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| Frieza VS Cooler | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 23 2009, 03:50 PM (2,295 Views) | |
| BUU | Jul 25 2009, 04:28 AM Post #16 |
 
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Once again, I would like to state that in the true story (the manga), even 100% full power Frieza is never a match for SS Goku. In the anime, Frieza actually puts up a fight in the anime ONLY. They probably just did this for dramatic effect. And even IF Cooler is weaker, he'd just catch Frieza off guard (like Goku) and generate a Supernova. And since it took Goku (who is stronger than Frieza) all his power to reflect the Supernova when he was caught off guard, Frieza wouldn't stand a chance. I don't believe that Cooler is totally weaker; against base Goku in his base form, he didn't get really damaged ( remember, a few punches won't end the fight). Also since 50% full power Frieza was equal to Kaio-ken x20 and Cooler easily dominated Kaioken with little to no effort, we can assume that Cooler is about 80%-90% stronger than Kaio-ken x20. So since Frieza 50% full power was equal to kaio-ken x20, all we have to do is double the numbers. -If Cooler is 80% stronger than Kaio-ken: So, Frieza at 50% full power would have a 20% advantage. Multiply this by 2 and the stats would mean Cooler would have a 60% advantage and Frieza at full power would have a 40% advantage. -If Cooler is 90% stronger than Kaio-ken: So, Frieza at 50% full power would have a 10% advantage. Multiply this by 2 and the stats would mean Cooler would have a 80% advantage and Frieza at Full power would have a 20% advantage. Edited by BUU, Jul 25 2009, 04:30 AM.
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| * Psyam | Jul 25 2009, 04:02 PM Post #17 |
 
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But I bet he still manages to hurt Goku a few times, right? Cooler couldn't do anything even with a direct hit. Goku was forced to use all his power to stop it before it hit the planet. Frieza would just move out of the way. He doesn't care about any planet and he doesn't need air. Cooler was relying on Goku trying to save the planet from his attack. Frieza would just move. Again, Goku had a clear advantage. Really. Cooler would of lost if he kept that up. If Goku had used even Kaiokenx2 he would have ripped Cooler's 4th form apart. There isn't any doubt that Cooler's 4th form power is insignificant to Frieza's. Goku said in the manga that his 20x Kamehameha blast didn't even phase Frieza. Besides, Goku put everything he had into the Kamehameha on Frieza, but he still had energy after the one he used on Cooler, so it was probably weaker. As for your numbers, Cooler might of only been 25% stronger then the attack, or an even lower %. A little difference goes a long way in DBZ, as shown by the Saiyan and Namek sagas. You only need to be 10-15% stronger then someone to outclass them in every way. |
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| Enigmus | Jul 25 2009, 04:05 PM Post #18 |
Wut???
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Good point, Though i actually think if he were to fight goku in his 4th form without goku transforing i think he would of stood a chance of winning. Wheres as Freeza inflicted a hell of a lot more damage, Considering he was like 100% like they say. |
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| Meta Cooler | Jul 25 2009, 04:47 PM Post #19 |
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Do you guys think that 100% final form is basically like a 5th form for Frieza? In that case Cooler and Frieza might be matched up more closely. |
 An optimist is someone who falls off the Empire State Building, and after 50 floors says, 'So far so good!' If you can't see the bright side of life, polish the dull side. If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it. | |
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| BUU | Jul 25 2009, 06:27 PM Post #20 |
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In the manga, Frieza in 100% full power doesn't even put up a fight. Sure, he managed to get a FEW blows, but he realized that his effort was futile because Goku kept on shrugging off Frieza's blows. In my opinion, Goku underestimated Frieza because he knew that Namek was already doomed and that Frieza wouldn't be able to match his power. Why do you think he was so confident that he could beat Frieza in 5 minutes? As for Cooler, Goku realized that he was more of a threat because he could EASILY take down Kaio-ken x20 while even 50% full power Frieza struggled. Plus, one must keep in mind that Cooler was willing to fight SS Goku. Another thing to keep in mind is that when Frieza returned to earth, Vegeta said that he was no where near his power level on Namek. Also Frieza claims that he powered up. Yet, his attacks were no match for SS Trunks. And soon, Trunks dealt with Frieza easily. And afterwards, when Trunks meets Goku, it is revealed that Goku is the superior Super Saiyan. Goku was even willing to take both King Cold and Frieza himself. For the Supernova thing, even if Frieza dodged the attack, the planet would explode meaning that Frieza would be nearly destroyed (and this time King Cold won't help him). And you might say that Cooler would be blown to smitherines as well, but if Cooler knew that, he obviously wouldn't have launched the Supernova so confidently. This means that Cooler had a plan. Cooler may be a little ignorant, but he seems to value his life a lot. In my opinion, Cooler was slightly weaker in his base form. This time, I'll explain myself. At first, Cooler let Goku hit him, wanting to see the power of a "Super Saiyan." Then as I recall, they fought in the air clearly evenly matched and then they fought underwater where Cooler shot a ki blast that Goku seemed to have some trouble with. Then, I think Goku dragonthrew Cooler out of the water where Cooler landed safely on a waterfall. This seems pretty evenly matched to me. I don't really think that Cooler was putting all his effort. He barely even faught Goku in his base form. If Goku struggled with one ki blast, what if Cooler shot two or three ki blasts? Cooler was just anxious to try his new form to defeat this super saiyan with ease to prove that Frieza was a weakling. He obviously knew that he would out match Goku easily if he transformed. Also, Cooler managed to take down Goku with one eye laser attack, even if Goku was trying to protect Gohan. If Goku actually went Kaio-ken against Cooler's base form, I'm pretty sure that if Goku went kaio-ken x2, Cooler would last, but more, Cooler would get his butt kicked.  About the x20 kamehameha, it's one thing to withstand a kamehameha, but it's another to swim through one. When you withstand one, your only taking the end of the beam, which is still a lot of energy, but if you swim through it your going through all the energy, and yet Cooler was unfazed. The attack can't really gat weaker, it's just a normal kamehameha multiplied by 20. Goku probably still had energy because although there is an error in this movie, we must assume that this movie takes place on the same timeline as the one in which Goku trains for a year. One year is a long time. Look how much the Z fighters improved in one year in the Saiyan Saga and how much they improved in ten days in the Cell Saga. Besides, if this movie doesn't take place on this time line, how can Goku do instant transmittion in The Return of Cooler? Anyway, my point is that since Goku trained for a year, he must have become more powerful. Even if he only got a little more powerful, he still must have gained some energy. |
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| * Psyam | Jul 25 2009, 08:40 PM Post #21 |
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Ok, Cooler is stronger. 100% certain, know why? I just saw the Japanese version of when Cooler transforms. In the Japanese (aka the original) voiced movie, when Cooler transforms, Goku says: "Incredible...his Ki is even greater then Frieza's!". They changed that line in the English version to "Woah, he's huge!", which is why none of us knew about it, I assume. So yeah, Cooler is stronger transformed then Frieza's full power. Undeniable proof. I guess that kind of kills the topic. Lol. Edited by Psyam, Jul 25 2009, 08:42 PM.
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| Enigmus | Jul 25 2009, 08:42 PM Post #22 |
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Wut???
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Would Meta Cooler count as a transformation? |
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Jul 25 2009, 09:23 PM Post #23 |
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No, and if we were to compare Meta Cooler this would be no contest at all. Meta Cooler was leagues above Frieza in any way shape or form. I think the advanced form alone is the reason that Cooler wins here. If they fought on equal levels, I think Frieza would have the advantage. I always thought it would be totally awesome to see a "100%" 4th form or final form Cooler though. Like an earlier comparison of the two I guess. Edited by Dark, Jul 25 2009, 09:24 PM.
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| Meta Cooler | Jul 25 2009, 09:57 PM Post #24 |
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Yo! Props for the proof man! Good Work! 
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An optimist is someone who falls off the Empire State Building, and after 50 floors says, 'So far so good!' If you can't see the bright side of life, polish the dull side. If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it. | |
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| BUU | Jul 26 2009, 08:53 PM Post #25 |
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So, I guess it's over. Cooler wins. |
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| Meta Cooler | Jul 26 2009, 10:50 PM Post #26 |
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I told yall Cooler would win |
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An optimist is someone who falls off the Empire State Building, and after 50 floors says, 'So far so good!' If you can't see the bright side of life, polish the dull side. If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it. | |
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| Nothing | Jul 27 2009, 06:54 PM Post #27 |
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Even in English DBZ Movie 5 it is ridiculously obvious that Cooler is stronger. -Cooler says: "My brother was a pest, he was always trying to beat me and he defiantly had the edge(refering to Frieza's final form), but then it happened, I transformed !!!(which means he trasnformed,so his brother doesn't have the edge anymore(Cooler meant to say:" Frieza is not the strongest one anymore, I am the strongest")) -Latter Cooler said something like: "I can gather energy a lot faster then my brother", this also means that Cooler is superior to Frieza. -And finally Cooler did seem to push Goku ssj into the ground with his Death Ball attack, and Goku needed to use ssj Kamehameha to deflect it,while when Freiza was at 100% and when he fired the same attack(or at least similar) at Goku ssj, he deflected it only with his energy charged fist. Cooler wins this one  P.S - I am glad that Cooler wins...he is a lot better than Frieza. Frieza was like a homosexual, especially with that girlish voice of his. Edited by Nothing, Jul 27 2009, 07:01 PM.
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| Sam | Jul 27 2009, 07:04 PM Post #28 |
It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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Well said, Psyam. You proved to me Freeza would win this. Your post has some filler references, such as Freeza saying "he's never gone higher than this power" before, but, if we were to go by canon references [manga] then it wouldn't make sense, since according to Freeza he's never transformed past 2nd form to fight anybody. So, this is the only real time filler is appropriate. Nice post though. |
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