Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Rotation Advertisements



We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum.


If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away.


Click here to Register!

If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk


If you're already a member please log in to your account:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Base Gotenks ( Post ) > SSJ Gotenks ( Pre )
Topic Started: Nov 24 2010, 12:39 AM (582 Views)
p123
Default Avatar


After Super Buu's arrival...


Gohan : At this rate their won't be an Earth to save!


Krillen: Huh? They are not going to fight now?


Piccolo : Can't you tell that fusion hasn't been enough yet? Tell them to train as hard as they can, or prepare to die young!


Piccolo : In every way he is more powerful still.


Piccolo : Your mother can return to life with the dragonballs. But only if you and Trunks can beat Boo!! It won't happen this way!! Train now or wish her goodbye!!!



Trunks : We can beat him now for sure!!! ( After Goten talks about reaching a level beyond SSJ )


Trunks: I think we have improved enough to be even with Buu with regular fusion.


Piccolo : What, why aren't they starting out as Super Saiyans?



Gotenks : Fool, do you imagine I'm the the same foe you met before? Prepare to learn how very different I am!!


Piccolo : He does seem different!!! They've powered up hugely !!! This may suceed !!!


Gotenks: But that, should've level him, he's just trying to look tough.








As we can see....


Super Buu > SSJ Gotenks


Then both Trunks/Piccolo imply


Super Buu <=> Base Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks


We later find out that Super Buu is actually much stronger than anyone though, much stronger than Base Gotenks and much stronger than SSJ Gotenks.



But as we can see Krillen had a hard time reading Super Buu's ki. Logically as stated before, Buu, has an abnormal ki, which is hard to read. So thus, it's an understimation of Super Buu, and not an overestimation of Gotenks.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Pyrus
Member Avatar


Piccolo still facepalmed and said it was hopeless when Base Gotenks got raped.

Quote:
 
Dabra and Babidi thought Pui Pui could beat the base Saiyans. Pui Pui gets destroyed rather easily...
Conclusion: Dabra & Babidi can't sense ki properly.

It's actually funny, here is a guide to when the Z fighters lost their ability to sense ki!

1) Super Buu powers up after he absorbed Mr. Buu.
Krillin doesn't sense this humoungous power up and thinks, Gotenks still stand a chance, which Piccolo confirms he doesn't.
Conclusion: Krillin can't sense ki properly.
From there it just goes to hell...

2) Gohan powers up in the Kaioshin realm.
Neither Piccolo, Trunks or Krillin are able to sense it. But Super Buu are considering his statement, after he has been beaten up by Gohan.
Conclusion: Neither Piccolo, Trunks or Krillin are able to sense ki, that otherwise reaches Super Buu.
Meaning, no one but Super Buu is able to sense ki properly.

3) Gotenks is formed and both he and Piccolo states he has become much stronger and that he is able to beat Super Buu.
Gotenks gets destroyed and Piccolo claims it's hopeless and does a facepalm.
Conclusion: Neither Piccolo or Gotenks are able to sense ki properly, so any statements they make about ki are to be taken with a grain of salt.

4) Once again Gohan powers up in the Kaioshin realm.
Neither Piccolo, Goten or Trunks are able to sense it, but Super Buu likely is considering his statement after getting beat up.
Conclusion: Neither Piccolo, Goten or Trunks are able to sense ki properly, but Super Buu is!

5) Dende has been alive the whole time.
Only Gohan senses him at first, then Piccolo gets his ki sensing abilities again and can sense him as well.
Conclusion: Piccolo is now able to sense the weak ki Dende is outputting, which he couldn't do before. But Gohan didn't need for somebody to tell him for him to know.

6) Super Buu absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo.
Gohan is confident in beating him.
Gohan gets destroyed.
Conclusion: Gohan is now suddenly unable to sense ki properly.

7) Kaioshin and Kibito fuses by the use of Potara.
"Kibitoshin" thinks he is useful, Old Kaioshin says he is not.
Conclusion: "Kibitoshin" because of being a failed fusion, has now only gone down in terms of ki sensing and can't tell ki properly.

8) Goku's only option is to fuse with Mr. Satan and he almost does it.
Mr. Satan is the weakest Z fighter to ever live.
Conclusion: Goku is stupid and can't sense ki properly.

9) Vegetto goes Super Vegetto.
Buuhan thinks he can take him.
Buuhan gets destroyed.
Conclusion: Buuhan can't sense ki properly, presumably because of Gohan.

10) Super Buu reverts to Kid Buu.
Vegeta and Goku think they can take him.
Kid Buu makes an unstoppable attack, that destroys Earth, Piccolo, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Tenshinhan and Chaozu.
Both Goku and Vegeta later on admits, they underestimated Kid Buu.
Conclusion: Goku and Vegeta can't sense ki properly.

11) Mr. Satan challenges Kid Buu.
Mr. Satan gets destroyed.
Conclusion: Mr. Satan can't sense ki. AT ALL!!!

12) Vegeta has been revived and challenges Kid Buu again, this time however he is doing it in BASE.
Conclusion: Vegeta is a *****tard, as always.


In conclusion, actions speak louder than words in the Boo Arc, apparently.
Edited by Pyrus, Nov 24 2010, 04:00 AM.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
p123
Default Avatar


Dude you have to read this stuff. I mean how people come up with logic like this is beyond me.

This is from

DBGTFO from Daizex. Me and him generally have an agreeance on a lot of views. But he has extreme bias to base saiyan strength. Look what happens all of you Gotenks haters, when your bias is so strong it ruins your sense of common sense...



This quote is from DBGTFO

Dabra and Babidi thought Pui Pui could beat the base Saiyans. Pui Pui gets destroyed rather easily...
Conclusion: Dabra & Babidi can't sense ki properly.

It's actually funny, here is a guide to when the Z fighters lost their ability to sense ki!

1) Super Buu powers up after he absorbed Mr. Buu.
Krillin doesn't sense this humoungous power up and thinks, Gotenks still stand a chance, which Piccolo confirms he doesn't.
Conclusion: Krillin can't sense ki properly.
From there it just goes to hell...

2) Gohan powers up in the Kaioshin realm.
Neither Piccolo, Trunks or Krillin are able to sense it. But Super Buu are considering his statement, after he has been beaten up by Gohan.
Conclusion: Neither Piccolo, Trunks or Krillin are able to sense ki, that otherwise reaches Super Buu.
Meaning, no one but Super Buu is able to sense ki properly.

3) Gotenks is formed and both he and Piccolo states he has become much stronger and that he is able to beat Super Buu.
Gotenks gets destroyed and Piccolo claims it's hopeless and does a facepalm.
Conclusion: Neither Piccolo or Gotenks are able to sense ki properly, so any statements they make about ki are to be taken with a grain of salt.

4) Once again Gohan powers up in the Kaioshin realm.
Neither Piccolo, Goten or Trunks are able to sense it, but Super Buu likely is considering his statement after getting beat up.
Conclusion: Neither Piccolo, Goten or Trunks are able to sense ki properly, but Super Buu is!

5) Dende has been alive the whole time.
Only Gohan senses him at first, then Piccolo gets his ki sensing abilities again and can sense him as well.
Conclusion: Piccolo is now able to sense the weak ki Dende is outputting, which he couldn't do before. But Gohan didn't need for somebody to tell him for him to know.

6) Super Buu absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo.
Gohan is confident in beating him.
Gohan gets destroyed.
Conclusion: Gohan is now suddenly unable to sense ki properly.

7) Kaioshin and Kibito fuses by the use of Potara.
"Kibitoshin" thinks he is useful, Old Kaioshin says he is not.
Conclusion: "Kibitoshin" because of being a failed fusion, has now only gone down in terms of ki sensing and can't tell ki properly.

8) Goku's only option is to fuse with Mr. Satan and he almost does it.
Mr. Satan is the weakest Z fighter to ever live.
Conclusion: Goku is stupid and can't sense ki properly.

9) Vegetto goes Super Vegetto.
Buuhan thinks he can take him.
Buuhan gets destroyed.
Conclusion: Buuhan can't sense ki properly, presumably because of Gohan.

10) Super Buu reverts to Kid Buu.
Vegeta and Goku think they can take him.
Kid Buu makes an unstoppable attack, that destroys Earth, Piccolo, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Tenshinhan and Chaozu.
Both Goku and Vegeta later on admits, they underestimated Kid Buu.
Conclusion: Goku and Vegeta can't sense ki properly.

11) Mr. Satan challenges Kid Buu.
Mr. Satan gets destroyed.
Conclusion: Mr. Satan can't sense ki. AT ALL!!!

12) Vegeta has been revived and challenges Kid Buu again, this time however he is doing it in BASE.
Conclusion: Vegeta is a *bleep*tard, as always.

Do you understand my reasoning now?







As you can see, you know what I don't have to say anything. This is Daizex, I thought these guys were knowledgable? ROFL.


Here is my response.


Oh wait, here is the mod Kaboom. WTF Kaboom? I like both of these guys , but really ???

Excellent post, dbgtFO. All that sort of stuff is why feats take clear precedence for me in approaching the Majin Boo arc, with statements only secondary. Actions speak louder than words.



And that's Kabooms words the mod over at Daizex. Like I said, Daizex standing as one of the most knowledgable forums is definitley not shown in this issue.


And finally my response.


Lol that is by far the funniest thing I think I ever heard. You seriously can't be serious with that can you? Your entire theory basically consists of characters who by the way have been noted to all have very excellent ki sensing abilities, for no apparent reason cannot sense ki anymore? This is a bit ridicolous that all of the characters apparently don't know what they are talking about don't you? Geez man.... I know you jumped through a lot of hoops and twisted logic around but here is the simple approach.


Piccolo is able to accurately sense that SSJ2 Majin Vegeta is stronger than SSJ2 Kid Gohan.

Vegeta is able to accurately sense that Teen Gohan is weaker than Kid Gohan.Vegeta is able to accurately sense that SSJ2 Goku is stronger than SSj2 Kid Gohan.

Trunks is able to accurately sense that SSJ2 Goku is just as strong as his father who was SSJ2 Majin Vegeta.


As we can see, the Z fighter's are able to accurately sense other Z fighters.




Vegeta laughs off Fat Buu's power. Goku pretty much agrees on the weakness of Buu, but he says there's something more, theres something Vegeta isn't getting, and that Buu gives off an ABNORMAL KI.


Super Buu powers up after he absorbs Good Buu.

Kuririn thinks SSJ Gotenks has a chance. Piccolo confirms he doesn't.

Conclusion : Kuririn is having a hard time reading Super Buu. Kuririn somehow forgetting how to read all Z fighters previously is a ridicolous notion honestly, and your much better than this.


Gohan powers up in the Kaioshin Realm.

No one notices the power up accept for Super Buu. Who is sitting down doing nothing watching the hour glass biding his time waiting to fight. Meanwhile the Z fighters are in a state of panic, Super Buu has found them, and wants to fight Gotenks, who isn't ready yet, and Super Buu has killed nearly everyone on the planet. The z fighter's are a little busy at the moment and have the biggest threat ever known to them directly in front of them. They are trying to buy time, and are not sitting looking at an hourglass with nothing on there mind. We see plenty of times when distracted with bigger issues, people can overlook others. Piccolo shows this as Cell appears on him un sense while Piccolo is fighting 17. Piccolo says he was too distracted to paid attention and nothing suggest Cell was suppressing as he flew over there in a mad dash to get there as quickly as possible.

Point being, it is possible to not be able to sense a ki when distracted. This is definitley the more realistic option then all Z fighters losing their sense for no apparent reason. Jesus man, really? Wow... You go all these lengths for this twisted logic wow.


Gotenks is formed , Piccolo/Trunks/Gotenks are all confident that Base Gotenks has a chance against Super Buu. All parties are aware that SSJ Gotenks Pre Rosat had no chance against Super Buu. Since there is no reason why the fighters cannot sense each other, Base Gotenks is an improvement over SSJ Gotenks Pre Rosat in power. Later we see that Base Gotenks and even SSJ Gotenks has no chance against Super Buu.

Conclusion: Piccolo/Trunks now join Kuririn is not being able to read Super Buu properly. Kuririn was off more than Piccolo, but Piccolo and Trunks are pretty close. Trunks thinks they would be even with Super Buu, and Piccolo thinks that Base Gotenks might have a chance. So it's varying estimates between all of the Z fighters. Piccolo so far is the best one. Trunks the second most accurate, and Kuririn off by the most, although logically it's just their unability to sense Buu's abnormal ki, and nothing suggests they are having trouble sensing each other.


Gohan powers up again in the Kaioshin realm. No one senses him, accept for Super Buu. Once again, the fighters are fighting the strongest villian in the known universe. They are distracted.

Evidence : Piccolo is not able to sense Dende until later. Piccolo didn't just get his abilities back from some magical being. He just wasn't paying attention to anything other than the battle at hand. There is no reason for him to concentrate his efforts on anything other than Super Buu vs SSJ3 Gotenks. It is the only thing that matters and the fate of the universe is at hand, nothing else matters.

ROFL, Piccolo lost and gained his abilties? Seriously?


Trunks is able to tell that Gohan is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. Another example of the Z fighters sensing each other just fine.



Buutenks is formed. Gohan is confident in beating him. Gohan is unable to read Super Buu accurately. Yet Gohan was able to sense Dende. Yet another example of Z fighters accurately sensing other Z fighters. But as the trend continues, Gohan falls victim to the long list of people who are not sensing Super Buu properly.

Kuririn first, then Trunks a little moreso than Piccolo, then Gohan all in a chain fall victim to having a hard time sensing Super Buu's ABNORMAL KI.



Goku is thinking of merging with (the H-word). Goku is a desperate man with the weight of the universe on his shoulders. He was nothing to Buutenks, as we can plainly see he is asking for a time out ( seriously ) and then turns SSJ3 and puts his hands up in a defensive fetal manner. Goku wants no parts of Buutenks let alone Buuhan. Buu is on the verge of killing Goku, the universe last hope. Excuse Goku for trying any option possible. As we can see he considered Tenshinhan first , who was knocked out , then he goes on to (the H-word)/Dende. As soon as Goku senses Vegeta he ITs there right away. Showing that he is stable and was just desperate. If Goku was truly stupid he would sit there and still ponder about the might of Gokule. Obviously as soon as a better option presented itself he took it.



Buuhan thinks he can take SSJ Vegetto. Typical villian arrogance that is generally shown when a high powered villian is outclassed. Freeza and Cell both show the same responses to this situation.


Vegeta inside of Super Buu doesnt think anything of challenging him. Goku has to tell him they are nothing to Super Buu.

Vegeta has trouble sensing Buu.


So now the victims list has been furthered even moreso...


Kuririn/Trunks/Piccolo/Gohan/Vegeta now have all showed that neither one of them have a true accurate guage on how strong Super Buu is.



Vegeta underestimated Kid Buu and admits to it ( as well as underestimating SSJ3 Goku ) and is fighting in whatever form he can to buy time for Goku to finish them. Vegeta prepared to sacrifice himself yet again, does the best he can do in whatever form he can maintain.





Seriously dude, if your post was serious, I don't even know what to say. For me to have to go through that entire chain of events and have to actually explain the most obvious answer is ridicolous. I am going to assume you are joking, but if you weren't which you might not have been , since you disagree with the situation in the first place, you have really wasted a lot of my time.


And honestly man, if you can't get this. I really can't help you. I have never heard someone use such a backwards style logic in all of my time debating DB. It is really interesting that while going through your thinking process, this side of the coin never occurred to you. It really speaks volumes about what the hell is going on in your head. Jesus man!








And that's both sides of the story. Now it's up to you guys, to see which side is more logical. No need for us to even debate I think me and DBGTFO have completley covered all aspects on all sides.



Sorry for the long read, but seriously this is noteworthy stuff.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Doctor Know
Member Avatar


Trunks and Goten spent a little more than 30 minutes in the time chamber. 1 min in the real world = 6 hours in the chamber. That means 30 min in the real world would = 180 hours in the chamber. 180 hours = 7.5 days. Post ROSAT Gotenks would have to increase his strength more than 50x in order to be stronger than his pre- ROSAT SSJ self. The SSJ multiplier is 50. It's very unlikely Trunks and Goten improved that much given they only trained for a week.
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lunar2
Member Avatar


AllStarSuperman
Nov 24 2010, 06:46 AM
Trunks and Goten spent a little more than 30 minutes in the time chamber. 1 min in the real world = 6 hours in the chamber. That means 30 min in the real world would = 180 hours in the chamber. 180 hours = 7.5 days. Post ROSAT Gotenks would have to increase his strength more than 50x in order to be stronger than his pre- ROSAT SSJ self. The SSJ multiplier is 50. It's very unlikely Trunks and Goten improved that much given they only trained for a week.
but they trained separately for most of that time, after mastering ssj3. if the 2 of them both multiply their power by 25, then gotenks is 50x stronger. also, in addition to the 10x gravity and extreme temperatures, the rosat seems to be ideal for increasing power up to a point, meaning that training is more effective there then in any other similar conditions, as shown by vegeta increasing much more there in 1 year of 10x gravity than in 4 years of multiple hundreds of times earth gravity, but after the first year, the second did hardly anything.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
p123
Default Avatar


The SSJ boost is never suggested to be so high in the Buu Saga, you may be reading the wrong version. 50x boost is never suggested except against Freeza.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lunar2
Member Avatar


p123
Nov 24 2010, 10:26 PM
The SSJ boost is never suggested to be so high in the Buu Saga, you may be reading the wrong version. 50x boost is never suggested except against Freeza.
they will never be convinced of that, and for ease of arguement, i just use ssjx50 ssj2x2 ssj3x4, even though by buu saga its more like mssj +50% ssj2 3xbase ssj3 4xssj2.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
p123
Default Avatar


Well Lunar we know it's at least a 5x boost. Goku increases his strength 5 fold on King Kai's planet. Strength does not always equal ki, but in simplest terms, it appears to be a 5x boost.

Also, with the killi system, a 3.75 boost is suggested , although logically Goku could have been suppressed as well.


But your right, this issue, is so big, that it effects so much, and so many people will just no accept it. Ugh!
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
0 users reading this topic
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Learn More · Register for Free
« Previous Topic · Dragon Ball/Z Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Theme Designed by McKee91