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You say Gohan was SSJ2 but he punched Broly straight in the face and it had no affect. SSJ2 Vegeta actually had some affect on Kid Buu when he fought him and Kid Buu is much, much stronger than LSSJ Broly.

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So if Gohan was really a SSJ2 in Movie 10, then he must have at least lost 50% of his power.

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And if you wanna compare hairstyles, SSJ Vegeta's hair during the Buu Saga looks no different than his SSJ2 hairstyle. And at times, lighting isn't even shown when he's SSJ2.

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This doesn't make sense. Gohan is obviously SSJ1 in Movie 10.

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Also, Toriyama makes mistakes too. I read on here that the manga states Gohan was 16 years old when he was in high school but if you look back and count the years that went by (even a day in the time chamber), it only makes sense that he's 18 in high school. So yes, Toriyama makes mistakes too, like he probably did with Gohan's hair.

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Gun bullets had an effect on Boo.

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If you think he lost 50%, then sure, I guess. I don't, since even Vegeta said nothing about "half", when he probably would have had Gohan actually lost that much.

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Yeah, which is why it's really hard to determine if he's SSj2, which is why we look at his aura. And yes, lightning isn't shown because Toei is inconsistent with "lightning = SSj2".

p123

Sep 28 2010, 09:08 PM

I don't think there is a difference... Actually it's implied they are the same...


Gohan

" He's just as much of a challenge as before "


Nothing contradicts that so...


Movie 8 = Movie 10 as far as I am concerned.

darkwarrior

Sep 28 2010, 11:56 PM

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Gun bullets had an effect on Boo.

Yeah, but they didn't hurt him. He just stood there.

I'm talking about feeling pain. When SSJ2 Vegeta threw punches at Kid Buu, he actually coughed up saliva and took damage.

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If you think he lost 50%, then sure, I guess. I don't, since even Vegeta said nothing about "half", when he probably would have had Gohan actually lost that much.

I don't think he lost half his power. I think he's just a SSJ1 and not a SSJ2.

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Yeah, which is why it's really hard to determine if he's SSj2, which is why we look at his aura. And yes, lightning isn't shown because Toei is inconsistent with "lightning = SSj2".

His aura was the same when he turned SSJ2 in the anime. I didn't see much, if any difference.

Like I said earlier, I used to think auras were irrelevant when it came to transformations but I guess not. Probably just has to do with the amount of power being generated.

Example: SSJ2 Kid Gohan's aura wasn't that big when he was powered up against Cell but SSJ1 Gohan's aura in front of Buu's egg was bigger. Also, check the USSJ and FPSSJ transformations. I think aura has more to do with power being generated than actual transformations.

darkwarrior

Sep 28 2010, 10:43 PM

In Movie 10, Broly was supposedly frozen for seven years but he somehow got a zenkai (even though this ability is supposedly irrelevant after Cell is killed).

Gohan lived a normal life but got weaker during those seven years. Also, NOTHING implies that Gohan is a SSJ2 in Movie 10. He is a SSJ1. Now some may say, "Why would Gohan fight LSSJ Broly as a SSJ1 when his life is on the line?". Well, why did he try fighting SSJ1 Broly in base form in the first place? Why did Vegeta fight Kid Buu once in base form? Why didn't Gotenks fight Super Buu as a SSJ3 in the time chamber?

So for whatever reason, the Saiyans sometimes choose not to transform (probably because they like the challenge?).

And anyone who wants to bring Gohan's hair style into this, he's shown with one bang as a SSJ1 during the 25th Budokai and even when he fought Dabura. People say Toriyama changed his style of Gohan's hair but unless he says so himself, I'll assume he forgot to draw him differently.

I stand by my word that there is no way Broly is as strong as a SSJ2. He's probably a little stronger than a FPSSJ but that power is still nowhere near as powerful as a SSJ2.

And for anyone saying Goku and Gohan were FPSSJs in Movie 8, they were not. If you recall in the anime, they only achieved FPSSJ through transforming in front of Cell. In Movie 8, they're just SSJ1s but like Vegeta said, they stay SSJ1 to increase stamina.

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 29 2010, 03:09 AM

Well, even I don't think Broly could take down Goku or Vegeta... The most I see him at is SSj2 Kid Gohan, honestly. Stronger or weaker, sure, but around that area.

The fact that nobody could even budge Broly in Movie 8, and Gohan could get out of Broly's hold, makes me think the gap between SSj2 Teen Gohan and LSSj Broly in Movie 10 is closer than LSSj Broly and the FPSSjs in Movie 8.

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 29 2010, 04:22 AM

FPSSj isn't really a form, I should've made that clearer. FPSSj can't be obtained by transforming. It's just SSj without the stress and restlessness that the form brings. It's not a separate transformation, therefore Goku and Gohan couldn't have transformed into FPSSj. They were already FPSSj. And I think they are FPSSj in Movie 8, but they left the RoSaT too early to get the full power bonus that it granted them. I see their training in two parts:

1. Master Super Saiyan to the point where they can maintain it as their normal form.
2. Train in that state for several months.

I think they got the first part down but left too early to get the second part down, if you get what I mean.

People differ on the gap between the adults and Kid Gohan, but I personally think the adults are around 2x stronger. Lol.

There is no gap between SSj and FPSSj. They're the same thing, but FPSSj is just the term used when they've gotten rid of the drawbacks of SSj.

darkwarrior

Sep 28 2010, 10:43 PM

In Movie 10, Broly was supposedly frozen for seven years but he somehow got a zenkai (even though this ability is supposedly irrelevant after Cell is killed).

Gohan lived a normal life but got weaker during those seven years. Also, NOTHING implies that Gohan is a SSJ2 in Movie 10. He is a SSJ1. Now some may say, "Why would Gohan fight LSSJ Broly as a SSJ1 when his life is on the line?". Well, why did he try fighting SSJ1 Broly in base form in the first place? Why did Vegeta fight Kid Buu once in base form? Why didn't Gotenks fight Super Buu as a SSJ3 in the time chamber?

So for whatever reason, the Saiyans sometimes choose not to transform (probably because they like the challenge?).

And anyone who wants to bring Gohan's hair style into this, he's shown with one bang as a SSJ1 during the 25th Budokai and even when he fought Dabura. People say Toriyama changed his style of Gohan's hair but unless he says so himself, I'll assume he forgot to draw him differently.

I stand by my word that there is no way Broly is as strong as a SSJ2. He's probably a little stronger than a FPSSJ but that power is still nowhere near as powerful as a SSJ2.

And for anyone saying Goku and Gohan were FPSSJs in Movie 8, they were not. If you recall in the anime, they only achieved FPSSJ through transforming in front of Cell. In Movie 8, they're just SSJ1s but like Vegeta said, they stay SSJ1 to increase stamina.

Chief

Sep 29 2010, 05:17 AM

Hey dark me and you are totally on the same page, your not alone.

I just don't understand how broli, the same guy that took a kick from super vegeta... clothslined videl and her body didn't year in half.

Obviously he was still weakened by the attack from goku...

yes broli got the zankai or whatever you call it,
but he also was frozen for several years.
now I don't care what saiyan special ability to
gain strength after near death experience you
have, no matter how much power you got...
7 years of being frozen solid without any
movement is not good for anyone.

to help you guys understand,
look at gohan, he got that zanki power up too...
but even with that, 7 years of no trainning was
enough for you guys to deem him weak. now
imagin of he didnt move at all? he'd probably
be the weakest saiyan. even below piccolo.

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These are fan-made terms anywhere so whatever. I'm referring to FPSSJ as the transformation that Goku does before he gets serious in the fight with Cell. Gohan does the same thing before he fights Cell.


I see why you wouldn't call it a transformation because all he's doing is powering up to his fullest. Well, he wasn't this powered up in Movie 8. We just saw him transform to a SSJ1.