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- Dead ssj3 goku vs Evil Buu
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| Dead ssj3 goku vs Evil Buu | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 19 2009, 02:58 AM (1,477 Views) | |
| Qwuall | Dec 19 2009, 02:58 AM Post #1 |
 
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I personally think Goku gets trashed but what do you guys think? |
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| Cooler | Dec 19 2009, 05:59 PM Post #2 |
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I'm not sure where to place Evil Buu, on the one hand he's a portion of Fat Buu's power and Kid Buu > Fat Buu, so logically SSJ3 Goku should wreck Evil Buu. However I've seen theories where its claimed Evil Buu is the evil portion of Fat Buu's absolute power the power he can't access. In which case Good Buu would be just the power of the Kai's (Dai Kaio and South Kai) and Evil Buu would be another form of Kid Buu. If thats the case I see the fight going down in a similar way to the Goku vs Kid Buu fight. |
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| * Itagaki Manabu | Dec 19 2009, 07:13 PM Post #3 |
 
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Im assuming by Evil Buu you mean the Buu that fought Gotenks, If So, Evil Buu would own SSJ3 Goku, Dead or Alive. Goku was a bit stronger than Kid Buu but weaker than Fat Buu. Evil Buu is the strongest Buu (minus the absorbs or Gohan, Gotenks and Piccolo), then Fat Buu, then Kid Buu. |
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| Cooler | Dec 19 2009, 07:52 PM Post #4 |
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Goku isn't stronger than Kid Buu, Kid Buu beat Goku hence...Kid Buu >= Goku SSJ3 Goku stated he could have beaten Fat Buu, he stated he needed everything he had to stand a chance against Kid Buu. Not only that but the presence of Dai Kaio in Fat Buu restricts his power as it supresses the evil that is Kid Buu, hence Kid Buu > Fat Buu. Vegeta fought against Fat Buu but when he saw Kid Buu and SSJ3 Goku he stated they were stronger than he imagined, he fought an angry Fat Buu so his statement implies Kid Buu > Fat Buu. Basically it goes either... Super Buu > Kid Buu > Fat Buu > Evil Buu > Mr Buu or... Super Buu > Kid Buu = Evil Buu > Fat Buu > Mr Buu. By Evil Buu I assume the OP means the Buu which appeared when Fat Buu got angry. |
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| * Itagaki Manabu | Dec 20 2009, 12:19 AM Post #5 |
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Goku couldnt get to full power for some reason, cant remember, He wouldve beaten him if he could. Goku said he couldnt of beaten Fat Buu but Gotenks could or had more of a chance. Fat Kai didnt make Fat Buu weaker, just less evil. I dont remember this in the anime, not sure if it was in the manga either, so, non-canon. Super Buu > Evil Buu>=Fat Buu > Kid Buu I dont know who Mr. Buu is. |
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| Cooler | Dec 20 2009, 12:32 AM Post #6 |
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Goku was at full power at the start of the fight against Kid Buu, this was stated in the Manga I believe he gave it all and was at best even with Kid Buu in hand to hand combat. He couldn't return to full power, Goku could have beaten Kid Buu at full power with a Kamehameha (which amplfies Ki), the fact he wanted absolute full power proves this as if less than full power was required the extra punch of the kamehameha would have made up the difference. Goku lied alot in the Buu arc, he said he was even with Vegeta I don't trust his comment to piccolo especially considering when he was about to face Kid Buu and was speaking aloud to himself he stated he could have beaten Fat Buu. Dai Kaio weakened Buu, stated in the anime and manga. Thats why Super Buu > Fat Buu with the same components. Kid Buu > Fat Buu. Mr Buu is the good portion of Buu. |
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| * Itagaki Manabu | Dec 20 2009, 04:34 AM Post #7 |
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Goku first fought Buu at SSJ2 and he was pretty even, maybe slightly losing, Then he turned SSJ3, so he wasnt at full power, any Kamehameha attempt wouldve been pointless as Buu can regenerate. Fat Buu couldnt have been fought in a SSJ2 state. Find me the page where it says Fat Kai weakened Buu then Ill believe you. |
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| Cooler | Dec 20 2009, 11:58 AM Post #8 |
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The fight against Kid Buu as a SSJ2 is filler, in the Manga he went straight to SSJ3. We know Buu can be beaten by a sufficiently powerful attack otherwise there would be no hope, Goku believed at absolute full power he could do something likely using a kamehameha. Goku states he could have beaten Fat Buu The page after he goes SSJ3 straight away to begin the battle. Dai Kaio made Buu weaker. |
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| * Lord Cooler | Dec 20 2009, 12:23 PM Post #9 |
Lord of the Ice-Jins
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So if he really wanted Goku could have killed fat Buu when he had the chance and saved everyone a lot of trouble |
 Thanks to + Rebel X for the awesome sig above.  Thanks to Anonymous23 (Ana) for the awesome sig above. Don't forget to participate in the Dragon Ball Rewatch! Lord Cooler - I am the supreme master of this universe. I am the great destroyer, the taker of life. I kill when I want, the weak die and the strong survive. Saiyan insect, prepare to be squashed. | |
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| * Psyam | Dec 20 2009, 05:00 PM Post #10 |
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Mangafox isn't accurate in translations. Goku said he probably could of beaten Fat Buu, not that he definitely could, and this was when he was still overestimating himself before testing his SSJ3 powers against Kid Buu. Also, Goku was dead when he fought Fat Buu and able to use SSJ3 to it's fullest potential, he could not against Kid Buu because he was living again. Furthermore, if we go by the manga Goku never fought Fat Buu long enough to be able to estimate his true power. They exchanged only a few blows and shot a Kamehameha at each other, that was it. Fat Buu was smiling...he never went all out on anyone. To my knowledge in the original English manga the word weakened wasn't mentioned, just "more controllable", but someone would have to check. Dai Kaio's influence probably does weaken Buu, but only a little and not enough to outweigh the power he gained from him, making Super Buu still somewhat stronger. You have your "Kai's were all weaker then SSJ Gohan" thing but I don't agree with that at all. The only reason we have to assume Fat Buu is weaker then Kid Buu is Goku saying he could PROBABLY of beaten him, but we know at the time Goku said that he was still overestimating himself because he still thought he could beat Kid Buu as well, not to mention just after he'd fought Fat Buu he admitted to Piccolo he didn't know if he could beat him or not. I think he was just overconfident before the fight with Kid Buu. He said he could definitely beat Kid Buu if he had been able to get to full power, if Goku had been dead he could of definitely got full power, therefore definitely beat Kid Buu. He only said he <probably> could of beat Fat Buu, if he had gone all out WHILE DEAD. Fat Buu >= Kid Buu imo, he just never showed his real power because he just wants to play with his opponents. Anyway...Evil Buu is pretty much just another form of Kid Buu, Goku could of beat Kid Buu if he could reach full power, which he would be able to if he was dead, therefore he should be able to beat Evil Buu with a full power Kamehameha as well. |
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| Cooler | Dec 20 2009, 05:51 PM Post #11 |
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Manga Volume has the exact same quote, I'm not sure where else to look? Goku stating he probably could beat Fat Buu compared to I need everything I have to stand a chance still puts Kid Buu at a higher level. I've already shown that Goku intended to use a ki amplifiing technique like a Kamehameha on Kid Buu, this explains why 100% was needed and he couldn't get away with 90%. Goku was dead yes but he was at full power against Kid Buu in the beginning, Goku also made the statements about Kid Buu and Fat Buu before he realized the amount of stress SSJ3 would put on his living body so in Goku's estimation Kid Buu > Fat Buu. Smiling does not mean not trying, Goku obviously wasn't going all out either he was stalling for time. But if you want to comment on the battle Fat Buu couldn't even phase Goku with a direct punch. I believe Goku and Vegeta were smiling during their battle in the Buu arc? Or is that just in the anime? They were smiling and giving it everything they had. Its pretty much accepted fact that Dai Kaio weakened and lessoned Buu's power, thats why Super Buu > Fat Buu... It was stated that no one in recorded knowledge had been strong ernough to pull the Z sword from the stone, this should include the Kai's. SSJ Gohan managed it hence Gohan > Kai's... There's no reason to think Fat Buu is stronger than Kid Buu, we have a statement from Goku saying he could have beaten Fat Buu. We then have a statement stating that Kid Buu will require everything he has to stand a chance, Vegeta also claims both are stronger than he imagined. He fought an angry Fat Buu and witnessed some of the goings on on Earth from Other world so he knows what he's talking about. He lied to Piccolo just like he lied earlier when he stated he was even with Vegeta, he admitted he wanted to let the kids fight and save the world and thats why he didn't finish off Buu. He's not going to admit that he was a complete fool and instead of finishing Buu he left it to some kids. The fact he didn't even try to finish off Buu himself proves this,. Kid Buu proved to be at least Goku SSJ3's equal even when Goku was at full power at the beginning of the battle, Goku SSJ3 > Fat Buu so therefore Kid Buu also > Fat Buu. Goku never stated needing to go all out against Fat Buu, I also would like to see a page with the word probably in front of it. Please demonstrate where Fat Buu demonstrated this dormant power which surpasses Kid Buu, I never saw it. Fat Buu can't access anywhere near his full power due to Dai Kaio's influence if he could Fat Buu = Super Buu. Super Buu > Kid Buu > Fat Buu |
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| * Psyam | Dec 20 2009, 06:58 PM Post #12 |
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Most of this we've been through before in other topics now, it comes down to how we both interpret things. You'd have to find someone who has the proper English manga. You can't decide such a big topic on the online ones as they do vary quite a bit, especially when a few words can make all the difference. But honestly, Goku could NOT have defeated Fat Buu. It wouldn't of been possible. He used all his time up just transforming into a SSJ3 and distracting Buu, he didn't have enough time/energy to be able to defeat Fat Buu then, if he had tried to charge up he would of ran out of time... PROVE that Fat Buu is weaker then Kid Buu. Prove it. Goku's statement that he <probably> could of beaten him, when he almost definitely didn't have time to, is not enough. Dai Kaio did have a negative influence on him but there's nothing to say it made him weaker then Kid Buu. Goku is a trained fighter who can deal with a lot more then a single punch without crying like a baby, him smiling means nothing. We know he gets excited at the thought of a strong opponent. I said Fat Buu was smiling merely to show he wasn't worried about Goku. Both of them were happy to find a strong adversary. There's also no reason to think Kid Buu is any stronger then Fat Buu. We have a statement from Goku saying he probably could of beaten Fat Buu WHILE DEAD, which he probably couldn't because he didn't have the time to anyway, and we have a statement that he could beat Kid Buu while alive (weaker/less efficient SSJ3) if he had been able to attack him at full power. Vegeta's claim is null as Fat Buu didn't go all out on him, Goku said an Ascended Saiyan was no problem for Fat Buu. He could have been truthful to Piccolo. Goku isn't one to be afraid of being thought of being a fool. He had no reason to lie at that point, he had to leave, Piccolo wasn't going to say "Well get down there and kill him then" when Goku had half an hour left. He had no reason to be making it up at that point and it makes more sense then saying he could of beat him as he wouldn't of had the time to defeat Fat Buu anyway. Kid Buu doesn't hold back, he's brutal. Fat Buu does and just plays. Also, Goku was stronger against Fat Buu then he was against Kid Buu due to being dead. Please show where Kid Buu demonstrated that he was stronger then Fat Buu, who never revealed his full potential in the two proper battles he had, one where he greatly outmatched his opponent and the other which was merely a short distraction. Neither of us anything absolute to go on, that's why it's such a popular debate. IMO, Super Buu > Fat Buu >= Kid Buu. Edited by Psyam, Dec 20 2009, 07:03 PM.
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| Qwuall | Dec 20 2009, 07:24 PM Post #13 |
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Ummm By evil buu I did mean the Skinny boxer buu that absorbed the good buu. I know that Super buu > Kid buu > SS3 Goku > Majin Buu > Good Buu. And I predict Evil buu is somewhere in between Kid and Majin. I would say he's 75-70% of super buu's power. Goku is dead and therefore can stay in ssj3 longer and pump out more energy then he did against kid buu so he does have more stamina. My reasoning is That if evil buu is equal or even a little weaker then Kid buu he'd fight as hard as he can and so would win. He doesn't fool around at all. In fact I think if Evil buu were to go head to head wiith Kid buu he'd have a strong chance of winning simply because he would go hardcore from start to finish. but thats my opinion. In any case I didn't want this to become another kid or super buu versus goku becuase it's either directly stated and shown he can't beat either. Goku isn't one to not slack in a fight. against vegeta he did his best and lost. Against frieza he gave it his all and even knowing he'll die he went at it. agianst Cell even though he knew he couldnt win and thought gohan would finish it anyway, he gave it his all. Directly stated by everyone including cell and himself. every battle in Dragonball he tried his hardest. Goku fights to win. I doubt he would really not try his hardest against the universes greatest threats. So I can confidently say Kid beat him fair and square. and Super would cream him. I think he could've beat majin Buu out of sheer determination but it wouldn't be as easy as he might have let on. Infact he hadn't even seen Buu's true regeneration abilities at that point in time. This might be the only fight where he doesn't go all out because as he stated, being ssj3 while being dead did dramastically reduce his time on earth therefore he wanted to make sure he had the kids prepeared as they wouldv'e been the only hope. I don't think he cared if they were stronger or good enough. He simply knew they were the only ones alive who had a chance. This is the only fight where he did not give it his all, in fear of what would happen if his time were to run out. He didn't want to risk it. About the Kamehameha amplifing. I think it's only using the potential energy of it's user. If goku is already ssj3 the wave would be easier or faster to use since he is already going his maximum, unlike his base form where he would have to charge his potential ki. Edited by Qwuall, Dec 20 2009, 08:37 PM.
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| Graffiti | Dec 20 2009, 08:23 PM Post #14 |
MGD.
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Evil Buu would win the fight, hands down. |
DBZF Original, 2005-present  "When backed into a corner, you are the most fearsome fighter!" Piccolo [Portifolio | Str8 Outta Namek (DBZF's only Hip Hop Club) | MyAnimeList] | |
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| Emperor Cold | Dec 21 2009, 08:50 PM Post #15 |
Makaioshin
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Alright I have the viz manga right in front of me. Here is the dialouge between Old Kai and Kibitokai pertaining to Kid Boo: Old Kai: "So the souls he ate tamed him...then...this Boo is the very first, most difficult one? Kibito Kai: "...yes...he's lost the soul he gained...this Boo...is evil incarnate." At no point does he say anything about the Kais weakening him. Also the quote from Goku about him being able to beat Fat Boo was immediately followed by a shot of Vegeta flying away, with Goku thinking "Hey! He's not even listening..." This suggests that he might have said it just to save face in front of Vegeta. Also later on after fighting Boo as ssj3, he says "Maybe I tried to act too cool...but I thought this would be better..." This shows that he was overconfident in his initial estimations. My theory about Fat Boo is that he has the same raw power as Super Boo, but he only accesses it when he is experiencing intense emotions. Wheras Super Boo is constantly at full power, making him appear more powerful. And I also think Skinny Boo is stronger than Kid Boo because he took a bit of the Kais power with him in the split (notice he still had Dai Kaio's vest). Also Evil Boo defeated Good Boo much more easily and quickly than Kid Boo did. So the bottom line is...Evil Boo pwns Goku. 
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