Broly around 25-40% more powerful than them individually. Just my opinion, I'm sure you disagree.

My perspective on this, I'm sure, is much different than yours. Having read the entire Dragonball Z manga and debated stuff like this to death, Broly KOing SSj2 Teen Gohan in three hits is more than impressive and proves his zenkai was significant and he outshadows his previous movie 8 self.

Add onto that, the LSSj form is pretty much perfect in terms of the fact that instead of losing chi, Broly gains chi, effectively recovering any chi losses from battle wounds... I honestly see no possible way, even if Goku or Vegeta fired a huge attack at Broly, that he'd lose.

If Broly tried to tank it, I'm sure he'd be badly hurt, but, again, I strongly believe he has a significant power advantage and it wouldn't kill him.

Meanwhile, SSj2 Goku and Vegeta would be fried out from the fight, maintaining the SSj2 form and the huge attack, that Broly, despite being wounded, could kill them. It'd be similar to how Vegeta came back after being hit by the genki dama in the Saiyan Saga, and despite being badly injured, still could have killed everyone with ease (if, obviously, of course, Gohan hadn't turned into a great ape and landed on him, but, I don't see how that would happen in this scenario, lmao). And I don't think Broly would be as wounded as Vegeta was by the genki dama anyway. That ***** wrecked his day.

Broly can sense chi, which I once adamantly debated against, I doubt he'd go "HIT ME BABY!" towards a gigantic energy attack. At the least, he'd put up a chi shield, or just side-step it... which he could easily do, given that Broly's speed in LSSj is proportionate to his strength, and, with his significant advantage in that field, he'd also be significantly faster.

I understand that you'll disagree no matter what Saberoph, and arguing will do no good, as frankly, Broly's messed up. I tried to prove something in my huge ***** post, but, what I only did was sort of set up a parameter on his potential power.

Most people agreed on that Broly in movie 10 should be at least, the absolute bare minimum, as strong as Super Perfect Cell, and his absolute maximum at about Mr. Boo. Given Broly's feats, I put him much closer to the latter. It's all opinion though.
You do know the family Kamehameha was powered by three SS', Majin Vegeta is SS2, that's a big gap. It sounds like your just trying all you can to keep pushing your opinion that Broli is stronger than ALL SS2's.

The power of the Family Kamehameha is Huge, I am not denying that but it's still weaker than Majin Vegeta. Besides since this is a movie I can use any dub, and it's just as creditable as the movie. In the anime Vegeta says Goku is stronger than Gohan was against Cell, and later Piccolo says the same when Vegeta is fight Boo.

So in Movie 10, we have MSS and SS2 Gohan at-least 30% weaker than his Cell Games self, then Goten equal to Gohan, then MSS Goku who is stronger than his Cell Games counterpart, but to put him beyond Perfect Cell's (Non SPC) power is insane and wouldn't make any sense what so ever. If we were to go by anything then we should go by Boo arc MSS Goku, so with that it's fair to put MSS Goku higher than his Cell Games self, but not equal to full power Perfect Cell.

So then we have 30% weaker MSS Gohan, SS Goten equal to Gohan, then MSS Goku who is stronger than his Cell Games self, but not insanely more powerful either (Putting Goku's MSS equal to any SS2 level is just stupid). We now all three firing a Kamehameha, and that's suppose to be stronger than Majin Vegeta, but not stronger than his Final Flash? That's crazy to put it higher than Majin Vegeta.
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Quote:
 
You do know the family Kamehameha was powered by three SS', Majin Vegeta is SS2, that's a big gap. It sounds like your just trying all you can to keep pushing your opinion that Broli is stronger than ALL SS2's.


They shot three Kamehameha´s combined into one Kamehameha, plus did they power it up not once but twice. Why is it not enough for Vegeta? There is no accurate power-statement by Akira nor Toei. And there are two statements of how strong Vegeta is, we can only assume what Akira meant with it. So, in Neci´s case, his opinion isn´t flawed or dumb at all.

Quote:
 
The power of the Family Kamehameha is Huge, I am not denying that but it's still weaker than Majin Vegeta. Besides since this is a movie I can use any dub, and it's just as creditable as the movie. In the anime Vegeta says Goku is stronger than Gohan was against Cell, and later Piccolo says the same when Vegeta is fight Boo


How do you know that for sure? It´s three Kamehameha´s combined into one big Kamehameha, plus they don´t pushed it with their power once but twice as said before. Vegeta was the only one who said, he is stronger then Gohan, Piccolo wasn´t even sure himself were to put Vegeta´s power and said "might", and not "is".

Quote:
 
So in Movie 10, we have MSS and SS2 Gohan at-least 30% weaker than his Cell Games self, then Goten equal to Gohan, then MSS Goku who is stronger than his Cell Games counterpart, but to put him beyond Perfect Cell's (Non SPC) power is insane and wouldn't make any sense what so ever. If we were to go by anything then we should go by Boo arc MSS Goku, so with that it's fair to put MSS Goku higher than his Cell Games self, but not equal to full power Perfect Cell.


When did Neci said that? He did not say that Goku is on par with Perfect Cell on Full Power. Frankly, there is no accurate statement that would support that, nor is their evidence, though, there is the "fact" that Goku is stronger then Kid Gohan was during the Cell Games, Goku is on par with Vegeta considering this we don´t know by how much they are stronger, then Kid Gohan.

Quote:
 
So then we have 30% weaker MSS Gohan, SS Goten equal to Gohan, then MSS Goku who is stronger than his Cell Games self, but not insanely more powerful either (Putting Goku's MSS equal to any SS2 level is just stupid). We now all three firing a Kamehameha, and that's suppose to be stronger than Majin Vegeta, but not stronger than his Final Flash? That's crazy to put it higher than Majin Vegeta.


Not at all. For instant, it could be stronger then Vegeta but weaker then Final Flash of him, still enough to kill or badly hurt him.

Sorry that i get into your debate Neci (I hope you don´t mind.).
Edited by Nusu, Feb 21 2011, 01:52 PM.
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Well for one I wasn't saying Neci said Goku was on par with Perfect Cell, I just said it's fair to say that. Especially since Goku was able to go SS2 and SS3 in otherworld, I mean IMO Goku would have to at-least be equal with Cell Games MSS Gohan (The reason why I say that is because that's the MSS level where we first see SS2, so I say it's pretty fair to make that the starting point), then when Goku goes SS2, it's obvious that MSS would get stronger too, also for SS3 too. So from my POV it seems pretty fair and logical to make Boo arc MSS Goku equal to Full Power Perfect Cell.

Also notice, I have said I find it crazy that the Family Kamehameha would be enough to kill Vegeta, but I never said it would be crazy if it was equal to Majin Vegeta when he first transforms. If it was the Family Kamehameha, I look at it as one of those attacks if it fails to kill or defeat the enemy in some way or misses, then they are screwed. I see it as an attack that they can only use once...I just don't see them using and it not draining over half of their energy.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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Saberoph
Feb 21 2011, 02:01 PM
Well for one I wasn't saying Neci said Goku was on par with Perfect Cell, I just said it's fair to say that. Especially since Goku was able to go SS2 and SS3 in otherworld, I mean IMO Goku would have to at-least be equal with Cell Games MSS Gohan (The reason why I say that is because that's the MSS level where we first see SS2, so I say it's pretty fair to make that the starting point), then when Goku goes SS2, it's obvious that MSS would get stronger too, also for SS3 too. So from my POV it seems pretty fair and logical to make Boo arc MSS Goku equal to Full Power Perfect Cell.

Also notice, I have said I find it crazy that the Family Kamehameha would be enough to kill Vegeta, but I never said it would be crazy if it was equal to Majin Vegeta when he first transforms. If it was the Family Kamehameha, I look at it as one of those attacks if it fails to kill or defeat the enemy in some way or misses, then they are screwed. I see it as an attack that they can only use once...I just don't see them using and it not draining over half of their energy.
I would put SSJ Goku (Boo Arc) stronger then Kid Gohan MSSJ and Powered Up Perfect Cell, but still weaker then Full Power Perfect Cell. But it is your opinion, so, yeah, i won´t debate that.


but it's still weaker than Majin Vegeta

I don´t get you now? Now you say that it is equal to Majin Vegeta, even though before that, you said it is not.
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Quote:
 
I would put SSJ Goku (Boo Arc) stronger then Kid Gohan MSSJ and Powered Up Perfect Cell, but still weaker then Full Power Perfect Cell. But it is your opinion, so, yeah, i won´t debate that.


I could see that too, because it's stronger than his Cell Games self but not too much stronger where it would be stupid strong.

Quote:
 
but it's still weaker than Majin Vegeta

I don´t get you now? Now you say that it is equal to Majin Vegeta, even though before that, you said it is not.


Yes I did say that, but I'm just saying I wouldn't find it crazy if it was equal to Just Transforming SS2 Vegeta(And yes I did mean SS2 not Majin), but could only see that being the maximum. I'm not changing my opinion, just went more in-depth about it this time.

Like the final boost of the Family Kamehameha being equal to Just Transforming SS2 Vegeta, I mean you know there would be power-ups at some-point. But not overpowering nor equal to 100% Majin Vegeta.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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Saberoph
Feb 21 2011, 02:25 PM
Quote:
 
I would put SSJ Goku (Boo Arc) stronger then Kid Gohan MSSJ and Powered Up Perfect Cell, but still weaker then Full Power Perfect Cell. But it is your opinion, so, yeah, i won´t debate that.


I could see that too, because it's stronger than his Cell Games self but not too much stronger where it would be stupid strong.

Quote:
 
but it's still weaker than Majin Vegeta

I don´t get you now? Now you say that it is equal to Majin Vegeta, even though before that, you said it is not.


Yes I did say that, but I'm just saying I wouldn't find it crazy if it was equal to Just Transforming SS2 Vegeta(And yes I did mean SS2 not Majin), but could only see that being the maximum. I'm not changing my opinion, just went more in-depth about it this time.

Like the final boost of the Family Kamehameha being equal to Just Transforming SS2 Vegeta, I mean you know there would be power-ups at some-point. But not overpowering nor equal to 100% Majin Vegeta.
The Kamehameha is in my opinion strong enough to do it. I would find it also silly, when it was just Goten and Gohan, but with Goku in it, it gives it quite a boost in power.
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I'm not denying with Goku it was a HUGE power increase. But i'm just placing the Family Kamehameha between Cell Games SS2 Gohan and Majin Vegeta. I place it there because I also place SS2 Vegeta pre-Majin there, MUCH stronger than SS2 Cell Games Gohan, but not strong enough to take on SS2 Goku.

I do see where your coming from with your opinion, and that's kool.
Edited by Saberoph, Feb 21 2011, 02:57 PM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
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Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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I wouldn't place Vegeta pre-Majin a great deal above Cell Games Gohan. He still felt the need to question if he could win or not, so he obviously wasn't 100% sure, although he was sure he could beat him overall.
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Yea I know that, I would place him a decent bit above Cell Games Gohan, but weak enough to doubt his power to Goku's.

In other words, powerful enough to completely toy with SS2 Cell Games Gohan, but weak enough for Goku to toy with Vegeta.

Yes I place the gap between Cell Games SS2 Gohan and Boo arc SS2 Goku.
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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No, I mean Vegeta questioned his superiority to Gohan, not Goku. He was confident he could win, but not entirely confident of his power.
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wait, when did he question that with Gohan?
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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Chapter: 426 (DBZ 232), P4.2-3
Vegeta: “At that time there was a large gap between our powers…But what about now? While you’ve been enjoying peace, I’ve continued to train.”

For him to even question it, he must not be completely 100% confident.
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How do you know Vegeta wasn't more powerful, that statement can be taken more than one way.

Also that just might be his way of telling Gohan he's more than surpassed him.
Edited by Saberoph, Feb 21 2011, 06:45 PM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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The point that he already question´s it is weird, he saw Gohan´s power. Gohan was his goal after Goku died, why does he not just say "You are no match for me anymore" instead of "What about now?". Vegeta had a long road to go, he needed to master the SSJ, surpassing Goku in power, surpassing Gohan in power and reaching the SSJ 2. If he is surpass it, why does he question his superiorness?
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