Frieza vs. Pui Pui

Rotation Advertisements

We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum.

If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away.

Click here to Register!

If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk

If you're already a member please log in to your account:

Pages:
1
…
9
10
11

Frieza vs. Pui Pui; Who Wins
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 2 2009, 02:04 AM (15,597 Views)
+ Pyrus	Jan 16 2013, 08:59 PM Post #136
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Listen to Znet. He's the smartest guy on the planet when it comes to DBZ knowledge. Just look at his argument with all those statements and facts. It makes me shudder to even think about opposing him again.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


Zenet	Jan 16 2013, 09:21 PM Post #137
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Kamikaze Pyro Jan 16 2013, 08:59 PM Listen to Znet. He's the smartest guy on the planet when it comes to DBZ knowledge. Just look at his argument with all those statements and facts. It makes me shudder to even think about opposing him again. Znet > > > > KP



Nanho	Jan 16 2013, 09:33 PM Post #138
Posts: 464 Group: Probation Member #8,818 Joined: January 6, 2013	Quote: When people rely on the gravity argument for Pui-Pui, it makes my inner demon laugh uncontrollably. It's quite pathetic. Why would one not consider it? Its really the only statement on his power, or durability? And if its to demonstrate the durability of his opponent. Then why would the author have him brag, after stressing throughout the series its relation with power to the audience? I mean if hes(vegeta) that fast and strong at normal gravity how much of a decrease 10xgravity be?I think its more of a sign of weakness to the viewers; It was never shown to be more about durability than power, a strong character has never been shown struggling in a gravity another character with similar strength can easily move in. Quote: Then you need to take a course in progressive narrative. Nah. The fact that hes been proven wrong many times really speaks for itself. and how is it that your more open to believing goku wasnt talking about perfect cell when he was comparing cell to dabura but not this? Quote: All of those were explained, i.e. contradicted. Are you telling me AT isn't innovative? And likes to make stories predictable. Quote: He wondered why Vegeta was fighting Pui-Pui alone. He outright said they needed to gang up on Yakon. He would've rather killed himself than fought Dabura. He misjudged vegetas strength. Again he may predicted vegeta to be at the level he was when he was under the command of frieza. and he overestimated Yokans speed or else why would he ask gohan to gang up on him when he already knows the amount of power gohan has at his disposal? Edited by Nanho, Jan 16 2013, 09:41 PM.



Mike XL	Jan 16 2013, 09:33 PM Post #139
Posts: 1,181 Group: Member Member #8,239 Joined: September 4, 2012 Favourite Anime Dragonball, Dragonball Z, Gundam Seed, Death Note, Bleach, Yu Yu Hakusho	Kamikaze Pyro Jan 16 2013, 08:49 PM When people rely on the gravity argument for Pui-Pui, it makes my inner demon laugh uncontrollably. It's quite pathetic. Nanho That wasn't stated in the manga. Then you need to take a course in progressive narrative. Quote: By this logic, this would be correct: Dabura> Yokan> pui pui > cell and kid buu >buuhan> buutenks All of those were explained, i.e. contradicted. Quote: also supreme kai never said anything about not wanting to fight anyone.. He wondered why Vegeta was fighting Pui-Pui alone. He outright said they needed to gang up on Yakon. He would've rather killed himself than fought Dabura. I don't know why the gravity argument is laughable to you. He was noticeably excited. Why? It's a legitimate point. Supressed base Vegeta absolutely tooled Pui Pui. I don't have the base Sayians over Piccolo. I think this all hinges on how strong you see the base Sayians. I have full power base Vegeta at 390,000,000 during the time he was in Babadis ship. He was likely suppressed and tooled Pui Pui. How much stronger could he have possibly been than Freiza? And even if he was marginally stronger than him, why is Kaioshin getting so worked up?



+ Pyrus	Jan 16 2013, 09:45 PM Post #140
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Nanho Jan 16 2013, 09:33 PM Quote: When people rely on the gravity argument for Pui-Pui, it makes my inner demon laugh uncontrollably. It's quite pathetic. Why would one not consider it? Its really the only statement on his power, or durability? Because the context is ignored. People see him brag about 10G and automatically assume he MUST be weaker than someone like Raditz. Quote: And if its to demonstrate the durability of his opponent. Then why would the author have him brag, after stressing throughout the series its relation with power to the audience? is obviously as a sign of weakness to the viewers; It was never shown to be more about durability than power, a strong character has never been shown struggling in a gravity another character with similar strength can easily move in. Base Kid Trunks > C18 Yet he couldn't move in 150G while 90,000 Goku mastered 100G on the way to Namek. Quote: Nah. The fact that hes been proven wrong many times really speaks for itself. Vegeta's been wrong about quite a few things but we can't throw his statements out until he's proven wrong in that instance. What proves Kaioshin wrong in this instance? Quote: and how is it that your more open to believing goku wasnt talking about perfect cell when he was comparing cell to dabura but not this? Because the Dabura situation has visible context to go from. Gohan was a Super Saiyan (IMO) and had gotten weaker over the years (stated), so if he was still giving Dabura a good fight, then Dabura can't be anywhere near Cell's strongest. Quote: Are you telling me AT isn't innovative? And likes to make stories predictable. I'm telling you he clearly laid out the strength chain: Kid Boo was not the strongest Boo, and Babidi's henchmen were not stronger than Cell. Quote: He misjudged vegetas strength. Again he may predicted vegeta to be at the level he was when he was under the command of frieza. After he heard Vegeta say he was confident in facing Goku, whom he (Kaioshin) admitted inferiority to at the tournament? Quote: and he overestimated Yokans speed or else why would he ask gohan to gang up on him when he already knows the amount of power gohan has at his disposal? It's shown that he wasn't thinking about SSjin 2 Gohan until after Goku had blown Yakon away. Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.5 Context: Vegeta and Goku talk about Dabra not being so tough Kaioshin: “Un-unbelievable. Is this ‘Super Saiyan’ thing really this great?...Come to think of it, it was quite hard to stop Son Gohan from moving after he became a Super Saiyan…And even that might not have been his full power… Mike XL Jan 16 2013, 09:33 PM Kamikaze Pyro Jan 16 2013, 08:49 PM When people rely on the gravity argument for Pui-Pui, it makes my inner demon laugh uncontrollably. It's quite pathetic. Nanho That wasn't stated in the manga. Then you need to take a course in progressive narrative. Quote: By this logic, this would be correct: Dabura> Yokan> pui pui > cell and kid buu >buuhan> buutenks All of those were explained, i.e. contradicted. Quote: also supreme kai never said anything about not wanting to fight anyone.. He wondered why Vegeta was fighting Pui-Pui alone. He outright said they needed to gang up on Yakon. He would've rather killed himself than fought Dabura. I don't know why the gravity argument is laughable to you. He was noticeably excited. Why? It's a legitimate point. "Because the context is ignored. People see him brag about 10G and automatically assume he MUST be weaker than someone like Raditz." Quote: Supressed base Vegeta absolutely tooled Pui Pui. I don't have the base Sayians over Piccolo. I think this all hinges on how strong you see the base Sayians. I have full power base Vegeta at 390,000,000 during the time he was in Babadis ship. He was likely suppressed and tooled Pui Pui. How much stronger could he have possibly been than Freiza? And even if he was marginally stronger than him, why is Kaioshin getting so worked up? Base Future Trunks turned Super Saiyan to destroy the future androids, implying he was weaker than both of them or stronger than one and couldn't handle both at the same time. Cell Games Vegeta was a bit stronger than him at best. Cell Games Goku blew Vegeta out of the water, but Vegeta was still noticeably ahead of half his full power. Cell Games Gohan made Goku look like a turd. Boo arc Goku barely surpassed Cell Games Gohan, and the gap between Gokes and Veggie stayed the same by Veggie's admission, so he'd be blowing Boo arc Vegeta (pre-Majin) out of the water as well. Then you have Base Kid Trunks fighting on par with C18 in a restrictive costume, who's only a little stronger than Goten, who's a rival to Teen Gohan. Edited by Pyrus, Jan 16 2013, 09:52 PM.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


Zenet	Jan 16 2013, 09:53 PM Post #141
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Mike XL Jan 16 2013, 09:33 PM Kamikaze Pyro Jan 16 2013, 08:49 PM When people rely on the gravity argument for Pui-Pui, it makes my inner demon laugh uncontrollably. It's quite pathetic. Nanho That wasn't stated in the manga. Then you need to take a course in progressive narrative. Quote: By this logic, this would be correct: Dabura> Yokan> pui pui > cell and kid buu >buuhan> buutenks All of those were explained, i.e. contradicted. Quote: also supreme kai never said anything about not wanting to fight anyone.. He wondered why Vegeta was fighting Pui-Pui alone. He outright said they needed to gang up on Yakon. He would've rather killed himself than fought Dabura. I don't know why the gravity argument is laughable to you. He was noticeably excited. Why? It's a legitimate point. Supressed base Vegeta absolutely tooled Pui Pui. I don't have the base Sayians over Piccolo. I think this all hinges on how strong you see the base Sayians. I have full power base Vegeta at 390,000,000 during the time he was in Babadis ship. He was likely suppressed and tooled Pui Pui. How much stronger could he have possibly been than Freiza? And even if he was marginally stronger than him, why is Kaioshin getting so worked up? Base/ Goku Vegeta rival piccolo because SSJ decreased during Buu arc. that explains why Vegeta hadn’t suprased Kid gohan as SSJ2 remember he trained hard for 7 years. So by that pui pui could be much stronger than frizea.



Nanho	Jan 16 2013, 10:20 PM Post #142
Posts: 464 Group: Probation Member #8,818 Joined: January 6, 2013	Quote: Because the context is ignored. People see him brag about 10G and automatically assume he MUST be weaker than someone like Raditz. The context is not being ignored.. Quote: Base Kid Trunks > C18 Yet he couldn't move in 150G while 90,000 Goku mastered 100G on the way to Namek. How is base kid trunk> 18 that doesnt make any sense But I'm glad you brought up something to help my argument: trunks has never been under any gravity. Struggles in base but moves around easily in ssj at 150!! It just shows you it has alot more to do with strengh/power than durability. Quote: *Vegeta's been wrong about quite a few things but we can't throw his statements out until he's proven wrong in that instance.* What proves Kaioshin wrong in this instance? Yes but if there are several similar instances to the one in question, then its only logical to discredit him in the other.. Quote: Because the Dabura situation has visible context to go from. Gohan was a Super Saiyan (IMO) and had gotten weaker over the years (stated), so if he was still giving Dabura a good fight, then Dabura can't be anywhere near Cell's strongest. Giving him a good fight? in the anime maybe. But in the manga, dabura was obviously toying with gohan.. Quote: I'm telling you he clearly laid out the strength chain: Kid Boo was not the strongest Boo, and Babidi's henchmen were not stronger than Cell. Unless he says it then no. In my eyes he was being innovative. and not trying to contradict himself by making another villain from that universe as strong as frieza. Quote: After he heard Vegeta say he was confident in facing Goku, whom he (Kaioshin) admitted inferiority to at the tournament? Where in the manga is it stated he overheard their conversation? Quote: It's shown that he wasn't thinking about SSjin 2 Gohan until after Goku had blown Yakon away. What?? So after witnessing it at the tournament, saying its not as he expected. and having to be the one to immobilize him so that babidids minions can get the energy, hes just going to forget all that...that doesnt make any sense man. Edited by Nanho, Jan 16 2013, 10:25 PM.



Zenet	Jan 16 2013, 10:25 PM Post #143
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Nanho Jan 16 2013, 10:20 PM Quote: Because the context is ignored. People see him brag about 10G and automatically assume he MUST be weaker than someone like Raditz. The contex is not being ignored.. Quote: Base Kid Trunks > C18 Yet he couldn't move in 150G while 90,000 Goku mastered 100G on the way to Namek. How is base kid trunk> 18 that doesnt make any sense But I'm glad you brought up something to help my argument: trunks has never been under any gravity. Struggles in base but moves around easily in ssj at 150!! It just shows you it has alot more to do with strengh/power than durability. Quote: *Vegeta's been wrong about quite a few things but we can't throw his statements out until he's proven wrong in that instance.* What proves Kaioshin wrong in this instance? Yes but if there are several similar instances to the one in question, then its only logical to discredit him in the other.. Quote: Because the Dabura situation has visible context to go from. Gohan was a Super Saiyan (IMO) and had gotten weaker over the years (stated), so if he was still giving Dabura a good fight, then Dabura can't be anywhere near Cell's strongest. Giving him a good fight? in the anime maybe. But in the manga, dabura was obviously toying gohan.. Quote: I'm telling you he clearly laid out the strength chain: Kid Boo was not the strongest Boo, and Babidi's henchmen were not stronger than Cell. Unless he says it then no. In my eyes he was being innovative. and not trying to contradict himself by making another villain from that universe as strong as frieza. Quote: After he heard Vegeta say he was confident in facing Goku, whom he (Kaioshin) admitted inferiority to at the tournament? Where in the manga is it stated he overheard their conversation? Quote: It's shown that he wasn't thinking about SSjin 2 Gohan until after Goku had blown Yakon away. What?? So after witnessing it at the tournament, saying its not as he expected. and having to be the one to immobilize so that babidids minions can get the energy, hes just going to forget all that...that doesnt make any sense man. Base Kids were rivaling the andriod in that fight. I would assume The base kids are around Trunks/Vegeta at base during cell games. Edited by Zenet, Jan 16 2013, 10:26 PM.



Nanho	Jan 16 2013, 10:33 PM Post #144
Posts: 464 Group: Probation Member #8,818 Joined: January 6, 2013	Quote: Base Kids were rivaling the andriod in that fight. I would assume The base kids are around Trunks/Vegeta at base during cell games. They arent rivaling 18..shes clearly relaxed..up until they turned ssj, then she says ''this might get dangerous'', implying if she got serious the fight could result in people getting killed.. Edited by Nanho, Jan 16 2013, 10:34 PM.



Alex D. Boss	Jan 16 2013, 10:34 PM Post #145
Posts: 8,688 Group: Probation Member #8,536 Joined: November 8, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	Herms is a respected guy in the DBZ community , and this quote makes all senses to the series: Herms The whole series up to and including the Freeza arc was all about the characters surpassing whatever had until then been the strongest. And, unsurprisingly, the entire series after the Freeza arc was like that too. Why should Freeza deserve to be treated any better that Tao Pai Pai, Piccolo, or Vegeta? I may vastly prefer Frieza as a character but I'm not gonna go against the evidence. Frieza has nothing to support him up other then "Mighty Pui Pui and Invincible Yakon weren't that strong", which nobody seems to be able to back up. It's a general law in DBZ that the villains who come later in the series are stronger then those before them. I don't see why that would be any different here.



Nanho	Jan 16 2013, 10:46 PM Post #146
Posts: 464 Group: Probation Member #8,818 Joined: January 6, 2013	Quote: I may vastly prefer Frieza as a character but I'm not gonna go against the evidence. Frieza has nothing to support him up other then "Mighty Pui Pui and Invincible Yakon weren't that strong", which nobody seems to be able to back up. There isnt evidence that supreme kai wasnt talking about 1st form frieiza nor is there evidence supreme kai is weaker than Pui Pui. This is just something AT will have to come out and confirm. I know it would be the obvious though. Quote: It's a general law in DBZ that the villains who come later in the series are stronger then those before them. I don't see why that would be any different here. It isnt a law its an assumption; Its only a law if the author says so himself.



Nanho	Jan 16 2013, 10:49 PM Post #147
Posts: 464 Group: Probation Member #8,818 Joined: January 6, 2013	http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/daizenshuu-2-akira-toriyama-super-interview/ also if the site is any bit creditable as people say it say it is then why argue? Question: From there, the enemy characters rapidly began to escalate. Answer: Having become the strongest on the Earth, Goku and co. had also beat the Saiyans who came from outside of Earth and then they went out into the universe. I came up with Freeza around the time of the Bubble2, and the land shark was the worst person of all. So I made him the #1 land shark in the universe. But merely escalating the enemies was a pain, so I brought out the Ginyu Special-Squad. My son really loved sentai3 stuff, and I always watched it with him. Well, I brought that in. It’s put out by Toei, same as the Dragon Ball Z anime. (laughs) Question: The next to appear where the Artificial Humans and Cell. Answer: Since they had become the strongest in even the universe, they next had to surpass time. So with that I did time-travel stuff, but it was really rough. Time paradox, is it? I quickly got bogged down. I basically only thought of what I was doing for that week. Even I didn’t know what was going to happen the next week. I’d draw the story like this, but I’d always discuss it with my editor to see what I should do for next week. (laughs) Edited by Nanho, Jan 16 2013, 10:50 PM.



+ Pyrus	Jan 16 2013, 11:17 PM Post #148
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Quote: The context is not being ignored.. Yes, it is. Nobody is realizing that Pui-Pui was under the assumption that he would be fighting humans, not Saiyans, let alone unnaturally strong Super Saiyans. Quote: How is base kid trunk> 18 that doesnt make any sense It's what's shown. Quote: But I'm glad you brought up something to help my argument: trunks has never been under any gravity. Struggles in base but moves around easily in ssj at 150!! It just shows you it has alot more to do with strengh/power than durability. So Base Kid Trunks < 90,000? Quote: Yes but if there are several similar instances to the one in question, then its only logical to discredit him in the other.. No, it isn't. That's basically discrediting what AT writes. Until a character is proven wrong in the instance in question, he is not wrong. Quote: Giving him a good fight? in the anime maybe. But in the manga, dabura was obviously toying with gohan.. It didn't look that way to me. He pulled out his magic tricks and spit. If that's him toying, I'd hate to see him being serious. Quote: Unless he says it then no. In my eyes he was being innovative. and not trying to contradict himself by making another villain from that universe as strong as frieza. Sorry to say it, but Freeza was nothing special past his own arc. I don't see how it would be a contradiction for people in the Boo arc to be stronger than him. Quote: Where in the manga is it stated he overheard their conversation? It's not outright stated that he heard it, but he was right there, and he displayed his mind reading ability in that same scene. Quote: What?? So after witnessing it at the tournament, saying its not as he expected. and having to be the one to immobilize him so that babidids minions can get the energy, hes just going to forget all that...that doesnt make any sense man. Welcome to the world of Dragon Ball. Take a seat. Quote: There isnt evidence that supreme kai wasnt talking about 1st form frieiza nor is there evidence supreme kai is weaker than Pui Pui. Wait, you honestly think AT was thinking of 1st Form Freeza that late in the story, especially for someone of Kaioshin's status? Edited by Pyrus, Jan 16 2013, 11:18 PM.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


Nanho	Jan 17 2013, 12:25 AM Post #149
Posts: 464 Group: Probation Member #8,818 Joined: January 6, 2013	Quote: Yes, it is. Nobody is realizing that Pui-Pui was under the assumption that he would be fighting humans, not Saiyans, let alone unnaturally strong Super Saiyans. Its still in context bur we're just putting into consideration everything else; Pui Pui in his own mind thought he was fighting an average human,dont forget humans have been shown in the anime to be able to sustain high gravity so dont make it sound as though humans cant. He was unconvinced(after vegeta toyed with hima little) that vegata was far above him in speed and strengh and thought 10xgravity would even it out or give him the advantage, he was unconvinced up untill vegeta dashed right infront of him giving him a little show of his real speed. Thats what happen there. Quote: It's what's shown. 18 was completely relaxed fighting them in base. And its a tournament mind you, she wouldnt go full force, knowing might risk the safety of the people. Thats not in her character. Quote: So Base Kid Trunks < 90,000? Its 150!xgravity compared to 100xgravity man. Quote: It didn't look that way to me. He pulled out his magic tricks and spit. If that's him toying, I'd hate to see him being serious Are you kidding me? Hes totally relaxed through out the fight compared to gohan who looked like he was fighting for his life. Theres even a panel with gohan panting while Daburas just floating there untroubled(its after gohan breaks the sword).. Quote: Sorry to say it, but Freeza was nothing special past his own arc. I don't see how it would be a contradiction for people in the Boo arc to be stronger than him. Ofcourse it would if that said character is of the z fighters universe. which Pui Pui and Yokan are. You noticed, AT made dabura strongest of his own universe, rather than make him from a different planet..and buu an artificial being and a wacked up story that he was entombed which is why no one heard of him. Quote: It's not outright stated that he heard it, but he was right there, and he displayed his mind reading ability in that same scene. Well I'm looking in the manga and it doesnt look like he was reading minds. after vegeta mentions he wants to fights goku, the supreme kai only says in his mind(about pairing up with piccolo): ''Its ok I think I know who he is'' Quote: Wait, you honestly think AT was thinking of 1st Form Freeza that late in the story, especially for someone of Kaioshin's status? ''Welcome to the world of Dragon Ball. Take a seat'' Edited by Nanho, Jan 17 2013, 12:31 AM.



EMIYA	Jan 17 2013, 12:34 AM Post #150
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	Kaioshin referring to First Form Freeza logic... Goku: “Yeah…Well, even if that wasn’t him at full force…I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but…7 years ago there was a guy called ‘Cell’…[Dabra]’s probably about as strong as him…” By using the logic that Kaioshin is referring to First Form Freeza, I can safely say that Goku was referring to Impefect Cell, because they fought Imperfect Cell seven years ago. Seriously who the hell would think Kaioshin was actually referring to first form Freeza?



1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)


Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Dragon Ball Versus · Next Topic »

Pages:
1
…
9
10
11