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| Cold Family and their Transformations; Freeza, Cooler, and King Cold. | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 26 2009, 12:18 AM (278 Views) | |
| Super Goku | Nov 26 2009, 12:18 AM Post #1 |
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Vizard Jinchurikii
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This is sort of branching off of the "King Cold and movie 7" thread. I want to discuss the increases in power between freeza's forms. If we can find that, we could discover how strong Cooler's 5th form is, and therefore use that pattern to try to figre out how strong King Cold's transformations would be, if he had any. I say "If he had any" because i dont think he has any. If he had transformations, he would have transformed vs. SSJ Trunks, an would not have let him kill him so effortlessly. With all that said, I put in spoiler tags my crazy long opinion on what i think about the forms. I came up with some theories based the Daizenshuu power levels, and tried to target the exact numbers and equations involved in the transformations. Of course they are all nearly guestimations built upon more guestimations, so i imagine everyone here has a different opinion on the matter and i would love if they shared it. this first spoiler tag is my thoughts on freeza's power levels. Spoiler: click to toggle This next spoiler tag includes my flawed theory on Cooler's 5th form PL in relation to Goku's increased pwoer SSJ Form (that is, after training on yardrat.) Spoiler: click to toggle This last tag is about King Cold. Because i have ideas about increases in power between forms, i applied them to what could be King Cold's PL. Spoiler: click to toggle So, if you took your valuable time to read all that, and comprehend it, i applaud you.. If we agree on something, perhaps we could even try to pinpoint a PL of a 6th form. however, its still useless if we just use numbers, since i dont have accurate numbers for cell and boo, in relation to these numbers. go. |
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| Lord Cooler | Nov 26 2009, 12:58 AM Post #2 |
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That indeed was a lot to read but a good read you know your stuff. I'm going to watch Revenge of Cooler now and the episode with Cold and i'll post my opinion soon. Yeah watching them didn't help haha. Edited by Lord Cooler, Nov 26 2009, 11:29 AM.
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![]() Thanks to Ana and Hustla for the sigs Cooler - I kill when i want! The weak die and the strong survive! Goku - I'll just have to try harder, Cooler By all means try. Ultimate Gohan - Whats the matter Buu Buu, Super Buu - BUU NOT BUU BUU!!!! | |
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| Timmooo | Nov 26 2009, 11:49 AM Post #3 |
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Well from my opinion I saw it more as Cold in his second form and could possibly be towards that power level, though I do doubt the multipliers are quite that high. I reckon the only reason he didnt transform was that he underestimated Trunks power. And by the time he realised it was too late. Or possibly as he would be older than his sons perhaps he had been in his form for so long that he could no longer transform. But if we look at them as a family it stands to reason that Cold must have had transformations too. ~Tim |
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| Cooler | Nov 26 2009, 12:54 PM Post #4 |
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Ok now time for my long post on the transformations. Now I will do 2 sets of powerlevels one based on my own reasonings and one based on the Daiz. Frieza's first form is litterally stated to be 530,000 so I will stick with that in both lists, I reckon Frieza form two is around 1,300,000 or so and that number will be the same for both. Where the difficulty comes is from gauging Form three's power, it made Piccolo look like nothing and I reckon Piccolo was around 1,500,000 at the time. So I think a power level of 3,000,000 is reasonable for Frieza's 3rd form (I know thats what the Daiz says for his final form but I'm going to ignore it). Now Frieza's form 4 supressed is still superior to his third form, Piccolo, Krillin and Gohan couldn't even follow his movements so I think 4 million is a safe number to put him at. We know from Goku's Kaiokenx20 that Frieza was initially at about 3% of his full power (Goku kaiokenx20 = 50% of Frieza's power so his base is 2.5% of Frieza's full power and Frieza was slightly superior to Goku). So maybe a full power of Frieza of around 135,000,000! Not sure where I would put Goku SSJ but probably around that level, the multipler of 50x for SSJ is something I believe but Goku was weakened from the battle so he wasn't as strong as he could have been. That accounts for a fairly even battle until Frieza ran out of juice. So form 4 Frieza is roughly still 100x stronger than form 2 as with the Daiz. My reasoning for my own power levels is that the Daiz does have mistakes in it thus its not completely reliable and I think 3 million is too low for Frieza form 4. That takes care of Frieza.... Now for Cooler, this movie is about a year or so later in that time Goku would have increased in strength significantly. I think a 2x increase especially after his near death experience at the hands of Cooler (which may have been significant enough to give him to edge later on) is reasonable. So maybe have Goku at about 8 million, at this level (WITHOUT Kaioken) he was able to go toe to toe with Cooler in his base 4th form. For ease of calculating lets call 4th form Cooler 8 million as well, he may have been able to power up but seeing as we never saw it I'm going to say it wasn't significant. Once he powers up he easily defeats Goku even with kaiokenx20, at this level Goku should be hovering around 160 million! He even takes a direct kamehameha and flies through it! The kamehameha is stated to increase ki when you fire it, so Cooler should be around the 300 million mark. I'd call the increase Cooler got around a 35x increase! If we go by the Daiz, then increase is the same but the power levels are about 30% lower. So the rough power increases are; Form 2 = 2.4x Form 3 = 2x Form 4 = 50'ishx Form 5 = 35x Cold to me looked like he was in his 2nd form, so if we apply the same logic as that of his sons and place Cold above a supressed Mecha Frieza at base... - 70 million form 2 - 140 million form 3 - 7 billion form 4. - 245 billion... So basically Cold would be stronger than Vegito if he could transform all the way up to Coolers 5th stage. |
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| BattleMetal | Nov 27 2009, 12:44 AM Post #5 |
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Nah i dont agree with any of these power levels. I dont believe Frieza power level goes through a multiplier (eg 2 times or 50 times) just more of an add on of strength (like say 100+50=150). This Daisenzu (sp) thing that i hear people go on about sounds like it is a really bad reference point for power levels in my opinion. The people who made that lost my respect when i heard how crazy the made Friezas power level in his final form, there is no need for him to be that strong at that point in the series. So here is my theories. Frieza FORM 1= 250,000 (facing Nail, one handed) - 530,000 (facing Vegeta and Gohan and Krillin) FORM 2= 750,000 (Gohan overwhelms him for a bit) - 850,000 (facing Piccolo 1st) - 1,050,000 (full) FORM 3= 1,500,000 (he easily beats Piccolo and you dont need to have a massive edge in power to beat someone, Gohan pushes him with his power forcing him to change) I always felt like the first 3 forms we see where similiar so the power increase is not as dramatic, being more similiar in increase. What he attains when he goes into his final true state is much more. FORM 4= 3,000,000 (when facing Vegeta and Goku at 1%) - 6,500,000 (50%) - 13,000,000 (100%) I think the main confusion about Frieza power level in final form comes from the how Goku was able to hold his own, supposedly at only his base. I believe from the very start of the fight Goku was using KaioKen (wasnt times 10 right away). Later Goku uses times 10 but still cant overcome the tyrant who is only using 50% of his full power, so Goku is forced to go beyond his limits and double his threshold to KaioKen times 20 with a KameHameHa on top. The strange thing is that this attack at his sudden boosted level should have destroyed Frieza 50% but the tyrant is able to push back the attack with one hand. THEORY: Maybe Frieza has some sort of chi attack resistance that is natural to him, that along with his superior strength would make him harder to beat. Notice i only said RESISTANT i didnt say he was PROOF, so is not immune to chi type attacks but he nullifies the full impact by a certain percentage. When Mecha Frieza and King Kold come to earth it is stated that 'There are two massive power levels of nearly the same strength' (words to that effect). I think Kold was in his final state but maybe because he had been in this form for so long it was able to equal strength Friezas Final form 1%, but not surpass it as Frieza was the Emperor of the Universe. I believe when Mecha-Frieza first arrives on Earth he was only at 1% of his true power, and he had the potential to go beyond his 100% level BUT wasnt expecting to face an enemy as strong as Trunks, so was not prepared. Mecha-Frieza= 3,000,000 (1%) - 18,500,000 (potentially, i heard he could go to 150% somewhere in anime so might be filler. Doesnt mean his new body could have handled the strain so might have ripped himself apart anyway) Edited by BattleMetal, Nov 27 2009, 12:45 AM.
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| Lord Cooler | Nov 27 2009, 01:01 AM Post #6 |
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What's your theory on Cooler? |
![]() Thanks to Ana and Hustla for the sigs Cooler - I kill when i want! The weak die and the strong survive! Goku - I'll just have to try harder, Cooler By all means try. Ultimate Gohan - Whats the matter Buu Buu, Super Buu - BUU NOT BUU BUU!!!! | |
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| BattleMetal | Nov 27 2009, 01:47 AM Post #7 |
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Mmm? Cooler is a movie character but i will give it a crack. I dont think Goku got any stronger (in just his base), more that he was able to master his powers better. He was able to use KaioKen times 20 more effectively without it killing him, Cooler really struggled to handle this in his 4th form. Ive read that Cooler was inferior to Frieza when they where both in their 4th forms but he was able to surpass Frieza when he evolved into his 5th battle state. In his 5th he overcomes Gokus KaioKen strength but as soon as Goku goes Super Saiyan the fight becomes very one sided, Cooler doesnt even budge Goku with a punch. Its only when it comes to a fight of wills and raw power, Coolers Super Nova versus Gokus KameHameHa that Cooler is able to somewhat push SS Goku. Goku with some training must have increased the strength of his Super Saiyan level a small bit compared to when he fought Frieza on Namek. Cooler= 8,000,000 (4th Form) - 14,500,000 (5th Form so an increase but not overly higher compared to 100% 4th form Frieza, just enough to gain victory) If Frieza was able to attain a 5th form also and maxed out his 100% 4th form then he would have crushed SS Goku on Namek. If Frieza had attained this new form after Namek and fought Goku on Earth over a year or so later then the fight would have much more equal and would have come to a battle of wills, strategy and techniques. Frieza= 13,000,000 (100% 4th form) - 18,000,000 (5th form potential) |
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| Lord Cooler | Nov 30 2009, 04:01 AM Post #8 |
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But in movie 5 Cooler states that Frieza was a pest he would have killed him himself and was always trying to beat him, trying to prove that he deffinitly had the edge. So Cooler must have beat him every time they fought. Then again it could be Cooler's cockiness speaking. |
![]() Thanks to Ana and Hustla for the sigs Cooler - I kill when i want! The weak die and the strong survive! Goku - I'll just have to try harder, Cooler By all means try. Ultimate Gohan - Whats the matter Buu Buu, Super Buu - BUU NOT BUU BUU!!!! | |
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| Super Goku | Dec 1 2009, 02:36 AM Post #9 |
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Vizard Jinchurikii
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no, cooler said freeza had a slight advantage. A SLIGHT one. not as big as the one that battlemetal displayed, i dont think., |
![]() BURNING HELL FTW | |
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| Brian | Dec 1 2009, 03:19 AM Post #10 |
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Homosexual Ogre
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Wouldn't Frieza have just rose against and killed King Cold if he could? I mean, that's Frieza we're talking about here. If he could be the mightiest, I'm sure he's going to try and take it. I imagine Cold was stronger than he appeared. |
![]() "They wanna take your women." - Too inappropriate for DBZF | |
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| Turrin | Dec 1 2009, 04:23 AM Post #11 |
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New member, but i always found this interesting. Clearly King Cold had two more forms the reason being is he is clearly in his second form and its stated by Zarbon that the transformations aren't products of a person increasing their power, but rather decreasing their power. Considering King Cold was in Form 2 and he was stronger then Mecha Frieza he probably had a power level in the billions in his true form and yes he had a true form since he was frieza's father and therefore his true form would look like 4th form frieza. So i woulld say he would probably be around the level of Cell in his Super Perfect form. SSj2 would probably beat him but just barely much like Super Perfect Form Cell. |
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| Brian | Dec 1 2009, 05:03 AM Post #12 |
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Homosexual Ogre
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Are you serious? My god, what a statement... Jumping to Semi-Perfect Cell alone would be shocking. Where can you possibly conclude that he would gain such an absurd amount of power? |
![]() "They wanna take your women." - Too inappropriate for DBZF | |
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| Lord Cooler | Dec 1 2009, 09:20 AM Post #13 |
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When does Cooler say that? I have watched the movie so many times lol |
![]() Thanks to Ana and Hustla for the sigs Cooler - I kill when i want! The weak die and the strong survive! Goku - I'll just have to try harder, Cooler By all means try. Ultimate Gohan - Whats the matter Buu Buu, Super Buu - BUU NOT BUU BUU!!!! | |
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| Timmooo | Dec 1 2009, 09:26 AM Post #14 |
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I'd actually be inclined to agree that there would be a substantial increase, maybe not quite to that level but close. There would be a reason he is still around and a ruler despite having such strong children. I definitely think he would have transformations and his final state would be rather epic indeed. ~Tim |
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| Lord Cooler | Dec 1 2009, 09:31 AM Post #15 |
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Would his final state be form 4 or 5? |
![]() Thanks to Ana and Hustla for the sigs Cooler - I kill when i want! The weak die and the strong survive! Goku - I'll just have to try harder, Cooler By all means try. Ultimate Gohan - Whats the matter Buu Buu, Super Buu - BUU NOT BUU BUU!!!! | |
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