Kamikaze Pyro

Aug 4 2011, 11:45 PM

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Not the same level, but to assume a guy taking hits from people with over 300 M in power level and assuming that his power level is under 10 M is ridiculous; even if they were holding back. Its like saying king vegeta (10 k) could of handled taking hits from freiza (500 K+)in first form and still get back up, which is false.

If Freeza is holding back, then of course he could.

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Piccolo beating android 20 isn't power hax. Its power level relation.

What?

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Android 20 < Android 19.

#20 was stronger than #19.

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The relation in series is that they are comparable, having a somewhat rival relationship in power, in which vegeta is much stronger of the two. Using freiza saga as example...Piccolo is over 1 M, vegeta 2.4 M. It was even stated piccolo is was as strong as a SSJ during the android saga by gohan so he's not super weak, and it can be explained logically since he was training with Goku (SSJ) for 3 years.

I don't disagree with this, but what does it have to do with the humans being so strong just because they survived hits from the Cell kids? Tenshinhan survived a kick from Gotenks-Boo, so by this logic, he must be REALLY powerful, even though he's not.

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power level relation is where if one character is of a particular strength in a given arc, the other character(s) are given a comparable boost such that their relation in powers (% whys) to that character is the same in previous arc or close to.

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Also android 20 is weaker than 19. If you hadn't realize the general trend for the androids in the android saga was that the lower the number the stronger the android, 20<19<18<17<16. Also it would only make sense shonen style to have piccolo fight the weaker android seeing vegeta is stronger than him, which toriyama did.

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When Freiza killed king vegeta he was holding back. No power ups, no lunging forward with a hint of anger, just him casually dodging king vegeta punch, and giving him one upper cut.

Kamikaze Pyro

Aug 5 2011, 10:22 AM

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power level relation is where if one character is of a particular strength in a given arc, the other character(s) are given a comparable boost such that their relation in powers (% whys) to that character is the same in previous arc or close to.

So if Vegeta started at 1 and went to 10, and Piccolo started at 0.5, he'd go to 5?

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Also android 20 is weaker than 19. If you hadn't realize the general trend for the androids in the android saga was that the lower the number the stronger the android, 20<19<18<17<16. Also it would only make sense shonen style to have piccolo fight the weaker android seeing vegeta is stronger than him, which toriyama did.

Android #20 states he's stronger than #19 after Goku turns Super Saiyan. After all the aborptions those guys received, it's hard to say who was stronger, though. But beforehand, #20 was stronger, and there'd be no reason for him to be lying about such a thing.

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When Freiza killed king vegeta he was holding back. No power ups, no lunging forward with a hint of anger, just him casually dodging king vegeta punch, and giving him one upper cut.

We don't actually see how Freeza killed King Vegeta, unless you're counting anime filler.

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Precisely. Unless story elements such as zenkai, absorption, new transformations and what not are introduced to affect the relationship in a given story arc.

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Can you please provide the volume,pg and panel where he stated this.

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Fight wise android 19 put up a way better fight against vegeta than android 20 did against piccolo (who is weaker than vegeta).

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Also if he was stronger why would he run away like a little girl when vegeta killed 19 (who supposedly is weaker than 20).

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Well we have the anime as a second cannon. Unless you want to believe fan fiction over something that was specifically shown and not contradicting anything in the manga be my guess.

Kamikaze Pyro

Aug 5 2011, 10:08 PM

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Precisely. Unless story elements such as zenkai, absorption, new transformations and what not are introduced to affect the relationship in a given story arc.

That's not true. Piccolo progressed far more than anybody during the android training, so it doesn't apply at all times.

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Can you please provide the volume,pg and panel where he stated this.

Chapter 340 (DBZ 146), P14.1
Context: after Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan
No.20: “However, this isn’t anything great enough to give us reason to fear. It’s still within a level which even No.19 is more than capable of defeating, and naturally that goes for myself as well…”

And since I know some don't take statements at face value, I'll provide more proof from his bio in Daizenshuu 7.

"This is Doctor Gero's form after he restructured himself into an artificial human to gain eternal life. Though he's stronger than No. 19, he's still considerably inferior to No. 17 and No. 18. Even so, Doctor Gero is truly a genius, familiar with everything from cutting-edge mechatronics to biotechnology."

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Fight wise android 19 put up a way better fight against vegeta than android 20 did against piccolo (who is weaker than vegeta).

Yeah. I don't see how that makes #19 stronger than #20.

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Also if he was stronger why would he run away like a little girl when vegeta killed 19 (who supposedly is weaker than 20).

Because he knew he couldn't fight Vegeta and everybody else at the same time?

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Well we have the anime as a second cannon. Unless you want to believe fan fiction over something that was specifically shown and not contradicting anything in the manga be my guess.

I wouldn't say that, otherwise we'd be able to say Kaio's training boosted the humans up to Ginyu Force level in one week. All we know about Freeza and the King's fight is that Freeza didn't have to transform to beat him. Obviously Freeza can hold back an immense amount of strength, as he didn't kill Nail even while suppressed.

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Yes because that is so hard to believe right ? Yet having a namekian near death, and piccolo being able to fight freiza (1 M over) is totally legit and believable.

Kamikaze Pyro

Aug 5 2011, 10:48 PM

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Yes because that is so hard to believe right ? Yet having a namekian near death, and piccolo being able to fight freiza (1 M over) is totally legit and believable.

Piccolo fused with him. What's hard to believe about that? The humans getting 33x stronger in one week is asinine. If they could do that in one week, considering they were there for about 260 days (if I remember correctly), by the time they're revived they'd be well over 1,000,000,000.

Piccolo fused with a near dead namekian. Also human getting 33x stronger in week is hard to believe compared to say vegeta who recieved 6 k in zenkai after recovering from battle with zarbon, but then recieves 400 k+ after batte with recoome, or gokygoing from 180 k to 3 M from one zenkai, or humans recieving 1000+ in 1 year when goku took 4 years to increase his power by 100.

shonen

Aug 5 2011, 11:00 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Aug 5 2011, 10:48 PM

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Yes because that is so hard to believe right ? Yet having a namekian near death, and piccolo being able to fight freiza (1 M over) is totally legit and believable.

Piccolo fused with him. What's hard to believe about that? The humans getting 33x stronger in one week is asinine. If they could do that in one week, considering they were there for about 260 days (if I remember correctly), by the time they're revived they'd be well over 1,000,000,000.

Piccolo fused with a near dead namekian. Also human getting 33x stronger in week is hard to believe compared to say vegeta who recieved 6 k in zenkai after recovering from battle with zarbon, but then recieves 400 k+ after batte with recoome, or gokygoing from 180 k to 3 M from one zenkai, or humans recieving 1000+ in 1 year when goku took 4 years to increase his power by 100.