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| Kid Buu vs Majin Buu; Like it says in the title ^ | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 11 2009, 02:57 PM (5,646 Views) | |
| Cooler | Sep 11 2009, 02:57 PM Post #1 |
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I've read a topic like this a few times on the internet and a lot of people seem to believe that the original Majin Buu we see e.g. the fat one is more powerful than Kid Buu so I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in and see what everyone thought. - In the manga before he fights Kid Buu states that; 1) He could have beaten Fat buu, 2) He has to go all out if he's going to beat Kid Buu, This alone tells me that Kid Buu is at least on par with Fat Buu with the potential to be stronger. - When Goku and Majin Vegeta fought they were almost equals, now even with a more durable body Goku was badly bruised from the fighting. Therfore we know that a being of equal power can cause substantial damage to a 'dead' body (obvious but bare with me). This leads me to the Majin Buu vs Goku fight, in this battle Goku was not scratched at all despite numerous hits even when not going all out. This means that Fat Buu had to have been weaker than Goku by in my opinion a fair margin as he did no noticeable damage. - By contrast Kid Buu left Goku badly beaten after the fight which therefore puts him above Majin Buu. Ok those are my thoughts, discuss :). |
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| * Psyam | Sep 11 2009, 05:22 PM Post #2 |
 
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Goku said he might of been able to beat the Fat Majin Buu if he had really tried, but the same is true for Kid Buu. Vegeta and Goku both stated that Goku's full power as a SSJ3 would be enough to completely destroy Kid Buu, but unfortunately due to his living body he couldn't sustain the transformation after he let the fight drag on to give Vegeta a chance. Also, Goku would have been stronger against the Fat Buu then against Kid Buu, as he was still dead at the time and could handle SSJ3 better. Now, my opinion on Fat Buu: Fat Buu basically has the same power as the pure Good Buu untill he gets angry. This is due to the goodness of the Grand Supreme Kai holding his evil power back. When Fat Buu gets angry, the Z Fighters say it's like Buu is reaching into an deeper well of energy. This is likely him reaching into Kid Buu's power. A good example of this is when he says "Big power" and powers up against Majin Vegeta. Vegeta orginally dominated Fat Buu, but later gets completely battered. Fat Buu has the potential power of Super Buu (which is greater then Kid Buu's), as he is basically Kid Buu's power + the Kai's power, but he can't use it all unless he gets angry. This is why SSJ3 Goku was able to dominate Fat Buu. Fat Buu was not mad at the time, so he would of just been as strong as Good Buu, which is probably 30-40% of his full potential, as the evil side of him was obviously stronger. However, if the Fat Buu had got mad and unleashed his full power, he probably would of decked Goku, as his full potential should be the same as Super Buu's. I mean, they're both made of the same beings, Super Buu just has full control over his power, Fat Buu doesn't. Anyway, Kid Buu would probably beat up Fat Buu for awhile, then eventually Fat Buu would rage and beat the tar out of Kid Buu, possibly finishing him with a Kamehameha or whatever. Kid Buu might absorb Fat Buu, Fat Buu might turn Kid Buu to candy, who knows what would happen. But in terms of power, I think Kid Buu is stronger normally, but Fat Buu is stronger when he gets mad. Although, it's interesting to note that Goku only thought he probably or might of been able to beat the Fat Majin Buu, while he and Vegeta were both certain that Goku could beat Kid Buu at his full power as a Super Saiyan 3. Edited by Psyam, Sep 11 2009, 05:27 PM.
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| Cooler | Sep 11 2009, 05:57 PM Post #3 |
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Goku before Kid Buu fight Goku directly states he could have beaten Fat Buu and also states he needs to go all out to beat Kid Buu. That in itself implies Kid Buu > Fat Buu, I don't think Goku having a dead body is going to be that much of a boost. It meant he could handle energy consumption better yes but remember he was unscathed from the battle with Fat Buu which means he had to have had significant power advantage judging from his fight with Vegeta. I say this as Goku's dead body was quite badly beaten from his fight with Vegeta someone who was his equal, from this we can infer that Majin Buu was weaker than Goku by in my opinion a fair bit. As for Fat Buu's power: I thought it was stated that Buu was continually getting stronger as the saga went on? I don't think he only had bursts of power when he got angry, Goku said when he first met Buu that a super saiyan 2 wouldn't be a challenge for him so I don't think Majin Buu (when not angry) = Fat Buu/Mr Buu. Its my opinion that Majin Buu would always been limited in the amount of his power he could obtain due to his good side I see no reason to think that the full extent of his anger could match Super Buu or be superior to Kid Buu. What we have to go on is the fact that Goku stated he could have beaten Fat Buu (by this time he would have known full well the extent of Buu's powers having witnessed all his forms) and he also stated it would require everything he had to beat Kid Buu. Edited by Psyam, Sep 12 2009, 04:00 AM.
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| * Psyam | Sep 11 2009, 06:26 PM Post #4 |
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http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8162/ssj3gokubuu.jpg If Goku had really gone all out at the start when he had full energy, or had been dead and able to control SSJ3's power better, he could of destroyed Kid Buu. Also, while he says before fighting Kid Buu he could of destroyed the Fat Buu, just after his fight with Fat Buu (where it would of been fresher in his memory) he wasn't sure at all, saying that Buu was "mighty strong". It's possible he undervalued Fat Buu later on after he'd seen Buu's super forms. The pure Good Buu actually did better against Kid Buu then SSJ2 Vegeta did, so even if he was at just his pure good power, a SSJ2 wouldn't be a challenge for him anyway. The only reason Goku struggled with Kid Buu was because he wasn't used to SSJ3 in a living body. If he had full control over his SSJ3 power, he would of obliterated Kid Buu. Edited by Psyam, Sep 12 2009, 03:55 AM.
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| Temphis | Sep 12 2009, 02:51 AM Post #5 |
Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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I always thought that the reason why the Kai were all like "oh no, it's his original form!" is cause kid buu (original form) is more powerful, because he doesn't have an good chi in him to supress his power, because all his power comes from Evil Chi. it is also for this reason, and the fact that he could always regenerate, even after Majin Vegeta's final explosion or SSJ3 Gotenks incinerating each piece of him, that only a Spirit Bomb could defeat him. Spirit bomb was explained in the Sayian Saga to only be able to hurt people using their own Evil Chi, as a weapon against them. this is how it would kill Majin Buu I guess. makes sense. didn't make sense how he could push it back with his bare hands without dyeing, but still. in fact, I think the only reason super Buu was at all powerful, is because he absorbed all their "power" not just good and bad chi, so he wasn't using negative chi, but instead other peoples super energy. this means Fat Buu was in a supressed form, and that Kid buu was in his ultimate form. by all means, kid Buu should be more powerful, yet, for some reason, this still remains a subject of debate, because of contidictory statements within the show. this is why I hated the Buu Saga in a lot of ways. |
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| * Psyam | Sep 12 2009, 03:49 AM Post #6 |
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Well Temphis, I think it makes sense. This is what I've come up with: Fat Buu - Base power is Good Buu's plus a little of Kid Buu's, anger brings out more of Kid Buu's power. Good Buu - Only the power of the two Kai's absorbed, but even this is greater then SSJ2 Vegeta (not Majin). The burly Kai put up a good fight against Kid Buu, and the Lord of the Kai's was probably no weakling either. 30-40% of Super Buu's power. Evil Buu - Equal to Kid Buu, or possibly a little stronger as he might have took some of the Kai's power with him when they split . Either way is fine for me. Super Buu - Full control of both Good Buu's and Kid Buu's power, nothing holds him back, this is why he's stronger. He is just Kid Buu + Kai's power, and with the evil side in control he has full reign over his power. Kid Buu- Original Buu, probably around 60-70% of Super Buu's power due to lack of Kai's. I think Majin Buu Vs. Kid Buu would be a decent fight. Kid Buu would have the advantage at first, but Majin Buu would get mad and unleash some huge attack on him. Kid Buu would probably survive, but Fat Buu might get madder and madder as the fight goes on. Who knows who'd win though. Also, Temphis, Buu can be defeated if he is outclassed enough. Vegeta's blast was not strong enough, and Gotenks only had a little power advantage over Super Buu. Goku should of been capable of destroying Kid Buu if he could have reached maximum power, also Vegito pounded Super Buu so much that his regeneration started to degenerate. But Vegito could have ended it any time he felt like it, anyway, if he had gone all out with a Kamehameha or what have you. |
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| Sam | Sep 12 2009, 04:18 AM Post #7 |
It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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What? Fat Boo would lose this. He never yelled "BIG POWER" and blew up at Vegeta. He did yell "HURT YOU!!!!!!" and send a massive kiai out that exploded the nearby area, but, I do not know where this all is coming from, and this kiai didn't even kill the already immobilized Lord of Lords who was right next to the impact site, near Vegeta. I don't know. This is just speculation. I have a feeling the souls inside of Boo made him weaker rather than stronger. The South Kai at the time made Boo hulkier. This form is stronger than Super Boo. Then he turned into Fat Boo from absorbing the Great Lord of Lords. When Semi-Ultimate Boo was about to attack Goku, he reverted back due to the fusion running out and he turned into Piccolo Boo. Goku's quote was, "I bet Piccolo is in there, slowing you down!" Piccolo, in fact, made Boo weaker, because Piccolo was much weaker than Boo. The reason Boo absorbed him was for his intelligence, something Boo was severely lacking in. Chibi Boo was obviously MUCH stronger than the South Kai/Great Lord of Lords, as they quickly went down, according to the Lord of Lords. They could have "felled Freeza in one blow". I'd place them, in fact, not much higher than Piccolo. The Lord of Lords was shocked by Super Saiyan Gohan's power, who was probably weaker than Piccolo [due to years of inactivity and only being plain Super Saiyan], and he had witnessed the other Kai's powers personally! They were, at most, all as powerful as SSj Goku in the Boo Saga. Boo obviously did not know absorbing them would make them weaker, and probably just did it out of insanity and because he could, or for physical reasons. He maybe thought that the South Kai's enormous size would benefit him. In my opinion, the Kai's tamed Boo and at the same time made him a bit weaker. Chibi Boo would have this. P.S. The two "fights" against Boo where they put up a "decent struggle" is not canon, and thus never happened. It was added for effect to add substance. Filler. The two Kai's, at most, were SSj2 Gohan, maybe Vegeta, put together. The reason Boo put up a better fight than Vegeta was because he has a lot more endurance, stamina and also can regenerate, he takes less damage and naturally has his own chi. I also think Chibi Boo is superior in many ways. Wonder why they didn't just bring Gohan or SSj3 Gotenks or both over to fight Boo when they were already stronger than Chibi Boo by a large margin? There was obviously a reason Vegeta picked the Genki Dama over a huge amount of force that would be almost as overpowering as Super Vegito vs Ultimate Boo. Also, that manga panel is HORRIBLY mistranslated. Here's the real conversation: "Don't mind me. Finish him off! Build up your chi with Super Saiyan 3, and you should be able to obliterate him!" - Vegeta "Well... I've been tryin' to, but... I haven't had the chance!" - Goku "I'd have to rev up for a whole minute to get enough power!" - Goku "A minute?!" - Vegeta "The potara coulda done it... maybe I tried to act too cool... but I thought this would be better!" - Goku "...You're not... holding back for me...?" - Vegeta "He keeps draggin' this out! The little punk's havin' fun!" - Goku Edited by Sam, Sep 12 2009, 04:44 AM.
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
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| * Psyam | Sep 12 2009, 04:40 AM Post #8 |
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Anime changed the line, I expect. Never saw that, but I haven't read the manga in full obviously. Maybe Goku thought Piccolo was doing something inside Buu? In my opinion, nobody made Buu weaker except the Fat Supreme Kai. We know that SSJ3 Gotenks and Super Buu were about equal, right? When Gotenks defuses, Goku says "There will be no need for us to fuse any more. Majin Buu has lost over a third of his power.". If Piccolo, Goten and Trunks (who were even weaker then Piccolo) actually weakened Buu, then he would of lost OVER HALF of his power when Gotenks defused (over half from Gotenks who was a little stronger then Super Buu, plus he would of been made even weaker if they actually held him back) If he only lost a third, not even a half, then obviously Goten/Trunks/Piccolo actually strengthened him somewhat, as if they didn't, losing Gotenks would of lost him at the very least half his power, a little more then half in fact. If that "third of his power" quote is not contradicted in the manga, that pretty much damn proves that even weaker fighters strengthen him imo. Fat Buu was an exception because the Kai drastically changed his personality and suppressed his power (note: didn't make him weaker, just suppressed it). Everyone else makes him stronger. Good Buu definitely beats SSJ2 Vegeta. There's no excuses for it. I've seen that part of the manga and Buu gets some damn good hits on Kid Buu before he gets worn down, Vegeta gets completely shredded right from the get-go. Goku actually thought that he wanted Gotenks and Gohan to fight, so he probably thought it was a good idea...but Vegeta asked him how many times he'd saved the Earth, and said let them save themselves for once. As for the mistranslation, point is still the same. If he had been dead like against the Fat Buu, he probably would of destroyed Kid Buu. Edited by Psyam, Sep 12 2009, 04:46 AM.
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| Sam | Sep 12 2009, 04:53 AM Post #9 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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"There will be no need for us to fuse any more. Majin Buu has lost over a third of his power.". Filler. The quote from Goku clearly validates my point. He probably did lose half his power, then. In fact, Goku throws Gohan the potara, who is unable to find it. He is still trying to find it to fuse, when he Boo turns into Piccolo Boo. Why would Goku think Piccolo is slowing him down personally? That's an absurd notion. Completely absurd. If that were true, Piccolo would not be in Boo's possession. Also, Boo barely lands a finger on Chibi Boo. I believe he hits him once, then Chibi Boo regenerates. He gets a few hits but he is completely overwhelmed, just a bit slower than Vegeta. Yes, I know that, but, considering the situation, it seems odd to me they wouldn't just do it the easy way, especially when the Genki Dama's failure almost became imminent. |
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
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| * Psyam | Sep 12 2009, 05:12 AM Post #10 |
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Not really, just a change of words. Besides, the huge majority of people here go by the animé, and I don't see anything in the manga to contradict the statement. Do you know what the line was in the Japanese manga by any chance? I don't see why they would of changed "a lot" to "a third" for no reason. You mean Piccolo in there slowing him down? I don't know. It doesn't make sense for the burly Kai to increase Buu's power and Piccolo/The Boys to decrease it. They didn't change Buu's personality or water down his evilness, he just took their power. So is Piccolo weakening Buu, when it's also been established that the burly Kai increased Buu's strength. Do you think there's some kind of requirement in power? People either make him weaker or stronger, it doesn't work both ways. The only fighter that made him weaker was the purest and jolliest of the Kai's because it drastically changed Buu's personality. Goten/Trunks/Piccolo/Burly Kai do not change his personality, they're just hooked up to Buu and their power is added to his. Kid Buu head butts Good Buu, Good Buu head butts Kid Buu back, Good Buu blasts away half of Kid Buu's body...Vegeta on the other hand just got owned and complained about how strong Kid Buu's attacks were. Good Buu putting up that much of a fight in his pure state leads me to believe he'd at least put up a very good fight in his combined form. Kid Buu could still win due to being a more efficient fighter, but I don't think it'd be a push over at all. Oh, and I still think Majin/Fat Buu has a greater potential power then Kid Buu. His power fluctuates with his emotions, that's all. The way I see it, Goku fought Fat Buu as a full power SSJ3, the same power that would of destroyed Kid Buu. He was obviously not straining to hold the transformation like against Kid Buu, so clearly the Otherworld/Being dead rule still applied to him while he visited Earth. And I'm going bed now, I'll catch up with this thread tomorrow  Edited by Psyam, Sep 12 2009, 05:24 AM.
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| Emperor Cold | Sep 12 2009, 11:51 AM Post #11 |
Makaioshin
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Maybe the reason they didn't go get Gohan and Gotenks was because Goku didn't have enough energy left for a round trip. There is quite a distance between Earth and the planet of the Kais. Or maybe he thought as soon as he left, Buu would destroy the planet. |
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| Cooler | Sep 12 2009, 12:37 PM Post #12 |
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If you put the two quotes we've both quoted together it tells us that at full power Goku giving it everything he had could destroy Kid Buu. By contrast Fat Buu couldn't even hurt SSJ3 Goku which shows that he was actually weaker than Goku, Goku needing his full power to take down Kid Buu implies Kid Buu is as strong as SSJ3 Goku. Therefore, Kid Buu <=> SSJ3 Goku > Majin Buu I personally think SSJ2 Vegeta would find a way to defeat Fat Buu but thats not relevent to the topic. Kid Buu even held back a spirit bomb with not just the power of Earth but the power of Ultimate Gohan! He must be extremely powerful to do that and nothing Majin Buu did even hints that he would be capable of holding back such an attack. |
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| * Psyam | Sep 12 2009, 03:07 PM Post #13 |
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It's more like: SSJ3 Goku (Dead) > Majin Buu >= Kid Buu > Goku (Alive, unable to sustain transformation) Goku when fighting Majin Buu was at a much stronger level as he was able to control SSJ3 properly due to still being dead. This is pretty much the best point anyone can make in Kid Buu's favour, but the only explanation was that Gohan didn't give all his energy. Gohan, Trunks, Piccolo and Goten were obviously not worn out after they gave their energy, and if they really wanted to give as much as possible then the boys would of fused into Gotenks and then given their energy. Ultimate Gohan alone would annihilate Kid Buu, so there's no other explanation for it. It's already been generally agreed that Super Buu is stronger then Kid Buu, so there's no way Kid Buu could be THAT strong. If he was able to repel the Z Fighter's, the Earths AND Gohan's full energy, he'd be over Buutenks's level probably, and Buutenks stated he was the mightiest Majin Buu ever. No way is Kid Buu that strong. Goku and Vegeta knew they didn't have a shot against Super Buu (with no one absorbed), Goku said it himself inside Buu's body after they pulled all their friends out. They were quite confident against Kid Buu, however, and happy to face him. Kid Buu can't be above Super Buu, and as Gohan is above Super Buu, he can't of given his full energy, maybe he only gave his base energy. |
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| Cooler | Sep 12 2009, 03:29 PM Post #14 |
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I really think there's no evidence whatsoever that Majin Buu is stronger. Goku didn't even realize the drain SSJ3 was having on his alive body until after he tried to reach full power, that suggests he was fighting as he should up till then. There's no grounds to say Goku when dead is much stronger than when he's alive, the fact is Goku said he needed everything he had to have a chance against Kid Buu no such statement was made about Majin Buu. Kid Buu needing all of Goku's power means that Kid Buu is likely to be at least equal to Goku, as Majin Buu wasn't able to even scratch SSJ3 Goku we know that SSJ3 was stronger than Majin Buu. Therefore Kid Buu > Majin Buu
Well it doesn't make sense for Gohan to only give a small fraction of his energy to the spirit bomb does it? Vegeta was asking for more energy when the spirit bomb was being repelled surely if Gohan could have lent so much more power he would have? Goku had all along been hiding his true power from Vegeta to spare his feelings I tend to take that statement with a grain of salt myself. |
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| * Psyam | Sep 12 2009, 04:14 PM Post #15 |
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It might of took his full power, but if he'd been dead Goku would of still destroyed Kid Buu. Goku's full power would of been too much for Buu to handle. Goku while dead could of beat both Majin Buu and Kid Buu, so to be honest saying either is stronger is speculation on both our sides anyway. Good Buu (who's a weakling compared to Fat Buu) getting hits on Kid Buu and surviving as long as he did makes me believe Majin Buu, who was a heck of a lot stronger, could at least put up a good fight against Kid Buu. Goku and Vegeta were both obviously scared of Super Buu, they were confident and happy to face Kid Buu because his power had dropped, Goku wouldn't even leave Buu's body because he was certain they'd be killed, he wouldn't let himself be defeated just to avoid hurting Vegeta's feelings...if he could of beat Super Buu he wouldn't of had a problem with leaving his body right then. Super Buu was obviously terrified himself at degenerating into Kid Buu, as well. Kid Buu is inferior to Super Buu, both in intelligence and power. No, it doesn't, but neither does it make sense for Gohan to have given his full energy, as that alone would of been enough to destroy Kid Buu. I don't know why he didn't, he just didn't. Perhaps the Spirit Bomb can't take energy from a transformed person, if he has to power up into his Ultimate power. This is supported by the fact that Goten and Trunks didn't turn Super Saiyan to give their energy, surely that would of been more effective right? |
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