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Prove that Janemba is stronger. You can't. Stronger than SSjin 3 Goku, yes, as strong as Super Buu... Again, there is no proof.
In my book i consider Janemba an Super Buu tier sorry. You need to prove that Janemba wasnīt playing around and that he isnīt a Super Buu tier so either you stay on your opinion or start digging.
Just thought I'd directly reply to your post. How can I prove that Janemba wasn't shown to be only stronger than SSjin 3 Goku when that's all we see? The burden of proof is on you to prove to me that he is even stronger than that.
Where can you prove that he is as strong as Kid Buu, so i can prove that he is on Super Buuīs level? Heck, by the need of fusion i could put him on Buutenks level, there isnīt enough evidence to prove that he is on Kid Buuīs level or on Super Buuīs level. But i can have my opinion wich is that i think that he is on Super Buuīs level because i personally think he hold back so he fought suppressed against Goku SSJ 3 to keep the fun going, after Gogeta arrived he might powerīd up to full power, but being on the level of Buuhan makeīd it harder for Janemba to survive.
The only person who actually hurtīd Janemba was Gogeta, Pikkon hitīd him but didnīt do any damage, so saying just because Pikkon and Goku hitīd him and he kinda cracked and screamīd dosenīt mean he is weaker then them or equal when he clearly had the upper hand all along.
Saying that he is on Buutenks' level because Goku and Vegeta fused into Gogeta is like saying that Bojack is near SSjin 2 because Gohan went SSjin 2 to defeat him, which is not the case. Just because someone transforms into a higher level doesn't mean that that power was required to kill them and no less. Now, circumstantially, Gogeta was required to kill Janemba, but SSjin Gotenks [post-RoSat] and Super Buu could also kill him.
Now, in my opinion, Janemba wasn't powering up. Why? You can see it on his face. He was merely having a rage fit. I'd like you to think about something. When Gogeta started to move towards Janemba he quit his ki-flare session to stare in fear. If he was powering up then he was certainly interrupted. Later on, when Gogeta is forming the ki purification, Janemba is just standing there in awe. If he was powering up at first, and if he was interrupted, which he would've been if he was, then he would've most likely taken that time to continue powering up. But he doesn't. Upon completion of Gogeta's ki purification attack he decides to attack, which indicates that the strength he had was all he had, since he didn't take the time to power up further. Now, you can't prove that isn't so. And you can't prove that Janemba was powering up either. So, it is as you said just your opinion. But, I think it's obvious Janemba was not powering up, just pissed off and flaring his ki. And I stand by what I said. Janemba is stronger than SSjin 3 Goku, but not by much.
Prove that Janemba is stronger. You can't. Stronger than SSjin 3 Goku, yes, as strong as Super Buu... Again, there is no proof.
In my book i consider Janemba an Super Buu tier sorry. You need to prove that Janemba wasnīt playing around and that he isnīt a Super Buu tier so either you stay on your opinion or start digging.
Just thought I'd directly reply to your post. How can I prove that Janemba wasn't shown to be only stronger than SSjin 3 Goku when that's all we see? The burden of proof is on you to prove to me that he is even stronger than that.
Where can you prove that he is as strong as Kid Buu, so i can prove that he is on Super Buuīs level? Heck, by the need of fusion i could put him on Buutenks level, there isnīt enough evidence to prove that he is on Kid Buuīs level or on Super Buuīs level. But i can have my opinion wich is that i think that he is on Super Buuīs level because i personally think he hold back so he fought suppressed against Goku SSJ 3 to keep the fun going, after Gogeta arrived he might powerīd up to full power, but being on the level of Buuhan makeīd it harder for Janemba to survive.
The only person who actually hurtīd Janemba was Gogeta, Pikkon hitīd him but didnīt do any damage, so saying just because Pikkon and Goku hitīd him and he kinda cracked and screamīd dosenīt mean he is weaker then them or equal when he clearly had the upper hand all along.
Saying that he is on Buutenks' level because Goku and Vegeta fused into Gogeta is like saying that Bojack is near SSjin 2 because Gohan went SSjin 2 to defeat him, which is not the case. Just because someone transforms into a higher level doesn't mean that that power was required to kill them and no less. Now, circumstantially, Gogeta was required to kill Janemba, but SSjin Gotenks [post-RoSat] and Super Buu could also kill him.
Now, in my opinion, Janemba wasn't powering up. Why? You can see it on his face. He was merely having a rage fit. I'd like you to think about something. When Gogeta started to move towards Janemba he quit his ki-flare session to stare in fear. If he was powering up then he was certainly interrupted. Later on, when Gogeta is forming the ki purification, Janemba is just standing there in awe. If he was powering up at first, and if he was interrupted, which he would've been if he was, then he would've most likely taken that time to continue powering up. But he doesn't. Upon completion of Gogeta's ki purification attack he decides to attack, which indicates that the strength he had was all he had, since he didn't take the time to power up further. Now, you can't prove that isn't so. And you can't prove that Janemba was powering up either. So, it is as you said just your opinion. But, I think it's obvious Janemba was not powering up, just pissed off and flaring his ki. And I stand by what I said. Janemba is stronger than SSjin 3 Goku, but not by much.
Gotenks SSJ and Super Buu? Since when, Janemba didnīt fought Gotenks nor Super Buu so this is lol. You canīt say on what level Janemba is, he fought Goku SSJ 3 and was beating him, in my perspective he wasnīt even trying so this makes him stronger then Fat Buu and probably stronger then Kid Buu so yeah. I canīt see Janemba trying at least when Gogeta arrives, so i could put him on Super Buuīs level without feeling retarded, since Goku didnīt had a chance in SSJ 3 and nearly got killed twice.
Canīt say anything about it since there isnīt an prove to prove this wrong. For me? Powering up, i donīt know where the problem is, he screamed the Ki started going wild, and then Gogeta walked forward, wondering why he isnīt stronger even though he powerīd up, feeling humiliated and having the fear to die, he tryīd to attack Gogeta, Gogeta easily handles the fool.. charges his "Soul Breaker" and destroyīs Janemba.
Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one.
Prove that Janemba is stronger. You can't. Stronger than SSjin 3 Goku, yes, as strong as Super Buu... Again, there is no proof.
In my book i consider Janemba an Super Buu tier sorry. You need to prove that Janemba wasnīt playing around and that he isnīt a Super Buu tier so either you stay on your opinion or start digging.
Just thought I'd directly reply to your post. How can I prove that Janemba wasn't shown to be only stronger than SSjin 3 Goku when that's all we see? The burden of proof is on you to prove to me that he is even stronger than that.
Where can you prove that he is as strong as Kid Buu, so i can prove that he is on Super Buuīs level? Heck, by the need of fusion i could put him on Buutenks level, there isnīt enough evidence to prove that he is on Kid Buuīs level or on Super Buuīs level. But i can have my opinion wich is that i think that he is on Super Buuīs level because i personally think he hold back so he fought suppressed against Goku SSJ 3 to keep the fun going, after Gogeta arrived he might powerīd up to full power, but being on the level of Buuhan makeīd it harder for Janemba to survive.
The only person who actually hurtīd Janemba was Gogeta, Pikkon hitīd him but didnīt do any damage, so saying just because Pikkon and Goku hitīd him and he kinda cracked and screamīd dosenīt mean he is weaker then them or equal when he clearly had the upper hand all along.
Saying that he is on Buutenks' level because Goku and Vegeta fused into Gogeta is like saying that Bojack is near SSjin 2 because Gohan went SSjin 2 to defeat him, which is not the case. Just because someone transforms into a higher level doesn't mean that that power was required to kill them and no less. Now, circumstantially, Gogeta was required to kill Janemba, but SSjin Gotenks [post-RoSat] and Super Buu could also kill him.
Now, in my opinion, Janemba wasn't powering up. Why? You can see it on his face. He was merely having a rage fit. I'd like you to think about something. When Gogeta started to move towards Janemba he quit his ki-flare session to stare in fear. If he was powering up then he was certainly interrupted. Later on, when Gogeta is forming the ki purification, Janemba is just standing there in awe. If he was powering up at first, and if he was interrupted, which he would've been if he was, then he would've most likely taken that time to continue powering up. But he doesn't. Upon completion of Gogeta's ki purification attack he decides to attack, which indicates that the strength he had was all he had, since he didn't take the time to power up further. Now, you can't prove that isn't so. And you can't prove that Janemba was powering up either. So, it is as you said just your opinion. But, I think it's obvious Janemba was not powering up, just pissed off and flaring his ki. And I stand by what I said. Janemba is stronger than SSjin 3 Goku, but not by much.
Gotenks SSJ and Super Buu? Since when, Janemba didnīt fought Gotenks nor Super Buu so this is lol. You canīt say on what level Janemba is, he fought Goku SSJ 3 and was beating him, in my perspective he wasnīt even trying so this makes him stronger then Fat Buu and probably stronger then Kid Buu so yeah. I canīt see Janemba trying at least when Gogeta arrives, so i could put him on Super Buuīs level without feeling retarded, since Goku didnīt had a chance in SSJ 3 and nearly got killed twice.
Canīt say anything about it since there isnīt an prove to prove this wrong. For me? Powering up, i donīt know where the problem is, he screamed the Ki started going wild, and then Gogeta walked forward, wondering why he isnīt stronger even though he powerīd up, feeling humiliated and having the fear to die, he tryīd to attack Gogeta, Gogeta easily handles the fool.. charges his "Soul Breaker" and destroyīs Janemba.
I sure can say that Gotenks and Super Buu can kill him. He wasn't shown to be much stronger than SSjin 3 Goku. He beat SSjin 3 Goku due to his many abilities. If you recall, he teleported in front of Goku and blasted him good. He mouth blasted Goku at a short range and he took it head on and still wasn't destroyed. You're telling me that Janemba was holding back at those points, even though it wasn't shown or stated that he was stronger than that? That's the most we see him output against Goku, and Goku still didn't go down until he ran out of energy after being slashed by Janemba's sword. If Janemba was on Super Buu's level, I'm surprised it took so much to bring Goku down because Super Buu is equal with SSSjin 3 Gotenks, and we all know SSjin 3 Goku is way below that. Furthermore, Vegeta even showed that he could dodge and damage [however little it was] Janemba, and he was WAY WAY below Super Buu. If Vegeta was fighting SSjin 3 Goku, that would be a feat in itself, but if Vegeta was fighting with Super Buu and he dodged his attack, that would be a miracle. I don't think that there was that great of a difference between Janemba and Vegeta. But there was obviously a great difference nonetheless.
If Janemba powered up in that sequence than I could also say that Piccolo powered up even further after not beating Incomplete Cell. But he didn't because it was stated that Piccolo had already equaled 17 by that time by 16. And, this is an example of what Janemba was doing. And if we have an example for one side of the argument and no evidence for the other side of the argument that Janemba actually became stronger, which do you think is more likely to be true? Or, to put it better, which do you think is the more likely explanation?
Goku was able to fight Janemba on pretty equal terms. His kicks had effects on Janemba and forced Janemba to use his abilities. Without Janemba's abilities it's debatable that he was indeed at a disadvantage. After dealing Goku some nasty attacks the tide of battle turned. Was this because he at that point decided to go berserk on Goku, or was it because he started using his abilities? You can decide on that. I'll I'm saying is that Goku's defeat was due to the great difference in abiltites, and not necessarily a great difference in power. Perhaps Janemba was stronger than Goku, but I really doubt it was by much after seeing Goku take his mouth blast head on.
Prove that Janemba is stronger. You can't. Stronger than SSjin 3 Goku, yes, as strong as Super Buu... Again, there is no proof.
In my book i consider Janemba an Super Buu tier sorry. You need to prove that Janemba wasnīt playing around and that he isnīt a Super Buu tier so either you stay on your opinion or start digging.
Just thought I'd directly reply to your post. How can I prove that Janemba wasn't shown to be only stronger than SSjin 3 Goku when that's all we see? The burden of proof is on you to prove to me that he is even stronger than that.
Where can you prove that he is as strong as Kid Buu, so i can prove that he is on Super Buuīs level? Heck, by the need of fusion i could put him on Buutenks level, there isnīt enough evidence to prove that he is on Kid Buuīs level or on Super Buuīs level. But i can have my opinion wich is that i think that he is on Super Buuīs level because i personally think he hold back so he fought suppressed against Goku SSJ 3 to keep the fun going, after Gogeta arrived he might powerīd up to full power, but being on the level of Buuhan makeīd it harder for Janemba to survive.
The only person who actually hurtīd Janemba was Gogeta, Pikkon hitīd him but didnīt do any damage, so saying just because Pikkon and Goku hitīd him and he kinda cracked and screamīd dosenīt mean he is weaker then them or equal when he clearly had the upper hand all along.
Saying that he is on Buutenks' level because Goku and Vegeta fused into Gogeta is like saying that Bojack is near SSjin 2 because Gohan went SSjin 2 to defeat him, which is not the case. Just because someone transforms into a higher level doesn't mean that that power was required to kill them and no less. Now, circumstantially, Gogeta was required to kill Janemba, but SSjin Gotenks [post-RoSat] and Super Buu could also kill him.
Now, in my opinion, Janemba wasn't powering up. Why? You can see it on his face. He was merely having a rage fit. I'd like you to think about something. When Gogeta started to move towards Janemba he quit his ki-flare session to stare in fear. If he was powering up then he was certainly interrupted. Later on, when Gogeta is forming the ki purification, Janemba is just standing there in awe. If he was powering up at first, and if he was interrupted, which he would've been if he was, then he would've most likely taken that time to continue powering up. But he doesn't. Upon completion of Gogeta's ki purification attack he decides to attack, which indicates that the strength he had was all he had, since he didn't take the time to power up further. Now, you can't prove that isn't so. And you can't prove that Janemba was powering up either. So, it is as you said just your opinion. But, I think it's obvious Janemba was not powering up, just pissed off and flaring his ki. And I stand by what I said. Janemba is stronger than SSjin 3 Goku, but not by much.
Gotenks SSJ and Super Buu? Since when, Janemba didnīt fought Gotenks nor Super Buu so this is lol. You canīt say on what level Janemba is, he fought Goku SSJ 3 and was beating him, in my perspective he wasnīt even trying so this makes him stronger then Fat Buu and probably stronger then Kid Buu so yeah. I canīt see Janemba trying at least when Gogeta arrives, so i could put him on Super Buuīs level without feeling retarded, since Goku didnīt had a chance in SSJ 3 and nearly got killed twice.
Canīt say anything about it since there isnīt an prove to prove this wrong. For me? Powering up, i donīt know where the problem is, he screamed the Ki started going wild, and then Gogeta walked forward, wondering why he isnīt stronger even though he powerīd up, feeling humiliated and having the fear to die, he tryīd to attack Gogeta, Gogeta easily handles the fool.. charges his "Soul Breaker" and destroyīs Janemba.
I sure can say that Gotenks and Super Buu can kill him. He wasn't shown to be much stronger than SSjin 3 Goku. He beat SSjin 3 Goku due to his many abilities. If you recall, he teleported in front of Goku and blasted him good. He mouth blasted Goku at a short range and he took it head on and still wasn't destroyed. You're telling me that Janemba was holding back at those points, even though it wasn't shown or stated that he was stronger than that? That's the most we see him output against Goku, and Goku still didn't go down until he ran out of energy after being slashed by Janemba's sword. If Janemba was on Super Buu's level, I'm surprised it took so much to bring Goku down because Super Buu is equal with SSSjin 3 Gotenks, and we all know SSjin 3 Goku is way below that. Furthermore, Vegeta even showed that he could dodge and damage [however little it was] Janemba, and he was WAY WAY below Super Buu. If Vegeta was fighting SSjin 3 Goku, that would be a feat in itself, but if Vegeta was fighting with Super Buu and he dodged his attack, that would be a miracle. I don't think that there was that great of a difference between Janemba and Vegeta. But there was obviously a great difference nonetheless.
If Janemba powered up in that sequence than I could also say that Piccolo powered up even further after not beating Incomplete Cell. But he didn't because it was stated that Piccolo had already equaled 17 by that time by 16. And, this is an example of what Janemba was doing. And if we have an example for one side of the argument and no evidence for the other side of the argument that Janemba actually became stronger, which do you think is more likely to be true? Or, to put it better, which do you think is the more likely explanation?
Goku was able to fight Janemba on pretty equal terms. His kicks had effects on Janemba and forced Janemba to use his abilities. Without Janemba's abilities it's debatable that he was indeed at a disadvantage. After dealing Goku some nasty attacks the tide of battle turned. Was this because he at that point decided to go berserk on Goku, or was it because he started using his abilities? You can decide on that. I'll I'm saying is that Goku's defeat was due to the great difference in abiltites, and not necessarily a great difference in power. Perhaps Janemba was stronger than Goku, but I really doubt it was by much after seeing Goku take his mouth blast head on.
Janemba clearly showed to be able to destroy Goku TWICE, Janemba clearly smiled in the fight with Goku SSJ 3, ergo.
His kicks had effect? So? The blast had effect on Janemba too when Vegeta SSJ 2 shootīd him.
The punch krillin landed on Goku had effect to in movie 8.
Heck, even a stone had effect on Goku.
Grinning, fighting rather slow, didnīt concentrate much, it was clearly to see in the whole fight.
Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one.
psyams explanation for why Super Boo is stronger than Janemba
Quote:
This'll seem off-topic at the start, and it's a long read, but please bare with me:
Goku thought that Goten and Trunks would definitely be able to beat Fat Buu with no trouble once they fused. He was confident on that. However, Goku didn't know Gotenks would reach the level of Super Saiyan 3, as he was clearly surprised and impressed when he saw them come out of the time chamber at that level. What we can take from this is that Goku must of thought Goten and Trunks would be able to beat Fat Buu just by being a fused Super Saiyan, he didn't expect them to become a Super Saiyan 3, and he didn't think they'd need it to beat Fat Buu.
Goku said he could of also probably beat Fat Buu. Probably. We don't know exactly how powerful Fat Buu was as he never showed his full effort before he split into Good and Evil, but if we take what Goku said as roughly accurate and he might of been able to beat Fat Buu as a SSJ3, we should be able to place SSJ Gotenks and SSJ3 Goku at about the same level of power, as both would be able to beat Fat Buu, but probably not without a great deal of effort.
If we place SSJ Gotenks (before time chamber) and SSJ3 Goku at roughly the same place, we can accurately compare Super Janemba and Super Saiyan Gotenks. See where I'm going with this yet?
Super Janemba did not have a large advantage over Goku in power. Goku was actually overpowering him in close range combat and causing Janemba a great deal of pain, forcing him to use his teleportation. It was Janemba's sword that won him the battle, and even at his best we can only assume Super Janemba to be a little stronger then SSJ3 Goku in terms of power.
Super Saiyan Gotenks Vs. Super Janemba would be much like Goku Vs Super Janemba, Gotenks would get some good hits in, but Janemba would probably beat him by teleporting around and manipulating the environment, as he did against Goku. Gotenks might fair better then Goku did, perhaps, but even if he lost it would be largely due to Janemba's techniques, not by being overpowered.
We can put Super Janemba a little above Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Super Saiyan Gotenks in power. By now you probably realise what I've about to say next.
Super Buu curb-stomped SSJ Gotenks. Gotenks devastated him by catching him off guard with his Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack, but otherwise was unable to pose a threat to Super Buu, who was unaffected by Gotenks attacks and able to break out of his Galactic Donut attack like it was nothing. There's no denying Super Buu outclasses Super Saiyan Gotenks, and remember, this is Gotenks after the Hyperbolic Time Chamber training, which made him even stronger then when Goku said he'd be able to beat Fat Buu.
If Super Janemba is only a little stronger then Super Saiyan Gotenks/SSJ3 Goku, and Super Buu effortlessly beat a SSJ Gotenks who had become more powerful from the time chamber training, then Super Buu can be calculated to be far above Super Janemba's power. Add to that his techniques arguably equal or even surpass Janemba's (Absorption, Transfiguration Ray, Regeneration from smoke which Janemba was never shown to be capable of), it's no contest here. Super Buu outclasses Janemba in every way.
SSJ3 Gotenks was very superior to Super Boo, who is, at the most, roughly equal to Super Boo.
Janemba clearly showed to be able to destroy Goku TWICE, Janemba clearly smiled in the fight with Goku SSJ 3, ergo.
His kicks had effect? So? The blast had effect on Janemba too when Vegeta SSJ 2 shootīd him.
The punch krillin landed on Goku had effect to in movie 8.
Heck, even a stone had effect on Goku.
Grinning, fighting rather slow, didnīt concentrate much, it was clearly to see in the whole fight.
*Sigh*
Janemba was smiling at points, but that is because he knew he could win. That doesn't mean he was a whole lot stronger.
Vegeta's blast may or may not of had an effect, but it was enough to push him out of the teleportation realm. Obviously, if he is on par with SSjin 3, then it shouldn't really have hurt him.
Krillin's punch effected Goku for comical reasons. And you know that. Same goes for the part where Goku gets hit by that rock [which is also filler]. Do you really think getting hit by a rock is going to hurt him, I mean really? If you recall. A whole mess of rocks hit Goku's face [and they were travelling a lot faster] when he was battling 50% Freeza [true form], and he's a lot stronger since then.
What I saw in the fight was this: At first, Goku is doing well against Janemba, but not until Janemba decides to use his powers, which, if you were really watching the fight, enabled him to get a good upperhand against Goku. After Goku takes some nasty attacks up close, and after dispelling some chi against the initial Janemba, he is pretty jacked up. Then Janemba uses his power to create a sword. Goku gets really injured here as he is cut through the shoulder and is forced to return to base. Janemba won because he jacked Goku up, not because he was a ton stronger than he was. If he was, Goku would've been vaporized when he took Janemba's mouth blast head on. And when people say things like "Janemba took no effect from Goku's ki blast" [which was cut in two and was also a weak ki blast]..."so that makes him a ton stronger than Goku", but fail to see that Goku survived Janemba's mouth blast, taking it face-first, and did well enough in physical combat to force Janemba to use his powers, is borderline biased in my opinion.
I think Psyam said everything pretty well also. There is no proof that Janemba is a great deal stronger than what he showed against SSjin 3 Goku, only assumption by those who really wish Janemba to be a lot stronger than what he was shown to be. Forgive my forwardness.
Of course i forgive you, seems, like your right, i canīt really debate besides giving in and stop the useless complain, well, i need to re-watch 11 anyways, but for now.. i think Janemba is stronger then Kid Buu, but weaker then Super Buu.
Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one.
gotenks launches 10 kamikaze ghosts, if even half dont get blown up playing around, the force behind them will seriously injure janemba no matter what his power is. and it does no good to teleport, because they will just chase him until they hit something.
list of canon sources:
the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.
list of non canon sources:
everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.
gotenks launches 10 kamikaze ghosts, if even half dont get blown up playing around, the force behind them will seriously injure janemba no matter what his power is. and it does no good to teleport, because they will just chase him until they hit something.
This is more like warping or going through a portal then real teleport.
Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one.
seems, like your right, i canīt really debate besides giving in and stop the useless complain, well, i need to re-watch 11 anyways, but for now.. i think Janemba is stronger then Kid Buu, but weaker then Super Buu.
4:43 PM Jul 13