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| P123 Battle Power Chart | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 14 2010, 03:12 AM (1,890 Views) | |
| Nusu | Nov 14 2010, 08:24 PM Post #16 |
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.
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Watch it, p123. I donīt know why some of you go chicken ***** about his power levels? I like them, he did them fine. I agree, Piccolo might gain more boost then everyone else due to his fusion, Piccolo only wanted his "Power" maybe there was something extra, like a small multiplier which allows Piccolo to grow in potential per fusion with another Namek, i mean look at King Piccolo his potential was relative low, but if he combines himself back with Kami, his potential rises into grades of a SSJ, so yeah, i agree Namekians probably get more boost with their "Fusions". Well, Vegeta isnīt really the guy who goes a time without training, so i think and this is just me you donīt need to change anything, i think Vegeta comes to the ranks of 3.000.000 if you ask me, but again this is just me, and totally made out of air. |
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Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one. | |
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Nov 14 2010, 08:29 PM Post #17 |
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Well Goku and Vegeta each have equal distractions, so I just gave them the same boost. Goku goes from 150 to 175 and percentage wise it's about the same as 2.4 mil to 2.75 mil The higher the numbers the higher the boost seems. However percentage wise, it's not really all that different. Just a little mind trickery numbers do. But at the end of the day, I say 2.75 you say 3, as long as we are that close, than I will be happy. Remember, my numbers at the end of the day are only suggesting a general range. So if you disagree to that point, it;s close enough to agree , don't you agree. Redid that last post, check it out again. I actually answered that guy who has no manners questions. Real indepth fusion formula stuff if you want to check them out. |
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| Nusu | Nov 14 2010, 08:41 PM Post #18 |
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.
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I red his posts too, i found some mistakes. First. The Elder Kai only sayīs that there is no need to transform, that dosenīt mean he lost the ability to transform since he is still a Saiyan, but that he only need to go SSJ 1 to go Mystic. Gokan would be able to go SSJ 3, Mystic is nothing more then Gohan having his full potential unlocked, so most likely Gokanīs potential might increase beyond the one of Gohans, and of course he still has Goku in him, who has the ability to go SSJ 3, which gives Gokan the ability to go SSJ 3. |
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Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one. | |
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Nov 14 2010, 08:55 PM Post #19 |
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Elder Kai says they MIGHT not have to transform. Big difference. When someone says might like Piccolo/Kami about SSJ Vegeta vs SSJ Goku, it implies that they are not 100% implying it should be close. So Gokan might not need to transform against Buutenks. Which means he is in the range of being equal to Buutenks to a bit stronger. Agreed. I really don't even look at mystic as a power up. But it's a moot point. If you think he can transform into Mystic or SSJ or whatever it doesn't really matter, the point is he can transform. So even if Gokan is only 1.5x stronger than Gohan, his ability to transform dwarfs Gohan. |
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| lunar2 | Nov 14 2010, 09:12 PM Post #20 |
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here is something to chew on, what if gokan is not mystic gohan and goku, but simply gohan and goku, who are about even or gohan a little stronger afer z sword training. that would mean that gokan would be about half as powerful as vegito, since i put the rival boost at 2x, and there is no mention of any father son boost or any other boost that gokan would get. also, for my best estimate, fusion is the combined powers of the individuals x5.5 and potara is the combined powers of the individuals x44, or 8x as powerful as fusion. i dont remember exactly how i got those numbers, but its somewhere in the versus section, i'll go look for it. and why are 19 and 20 placed below frieza on this list? Edited by lunar2, Nov 14 2010, 09:14 PM.
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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Nov 14 2010, 09:23 PM Post #21 |
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Well the fusion multiplier is all dependant on your placement of the major character who determines him. Base Gotenks Post Rosat is the most important character to get right. Then fusion multiplier also is based on your regular SSJ/SSJ2/SSJ3 multipliers. So dependant on a lot of factors, people can have varying fusion mutlipliers, and still be technically correct at least spacing wise. So your boosts aren't going to really help out with my boosts as you can see. The boosts are just designed to reach the right spacing for the right characters at the end of the day. I don't see 19/20 being that strong. I think Tien's comment about Sick Goku is a retcon. I factor in Future Gohan ~ 40-50% of Future 17, and make small adjustments to Present/Future if neeeded. I won't touch Future vs Present, but I left appropriate spacing for both theories. I have Piccolo = 50% of 17, and when he fuses with Kami he doubles his power. And I have Piccolo > yardrat Goku > SSJ Trunks ~Future Gohan ~ Goku Namek... So with all of those formulas is how I get an estimate range for 19/20. Sick Goku is probably fighting somewher from 100-150 million in my book. His power was stated to be nowhere near his full power, and should be far more staggering accoridng to Piccolo, who trains with him. Anyway, so it's basically a number of factors as you can see. Your placement of Future/Present Androids pretty much dictate the rest of the characters... Any hypothetical fusions tell me and I will do them using my formula and using my power chart and give you a power range in which they are at in relation to other characters, then we can compare... Gohan Post Zeta Sword 2,000,000,000 ~ SSJ 10,000,000,000 ~ SSJ2 30,000,000,000 Goku 1,333,000,000 ~ SSJ 6,666,000,000 ~ SSJ2 20,000,000,000 So yes, Gokan the fusion at this stage, equals Gogeta. Since Vegeta = Goku since SSJ3 cannot be accounted for, and the weaker fighter determines fusion, in this case it's Goku , it's pretty much Goku/Goku = Gokan. Much like how when Goten/Trunks fuse for the first time, it might as well be Goten/Goten since Trunks comes down to Goten's power levels. Potara Gokan at this stage would be just a tiny bit stronger. 530 bilion. Potara is most effective when used between two fighters with vastly different strengths. Edited by p123, Nov 14 2010, 09:27 PM.
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| Fulgore | Nov 15 2010, 04:34 AM Post #22 |
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The Darkness Returns
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The Metamoran Fusion is inferior to the Potara Fusion, so gotenks cannot really be the basis on which you determine fusion's power. They don't have to be the same power level, and no the weaker fighter does NOT determine the power in a Potara fusion. There's no sort of draw back to Potara fusion besides it being permanent(Which some would consider it to be a plus)\ Not to mention, I'm willing to bet a Father-son Fusion would be insanely more powerful than Goku/Vegeta Also food for though, Gohan was always mystic when they were attempting to fuse. Edited by Fulgore, Nov 15 2010, 04:44 AM.
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| Nusu | Nov 15 2010, 09:07 AM Post #23 |
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.
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It depends, actually, The Potara allows the fighter to fuse with the power level they just have right now. And in the regular fusion you need to power down which effects the fusions power. So Gohu would be weaker. And Gokan would be stronger. I doubt that Gokan would get any boost at all, Goku and Gohan arenīt rivals. Edited by Nusu, Nov 15 2010, 09:11 AM.
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Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one. | |
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| Fulgore | Nov 15 2010, 10:07 AM Post #24 |
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The Darkness Returns
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They're not, but the bond they share is much much greater than that of Rivals. |
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| Nusu | Nov 15 2010, 10:31 AM Post #25 |
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.
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I doubt it, but whatever. |
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Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one. | |
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| Fulgore | Nov 15 2010, 01:36 PM Post #26 |
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The Darkness Returns
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How do you doubt a bond between father and son is stronger than that of rivals.. and it's not even a rivalry. Goku blows vegeta's ***** out of the water Edited by Fulgore, Nov 15 2010, 01:37 PM.
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| lunar2 | Nov 15 2010, 02:42 PM Post #27 |
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it is a rivalry, because vegeta is trying to surpass goku. and goku does not blow vegeta's ***** out of the water if they are in the same form, they are actually relatively close in power. a 10%, 20% difference at most. and yes, there is a bond between goku and gohan, but it is a different type of bond then between rivals. only the bond between rivals is said to make the potara fusion any more powerful. Edited by lunar2, Nov 15 2010, 02:43 PM.
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| Nusu | Nov 15 2010, 06:26 PM Post #28 |
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.
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Sometimes Vegeta and Goku are sharing more then Gohan shares with Goku, is it because of their Saiyan blood? Might be, both share the sense of fighting, both love it, both are head straight warriors and both are pure saiyans. So, yes i think Goku and Vegeta have more in common then Goku has with his son. Goku shares with Gohan a family bond, which is based on love, Goku and Vegeta are sharing a bond which is based on fighting, which should increase the Potara or the Fusion a lot more. Edited by Nusu, Nov 15 2010, 06:27 PM.
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Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one. | |
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Nov 15 2010, 07:57 PM Post #29 |
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Well how fusion works is really up for interpretation. Elder Kai states that Potara has " greater effects " than the Metamoran Fusion. So I take this into account for my fusion formulas. Base Gotenks Post is the most important character in determining the Metamoran Fusion. For the Potara fusion, there are a number of people who are important, which determines how strong it is, and what kind of formula to use. 1) Gokan implies to be a little bit stronger than Buutenks. 2) Hercule/Goku implied to add just a little bit to Goku. Goku questions if it would only make him weaker, which I believe the Metomoran Fusion would do with similar species in those vast differences in power. 3) Kibito Kai, implied to not be able to help against Kid Buu, thus he should be weaker than the weakest guy who is helping out against Kid Buu, SSJ2 Vegeta. And basically if you can make a formula that fits those 3 issues, you have a working , correlating fusion formula. If your formula cannot match those 3 things, then it's not a working correlating formula. Anyone can come up with any formula. It's really up for interpretation. As long as you can get the formula to fit what the implications are we are good. There is no right/wrong way technically, and the level of hypothetical, and assumption heavy this topic is, means that varying answers could work, and all be technically plausible. THe main thing is plausibility. So as long as your formula can output the correct results, which are the implications I posted, it is indeed plausible. Which is all that matters, since there is no exact right or wrong way. The Daiz uses A x B as a Potara Fusion multiplier. This I find to be ridicolous. If Roshi fused with himself, he would be stronger than Saiyan Saga Vegeta. That is just incredible. And stupid. So I do not use that method if that's what you use. On the Father-Son bonus issue, it sounds like a good idea Lunar. It does I like it and who knows it could be possible. But when we are talking canon material, it is never suggested, thus making it a baseless speculation, meaning it is not valid in discussion. Anyone can make up any idea and say that it's real, that is not logical debating. A Father -Son boost is never suggested,implied, or brought up. So as far as Im concern there is no Father-Son boost since I have no legitmate evidence for thinking so. Making up whatever the hell you want is fun sure, but is hardly factual, let alone plausible. At the end of the day plausibility is the only thing that matetrs. |
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| lunar2 | Nov 15 2010, 08:01 PM Post #30 |
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hey, im the one that said there is no father son boost, not the one that suggested it |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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