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- Logically, you are an atheist.
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| Logically, you are an atheist. | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 14 2009, 03:22 PM (109 Views) | |
| Kotetsu | Sep 14 2009, 03:22 PM Post #1 |
SOUPER SAYIN THREE
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So I was watching some vlogs of my favorite person. Penn Jillette. So i'm not going to take credit for this because it was his idea, yet i'd like us to expand on it. Penn Jillette says, "The question is, if your God told you to kill your children, would you do it? Because in my mind, if you said no you are an atheist. If you said yes, you are a dangerous person and stay away from me." So by this logic we are all atheists. Believing in a God also states that you have the ability to kill your children if commanded to. If you couldn't ever bring yourself to do so, you aren't a firm believer in your religion and you are surely a hypocrite. In this instance, individual interpretation is not a factor here. And I'll tell you why. First of all, it is written in the bible that
There are also many stories in modern time where women have killed their kids and claim that God told them to do it. If your answer is, "Well God would never tell anyone to kill their own children." My claim is that you are wrong, and by assuming what God would and wouldn't do is heresy. It is written in the bible and you can't simply throw out what you don't like, just because you don't think it's right. I don't think any of the bible is true, therefore I am atheist, and by this logic you are christian because you believe all of the bible is true, not the latter. If your answer is, "Genesis is metaphorical." Then so is the rest of the bible making it a false doctrine and subject to reason and logic making your religion false. If your answer is, "I would kill my children if I truly believed that God asked me to." You are quite clearly insane, and you should probably seek professional help. No rational person would ever kill their own child. That is my claim. |
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| Brian | Sep 14 2009, 06:18 PM Post #2 |
Homosexual Ogre
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I honestly believe I love you in the best way, my friend Kotetsu. You never cease, and I mean -never-, to amaze us all with your wondrous and logical atheist philosophies. Hell, it's a wonder in itself that we even have any theists here by now. Good work. I always enjoy the numerous atheist topics on here, especially since things are drying out lately. Oh, and as for the relevance of the topic, yeah. Obviously theists are morons and would simply reject such a philosophy anyway. It'd go on deaf ears. If they believe, there's always some sort of "mystery" that simply explains everything in their small minds. |
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| Temphis | Sep 14 2009, 10:30 PM Post #3 |
The Grand Master of The Masterverse
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it's not a "mystery", though it is hard for mainstream christians to believe. mainstream christians, or at least alot of the ones I've talked to, would deny the old Testament was true, as my missionary companion and I would teach from it. they would say things like "oh, the old testament is only a book of stories to help us build faith. you can only take what it says with a grain of salt." I myself had a hard time while teaching these people, to not attack their logic in an offensive way. I would normally try and resolve this foolish concern with a question "do you believe the bible is gods word?" and they would be all like "well, yeah I do!" almost defensivly, and I would have to ask "then why would god lie about the history of the jews?" and they would normally just either stop talking.....or ask us to leave. I have heard stories from other missionaries though, that some christians will even rip the pages out of their bible if you point it out to them with that page, that some of their beliefs are unsound. it's truley pathetic. well, as for my views concerning this, I don't think it's madness at all, if you truely undertood the significance of god asking directly to do something. sure it was a test of his faith, and he passed, and he wouldn't have been asked by god to do that unless he was really gonna try and go through with it. why would god ask someone to do something if he allready knew they wouldn't do it? he would be setting them up for faliure. the significance of this event, was that god wanted Abraham to exercise his faith, so that he could receive blessings for it. the fact of the mater is, Abraham didn't believe in god, he actually knew god, and talked to him, like they were pals, so god isn't going to ask anyone to do this just because he wants to prove them. also, this event was to help Abraham understand the atonement that Christ was going to make, and it was symbolic of it, so that Abraham could better understand God, and feel closer to him. his son, wasn't unwilling either. it's not like he fought to get away, or like he didn't realize what was going on, but he understood it was gods will at that moment, which is also perfectly symbolic of christs sacrifice, because he willingly went, "like a lamb to the slaughter". if this event had gone any differently, than there would be room for doubt, because if Issac didn't want to die and refused to go with him, Abraham could be considered sort of crazy, but that wasn't the case. don't forget, Abraham was the Prophet, and had all the answers to the purposes of life revealed to him, so he understood where Issac was going to go, and that everything would be fine, because God was asking him to do it, and god doesn't ask people to do things unless it's for their own benifit. well, thats my view concerning it, feel free to say whatever you want about it, it's pretty simple to me, and unless you sat down and studied out mormon doctrines of the after life, and the purpose of life, I wouldn't expect you to understand why I feel this way to begin with. don't worry though, I will never be asked by god to sacrafice somebody elses life, nor will anyone else, theres no reason for that to happen, since sacrifices ended with the law of moses when christ made the new law. that said, if god actually came to me and told me to kill somebody, after I proved to myself whether or not it was really god, if it was really god telling me face to face to do it, I totally would. I would fear the consequences of not doing what the creator of all things is telling me to do. I'm sure any sane person would, given that circumstance, so good thing it will never happen. essentially, anyone nowadays who says "god told me to sacrafice my child, I was just being obedient!" is either crazy, or possesed by something. Edited by Temphis, Sep 14 2009, 10:34 PM.
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| Kyonko | Sep 15 2009, 12:16 AM Post #4 |
=^-^=
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I honestly think this is the worst athiest post you've made, it's a good job you don't take credit for it, lol. It's rather quite flawed, in many ways and doesn't really need a long explination as to why. From what I understand of religion, god gave people free will, the choice to make their own decisions, based on this, if god told you to kill your children and you said no, you would be making a choice, thinking for yourself. If you believe god told you to do something, you can't be an atheist because you believe god asked you a question. Athiesm is the absense of a belief, but you already new that. |
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| -Zero- | Sep 16 2009, 05:23 AM Post #5 |
 
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Kotesu, this is a great topic, you're the man. I won't say much more because this seems to be a topic where religious people would have more to say |
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| Kotetsu | Sep 16 2009, 04:54 PM Post #6 |
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SOUPER SAYIN THREE
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He's saying that if you have the ability to oppose your religion in that way, you're not a true devote. And he's assuming that if you're not a true devote, you're a hypocrite, and are completely misled. And that since you are misled, you should consider yourself an atheist and drop your faith, unless you enjoy being called insane. |
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| Temphis | Sep 16 2009, 10:39 PM Post #7 |
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The Grand Master of The Masterverse
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yeah. Kotetsu is right, I think a lot of christians are crazy. they don't want to do anything or think about how any of their beliefs make sense, and so they just mindlessly follow whatever their pastor preaches to them. when those kinds are confronted with logical views that may help them better understand their own existance, they get angry and offended, even if you bring it up as your own personal view. it's like they say "how dare you think differently than me! you must think your ideas are better because you study, and research, but your wrong! my Pastor wouldn't lie to me! I pay him good, so I know he is telling me the truth! I'm doing fine, I don't need your logic, I'm completly fine with mine, and thats all I need!"......except not in so many words. I wouldn't say they should just call themselves athiests, that would be an insult to athiests, because that would make it sound like athiests don't have a reason to not believe in god, and that they don't use logic in their reasoning for their views. I also guess I wouldn't necesarily call those kinds of Christians crazy either....they are more, prideful and arrogant good for nothings, and are an example of the kind of people who have allowed our government to have more control over our lives, giving our country more room for evil and wealthy men to get what they want at our dispense. I guess the proper term for those kinds of people, are Arrogant Fools. |
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