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| Kid Buu vs Majin Buu; Like it says in the title ^ | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 11 2009, 02:57 PM (5,650 Views) | |
| Cooler | Sep 12 2009, 05:20 PM Post #16 |
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The point I'm making is that Goku's full power was needed to have a chance of beating Kid Buu, Majin Buu couldn't even scratch Goku therefore Kid Buu is clearly more powerful. You have yet to offer an explanation for why if Majin Buu is even equal to Kid Buu he was unable to inflict any damage to Goku? The difference between Goku's dead body and his alive isnt' enough to make up for the massive difference in damage he took from Majin and Kid Buu. We may not have a canonical answer exactly but what's been shown Kid Buu is definately superior IMO. I never said Majin Buu wouldn't put up a fight but the fact he couldn't injure Goku and Kid Buu is even more durable thanks to regeneration leads me to believe that Kid Buu would defeat Majin Buu. In the Manga Kid Buu easily batters Fat Buu, Fat Buu gets a couple of hits on Kid Buu but its virtually nothing. Goku and Vegeta both underestimated Kid Buu based on his size, after the battle started Vegeta realized that Kid Buu was actually incredibly powerful. Vegeta even remarked that he would be defeated by Kid Buu in an instant and both Goku and KId Buu's power were greater than he imagined and bare in mind he had felt all the forms of Ki at this point. I believe it was Goku who said that they'd both be beaten if they faced Super Buu and suggested the fusion dance but if you remember Goku also told Vegeta that they were equal during their battle...which is why I take that quote with a grain of salt. Super Buu was more scared of losing who he was not losing strength. I don't think the difference between Kid Buu is particularly great anyway what Kid Buu may lack in raw power he makes up for in insanity. Good point about Trunks and Goten not being transformed regardless as a feat of strength holding back that spirit bomb is a massive one I doubt Majin Buu could have done it, I don't even see Super Buu doing it. |
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| Sam | Sep 13 2009, 12:04 AM Post #17 |
It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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Psyam, your points are a mix of fillers and generalizations. I'd have to agree with Cooler. In the manga, Good Boo gets TWO HITS and ONE ENERGY BLAST that connects with Chibi Boo. A total of 3 attacks. Good Boo is fighting Chibi Boo for about 30 pages, but, is only actually SHOWN fighting him for about 10 or so, which is only slightly longer than Vegeta survived against Chibi Boo. Even then, Chibi Boo was playing with Good Boo more than he was with Vegeta. With Vegeta, he just roared, ripped lose and swiped him aside. With Good Boo, you could see him only fighting with his legs and not with his arms, easily fending Good Boo off with just his legs. In retrospect, Vegeta gets one significant blast and then pins Boo down with chi blasts, forcing him to regenerate behind Vegeta. Boo may have lasted longer but they both were pretty equal in the damage they did. You could argue that Chibi/Good Boo were fighting in the background while the other stuff was going on, but, I could also argue back that while Chibi/Good Boo were fighting, the other stuff was going on in the background and Toriyama just drew it up after he showed the Boo's fighting. You also have to realize something: SSj2 Vegeta lasted roughly NINE pages against Chibi Boo, yet, when he fought Majin Boo, he lasted a lot longer. Your argument is very predictable, he was MAJIN so he was stronger! Well, Majin form basically brings out the users' latent power and evilness. Vegeta was defiant to Bobbidi, and it'd be silly to assume that the power re-latented [how does that work?] SSj2 Vegeta vs Chibi Boo = lasted 9 pages before being rendered useless and nearly unable to move. Majin [SSj2] Vegeta vs Majin Boo = page 79 to 95. Minus 3 where it was just commentary, so, 13 pages. Even then, Vegeta wasn't immobile, and still could have gone on fighting even longer, but, blew himself up instead, turning Boo into pudding. Vegeta lasted a lot longer and wasn't damaged nearly as much by Majin Boo as he was by Chibi Boo. Within a shorter amount of time, Chibi Boo had done at least TWICE the damage to Vegeta as Majin Boo did. Vegeta even managed to hurt Majin Boo, which caused him to get angry. He couldn't hurt Chibi Boo AT ALL, as even when he blew Chibi Boo in half, Chibi Boo just smiled and regenerated. Cooler also has several good points he made. The fight in where Goku was taking damage from Majin Boo and Majin Boo wasn't taking any from Goku is a filler-based point. Let me pull out DBZ Volume 22 [I believe it is]. When Spopovich and Yamu harvested SSj2 Gohan's energy at the tournament, it filled the energy gauge it took to re-energize Boo to his maximum power up about 45%, judging by Bobbidi's comment "that's almost half what we need!" Later on, the Kaio-shin said this: "Are Super Saiyans really that strong? Come to think of it, it WAS hard to paralyze Son Gohan when he was a Super Saiyan... and he wasn't even at full power?" Basically, a base Super Saiyan 2 Gohan [not even powered up for battle, which is significant] filled Boo's energy chamber 45%. This is also a Super Saiyan 2 Gohan not prepped for battle AND one after several years of not training, the weakest SSj2 not even prepped for battle filled Boo's energy chamber up 45%. Meaning, by this notion, Majin Boo is probably 2.5 times as powerful as SSj2 Gohan at max-prepped power @ SSj2. I'm being generous, too, just to loll your argument. Also, when SSj3 Goku fought Majin Boo, he charged a Kamehameha and shot it at Goku, who simply deflected it. Goku's Kamehameha put a huge hole in Boo, and put a pained look on his face. A direct punch to the face by Boo did absolutely nothing to SSj3 DEAD Goku, yet, in seconds, Chibi Boo was putting damage on SSj3 Goku. You can argue Majin Boo wasn't at full power, but, neither was Chibi Boo, who was just playing around. Gohan [the weakest SSj2] at non-battle prepped power filled Boo's energy gauge up almost halfway. If Gohan was at max SSj2 power, he'd be significantly stronger, so, let's be safe and use that, and to be even safer, we'll say it would take 2.5x of this to hit Boo's max power, and not 2.1x or so like it would be Mathematically. A max power SSj2 Gohan multiplied by 2.5x = Majin Boo full power. Meaning full power Boo was more than double max SSj2 Gohan's power, which is why he defeated Gohan so quickly. Majin [SSj2] Vegeta is a lot stronger than Gohan, since, unlike Gohan, he kept up his training, so, he fared a lot better against Boo and even did some good damage, but, was also defeated. SSj3 Goku is obviously a lot more powerful than Majin Boo. When asked by Piccolo if he could have done it, Goku said he didn't think he could. When Piccolo asked why, he didn't say because he was too weak, he said because he didn't have enough time and wanted to leave it up to the future generation. Also take in account that EVERYONE that sensed Goku's chi [which was literally RIGHT next to Boo's] was utterly shocked. This showed they were either A) Shocked Goku had gotten so powerful or B) Shocked he was so much more powerful than Boo. Probably both. And the fun part is, Boo was probably near max strength when he fought Vegeta, since he powered up big time and sent out a huge angry-kiai that nearly wiped out the area, so, they obviously knew Boo's previous battle strength. Judging by all this evidence, albeit none of it is solid and I had to elaborate on it, it does roughly place Majin Boo down somewhere. Majin Boo was probably in between SSj2/SSj3 power, closer to SSj3. When he lost the evil in him, he got closer to SSj2. I know by LOGIC it sounds like he would lose so much more power than he did, losing all the evilness, but, that's not really the reality of the situation. Majin Boo could never use all of Chibi Boo's power + his own Kai power at once, he was similar to Gohan, he would snap briefly and use some of it, yes, but, he could never manage all of it, maybe 60% at most on top of his Kai power. This is why he could never be stronger than SSj3 Goku, and this is why Chibi Boo, pure wrath and pure unsustained evil, would defeat the conflicted Majin Boo. Not saying it wouldn't be a good fight, but, Chibi Boo would not have an extremely hard time with it, and eventually he'd wear Majin Boo down. Edited by Sam, Sep 13 2009, 12:26 AM.
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
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| RyDub | Sep 13 2009, 03:04 AM Post #18 |
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Kid Buu would win, personally I think buu was similar to a sayian in that every time he was beaten he gained strength. Either that or every time he absorbed some one he kept a portion of their power even after they escaped. |
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| Temphis | Sep 13 2009, 03:52 AM Post #19 |
Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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Kid Buu had more power, and was able to do more than Majin Buu, but his insanity prevented him from fighting for any reason other then self amusment. Kid Buu could use Instant Transmition without even absorbing Goku, and where the fetch did he learn it? he saw goku do it and just copied him like it was nothing. he practically didn't mind getting blown up, cause he doesn't really make many attempts to protect himself from chi attacks, and he seems to think pain is amusing, and often laughs maniacly after regenerating from having his lower torso blown up. he also, rather than trying to dodge the genki dama, the only attack strong enough to kill him, he instead charges it, and attempts to push it back, as if it was a more of a challenge of his power, rather than an attack. essentially, I suppose if he had felt threatened at any time, he would of annialated everything and everyone, but he essentially allowed himself to be destroyed because he was so care free and had no real goals. these are just my thoughts of course, but they make sense. |
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| Sam | Sep 13 2009, 07:03 AM Post #20 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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Actually, Chibi Boo WAS frightened by the Genki-Dama, and tried to stop it with a large blast, but, his attack did nothing. He was maniacally happy when he was succeeding though. |
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
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| BattleMetal | Sep 13 2009, 01:24 PM Post #21 |
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Ok so this is a fight between Majin FAT Buu and KID Buu? Not between Mr.Buu (good one that protects Mr.Satan/ Hercule) and Kid? FAT Buu could tap into greater reserves of power before he became SUPER Buu. This was the well of power that Gohan and the others commented on being able to sense inside Fat. Kid is clearly more powerful than Mr.Buu when they fought after he sneezed him out. Mr.Buu didnt tap into any reserves of power beyond his own abilities because all of that power had gone when he was separated from Kid. reason Mr.Buu can take more damage than Vegeta is simply that he is not made from flesh and blood and bones. He has no organs just a body made of pink, regenerative blubbery rubber. im undecided if Kid could beat Fat as he seemed capable of tapping into large reserves of power. Not sure if the reserve was as strong as Super Buu, i always thought of it as him tapping into Kids original power. if this was the case (tap Kids power) then the pair would be more equal in the fight. If it was Super Buus power (so cause of the Kais) then he would have a power advantage but he could only do this in a single attack, nothing to suggest he could maintain this power. Kid would come at him with everything (fighting at the same strength consistentlyl) whereas Fat would only be able to summon that strength in a moment of rage. Kid wouldnt be fazed if he lost 99% of his body in the attack, he doesnt take long to regenerate an would be right in the fight. Only the Buus can knock each others power levels down. So here Kid is stronger but Fat can summon (potentially) larger reserves of power for a single attack before returning to normal strength. Mmm? i think Kid would win this in the end, big attacks wont slow him down like others fighters would be and he is stronger and much more aggressive. |
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8040430/1/ Link to my DBZ fan-fic tale: Saiyans, Frieza, the Ginyu Force and other alien races and beings all chucked into the soup-pot for all out action and glory! http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8129945/1/#new Link to a DBZ inspired story/ battle scenario that i did when i was 16 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8071554/1/#new Link to the Marvel/DC tale of the super-powered hereos and villians of both verses. Biggest heavy-hitters square off in an almight-free-for-all brawl! | |
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| Nothing | Sep 13 2009, 11:30 PM Post #22 |
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I'll have to agree with NeciFiX's post here...Kid Buu is much stronger than Fat Buu. I mean, Goku himself stated when he was fighting Kid Buu on Supreme Kai planet (at least in the anime, I don't know about the manga) that everything on Kid Buu has doubled (his speed,strength,power) since the last time he fought him.(Last time was when Buu was in his Fat form and Goku still had halo over his head). So if Goku himself stated that Kid Buu is stronger than Fat Buu,why even bother and argue? Kid Buu wins this one. |
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Sep 14 2009, 01:17 PM Post #23 |
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Kid Buu IS stronger than Fat Buu in any normal state. With his evil unleashed, he's just as powerful as Grey/Evil Buu though. You recall what Evil Buu did to Mr. Buu, right? Much worse of a beating than even Kid Buu gave him. That is the inner evil, and that's how powerful it can be. Kid Buu > Mr./Majin Buu Kid Buu < (Evil anger/power unleashed) Majin Buu Edited by Dark, Sep 14 2009, 01:19 PM.
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| Sam | Sep 14 2009, 10:05 PM Post #24 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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Ugh, too much filler to argue against. |
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
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| * Psyam | Sep 18 2009, 01:49 AM Post #25 |
 
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Well, after reading some of the Buu saga I'm even more convinced Fat Buu would win. The fight between Fat Buu and Goku isn't like in the animé at all. They're practically even, and it's pretty damn obvious Fat Buu is just messing around. Fat Buu was never serious in any fight, the only fighters he tried in were against Evil Buu and Kid Buu, but by then he was pure good and had obviously lost most of his power. There's no way you can say SSJ3 Goku > Fat Buu from their fight. Buu was just playing. Goku did later say he could of beat Fat Buu, but to be honest, he was also very confident he could beat Kid Buu, but got beat and then said he overestimated himself. Goku never knew the full extent of Fat Buu's power, either. It was never shown. Not to mention he had earlier admitted to Piccolo he didn't know if he could beat Fat Buu or not. I would of thought the statement just after he'd fought Fat Buu would be more trustworthy. And of course as I previously mentioned, there's also Goku being able to manage SSJ3 better against Fat Buu due to being dead, making him stronger in that fight. I think there's evidence to support both Kid Buu and Fat Buu, but for me, Good Buu being able to put up any sort of fight against Kid Buu probably means he was at least moderately close to him in power level. Look at Zarbon Vs. Vegeta, a few thousand power level difference made a huge impact. Good Buu was able to get some good hits on Kid Buu, so he can't of been that far behind in power. Vegeta managed to pin Kid Buu down, but only by going all out with energy blasts. Good Buu physically hurt Kid Buu. Granted, Kid Buu was playing with him somewhat, but Fat Buu's head-butt still very much effected Kid Buu. Add the stronger half to Fat Buu and I think he'd have this in the bag...if he actually fought seriously for once. Edited by Psyam, Sep 18 2009, 01:52 AM.
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| Sam | Sep 18 2009, 04:54 AM Post #26 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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Hm. I know your manga source that you read the Boo saga, and it's very poorly translated. Goku wasn't trying at all either. Why would you assume that? I'm also dead set Chibi Boo would win. How did Good Boo put a good fight against Chibi Boo? He didn't! He barely did better than Vegeta! Good Boo got THREE hits on Chibi Boo. Three. That's all in his entire fight scene in the manga. Vegeta got two. They both got ko'd very quickly. Boo lasted longer because he's pure flubber. Good Boo did not physically hurt Chibi Boo, there was no indication of that. Good Buu just threw him into the ground, and Chibi Boo got back up instantly. You're assuming Fat Boo has Kai Power + Chibi Boo, when such is not the case. He's been watered down. He may be able to draw from Chibi Boo's power, but, I'd say only 55%, or roughly half. I doubt the Kai's could make up the remaining half or so. Chibi Boo would be stronger. You also assume Chibi Boo was trying his hardest. He was fooling around as well. He fell asleep fighting Goku. The only time he was serious was versus the Genki-Dama, where he repelled an entire spirit bomb from billions on Earth + All the Z Fighters + Goku's energy and deflected it back. Edited by Sam, Sep 18 2009, 04:57 AM.
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| * Psyam | Sep 18 2009, 03:16 PM Post #27 |
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I didn't say Goku was trying, but Cooler had been saying it like Fat Buu was trying his hardest and Goku just owned him, which wasn't the case. Good Buu even being able to move Kid Buu with a headbutt shows he's not that far behind in power. It wouldn't of effected him at all otherwise, Kid Buu would of just stood there, or possibly just been knocked back a few steps. Examples: Saiyan Saga, Kaioken Goku Vs. Vegeta. Goku was only two thousand behind in power, but he couldn't do much to Vegeta even when he surprised him. That was an 11% power difference if I have their power levels right (16,000 and 18,000). Zarbon couldn't do ANYTHING to Vegeta in their second fight and he was only a little behind. Same with Dodoria Vs. Vegeta. Dodoria was helpless. My point is, just being able to knock Kid Buu down means the ratio between them was probably no bigger then 60/40, that's big enough to let Kid Buu play with Fat Buu by holding back. Any bigger then that, like 70/30, and Good Buu wouldn't of even of been able to move Kid Buu. A little difference goes a long way, and your adding a big amount of power to Good Buu by him being his combined form again. Sure, he probably could never go all the way to Super Buu's limit, but he'd still be a good lot stronger. If we take 60/40 as acceptable (any bigger difference would be unreasonable) then let's take half of Kid Buu's power, and add it on to Good Buu to make Fat Buu's power. 40 + 30 = 70. That of course makes it 70-60 to Fat Buu. That makes Fat Buu stronger then Kid Buu by enough to let him win the match if he put full effort in. I think Fat Buu could probably use somewhat more then half of Kid Buu's power, so that makes it even more in Fat Buu's favour. Also, without a big speed advantage, I think Kid Buu would be a sucker for Fat Buu's candy ray. Knowing Kid Buu he'd probably stand there and take it... I said he was playing with Good Buu, but holding back the Spirit Bomb is not a big feat. Goku was COMPLETELY out of power, the ball may as well of just been floating in the air and up for grabs. Once he had his strength back, he was able to overpower Kid Buu with the Spirit Bomb easily. |
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| Sam | Sep 18 2009, 09:48 PM Post #28 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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It just comes down to your and my opinions then. I suppose even with manga evidence I can't sway you or convince you. Tenshinhan was able to hold off 2nd Form Cell and even damage him a little with the Ki Ko Ho, just to counter some of your examples. Your examples were taken from the Saiyan Saga, primarily. Freeza 100% was pretty far behind Goku but managed to get some good hits in. |
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
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| * Psyam | Sep 18 2009, 10:16 PM Post #29 |
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Ki Ko Ho is a pretty unique attack, though. No other attack compares to it in raw power, and Tien couldn't move after it, plus he probably shortened his life by quite a bit using it. In the same way, Krillins Disc could cut through 2nd form Frieza, even though we know Krillin wouldn't stand a chance against him. Individual techniques probably aren't the best way to measure power difference. Tien wouldn't be able to flinch even Imperfect Cell without the Ki Ko Ho, let alone Semi-Perfect Cell. If we look at Frieza's power level of 120,000,000 at maximum power, and Goku's power level of 150,000,000, while that may seem like a big difference at first glance, it is actually only 55/45 in Goku's favour. That was enough to allow him to win without putting in much effort, but small enough for Frieza to be able to inflict some pain with his hits. As I said, Good Buu Vs Kid Buu being any more then 60/40 is unreasonable, otherwise Good Buu wouldn't of been able to do ANYTHING to Kid Buu. Obviously, even a 10% difference is enough to easily make one fighter superior to the other. I'm pretty sure that Fat Buu having at least half of Kid Buu's power would easily make up that difference. But yeah, we might have to agree to disagree. I feel I've provided some good evidence in my last posts, and of course you and Cooler have too. I'm sticking to my side, though. Edited by Psyam, Sep 18 2009, 10:18 PM.
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| Super Goku | Sep 20 2009, 03:19 AM Post #30 |
Vizard Jinchurikii
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when good boo was fighting kid boo, he did land some hits on him, but not many. vegeta stated that only one boo could hurt another boo, due to that material theyre made out of i guess. Otherwise boo just pops back in to place like bubble gum. so vegeta, who shouldnt be able to even hurt kid boo as well as good boo, actually landed some hits on him, blowing him up with chi blasts. so vegeta was at a disadvantage... regeneration wouldnt be a problem in this fight, i guess is what im saying. the two boos should be judged on how strong they are just throwin that in there, though its not exactly what you guys were debating about. but yeah, look at piccolo + goku vs. raditz. thats like a combined power of 650 vs. about 1220. and raditz owned them. as time goes on, its not a 600 power difference, between vegeta and zarbon it was a few thousand, but vegeta still landed some hits, i suppose goku and freeza, ex. thats 120(mil) and 150(mil). thats a big difference. the ratios just dilute as everyones strengths get stronger and bigger. |
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