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- 100% freiza vs cooler final form
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| 100% freiza vs cooler final form | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 11 2009, 04:36 PM (312 Views) | |
| UltimateGohan | Jun 11 2009, 04:36 PM Post #1 |
 
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who would win this ?? |
 Gohan your the man !!! | |
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| Rebel X | Jun 11 2009, 05:58 PM Post #2 |
 
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I believe Cooler wins this. He said Frieza had a slight advantage until he found his new form. Cooler is just as smart and deceiving as Frieza too. The other main difference other than the power levels would be the fact that Cooler generates energy way faster than Frieza. It takes frieza quite sometime to gather enough energy to destroy a planet but only takes Cooler a few moments if that. |
I am the light of darkness  Thanks to + Light for the sig and avatar | |
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| BattleMetal | Jun 11 2009, 10:17 PM Post #3 |
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Meh Frieza 100% why not.  Powerlevels in the movie are pretty bad (as bad as GT). i mean Cooler is supposed to be stronger than Frieza but he doesnt last long against the Super Saiyan, hardly putting up a fight. Too one sided. Problem with Cooler is that he is just a movie villian, just a cheap easy creation off of the back of a popular franchise. And they dont have 50+ episodes to show Goku struggling to beat him. Cooler doesnt even do well against Goku even in his base, until he changes into 5th form then happily beats up Goku until he turns Super Saiyan and wipes the floor with him. No contest. Frieza puts up a hell of a good fight against the Super Saiyan and lands some pretty meaty blows, its quite an equal bout that see-saws back and forth until the end. Coolers fight is pretty weak in comparison. He looks cool though, i guess. Hahaha i remember reading a fan fic that was true to form using the same forms as used in this Versus thread and it is a close fight but in the end Frieza is triumphant killing his brother with a big Super Nova attack. Pretty fair account of what would happen i think. 
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| Rebel X | Jun 12 2009, 12:05 AM Post #4 |
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Yes I agree movies are a bad reference for anything which is why it's even more unstable to find a proper solution when you have versus like this one. On the other hand in the movie they display key facts that make the difference. First, the powerlevels I'm referring to are not like something off a scouter or anything. This was Friezas Brother saying he was more powerful than him. If you look at the fight and the last like 20 minutes of the movie/real fight you'll see that when Cooler was in his 3rd form Goku had no real trouble, which is expected. When Cooler went to his final form he thrashes him just like Frieza did against Goku. So so far they're even. Goku is on earth so you have to think DBZ time line, again I understand time lines are inaccurate when it comes to movies but it's pretty obvious that this movie happens when Frieza finally dies against Trunks, and Goku trains 3 years for the coming Androids. So this movie happened within those 3 years. At this point in time Goku could finally go Super Saiyan at will and he was no longer just barely controlling it. He had more experience with his powers. Unlike when he was on Namek when it was his first time. Goku was way more powerful after landing on Earth then when he first faced Frieza as a Super Saiyan. Notice when Frieza and Goku fought Frieza had a hard time with Gokus kamehameha wave when he was using kaioken technique. I mean he could hardly hold it, in fact I believe Frieza eventually went around the blast when he knew he couldn't do any better. Cooler on the other had with the same exact situation went right through the kamehameha as if he was speed flying through air and hit Goku with ease. As for that Super Nova Attack. Both brothers possess the technique. The difference is that Cooler makes his faster because he gathers ki at an accelerated rate compared to his brother. Notice when Trunks takes on Friezas Super Nova he easily pushes it above ground while walking and then just holds it in his hand like a play thing. Although when Goku goes up against it he has to give it all he's got plus a blast to send it the other way. I'm saying he needed all he has because later on when Cooler dies he's still on the ground exhausted and he's no longer in Super Saiyan form. One last thing is the potential that Cooler may or may not have gotten the chance to produce was the question was he at 1 oe 100% of his power. Frieza was at 1 when he transformed, then grew into 100%. It's not stated anywhere if Cooler was or was not at his 100%. Cooler wins regardless of the last thing |
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I am the light of darkness Thanks to + Light for the sig and avatar | |
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| Psyam | Jun 12 2009, 12:22 AM Post #5 |
 
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Frieza looks stronger at first glance, as he put up a much better fight against SSJ Goku, but I'm afraid these are the hard facts: Goku was in better shape when he fought Cooler. He was on Earth which meant he would of had some extra training done since the battle with Frieza. In addition, though he was beaten up, Goku wasn't as damaged as when he first turned SSJ. Goku could barely stand after using the Spirit Bomb against Frieza, which means he had virtually no Ki left when he transformed. Goku still had some energy when he transformed against Cooler. Goku would of been significantly stronger against Cooler then against Frieza, leading to Frieza putting up a better fight because he fought a weaker Goku. Cooler also directly stated he was stronger then Frieza. He later backed this up by saying "I can gather energy much faster then my brother!", which he proved when he gathered energy for a Supernova in mere seconds. Cooler flew through Goku's 20x Kaioken Kamehameha, which caused Frieza a lot of pain when he was at 50% of his maximum. While one could argue Frieza was only using half his power at the time, the point stands he could only barely block the blast, while Cooler wasn't even effected by it at all. There is an error in this movie (like most of them...) in that Goku should of been able to turn Super Saiyan at will, but couldn't. By the time he gets back to Earth he can control it. Regardless, Goku can still be assumed to be stronger and more in control of his Super Saiyan powers when he fought Cooler, as well as in better condition. That's the reason Cooler appeared so weak. Keeping all this in mind, and seeing how Cooler stated he was stronger then Frieza in his final form, I think Cooler would be the victor here. |
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| Brian | Jun 12 2009, 05:59 AM Post #6 |
Homosexual Ogre
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Cooler wins. He pushed Goku to his limits, while Goku had plenty of time to merely taunt and insult Frieza. Cooler gets the edge because of his later stage, surpassing the abilities of Frieza. I wonder what a "100%" 4th form Cooler going up against Frieza would be like, or if that would be possible. |
 "They wanna take your women." - Too inappropriate for DBZF | |
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| BattleMetal | Jun 12 2009, 09:17 AM Post #7 |
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Meh what you all said makes sense. Ive not watched the entire movie so its interesting to read these other facts that occur during the fight that i hadnt seen. I dont really want watch the Cooler movie as all the other movies are all really awful. You all keep saying that Cooler is in his 3rd form and transforms into his fourth form. I thought that when we see Cooler he is in his 4th form then he ascends into a 5th form and thats how he surpasses Frieza?? I felt like this was him at his best as like i said before they dont have 50+ episodes to show him powering up, so it appears that he fought as hard as he could in this form. Meh could be, might not be. The movie was trying to revisit the idea of Goku relearning the ability to become Super Saiyan, to find that drive again. Really daft when we know he can harness the power at will. This movie would have made more sense if it occured during his time on the planet Yardrat after he fought Frieza and before he returns to Earth, when he had that year out. These creators behind the movies need a slap. Yeah it does make more sense that Goku is more powerful and is better rested since he is on Earth. Still Cooler is supposed to be stronger than Frieza but doesnt really do very much, shame the fight couldnt have been more of a struggle to acknowledge the strength increase of Cooler in his new form. Cooler does win this based on whats been said in terms of power levels. I would prefer to see Frieza win this clash though as he is a more solid fighter. |
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| SSJVegito | Jun 12 2009, 02:42 PM Post #8 |
Ally to good. Nightmare to you.
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Frieza wasn't that harmed from the Kaioken. He was merely surprised that the Saiyan could generate that much energy. But his 4th form at 50% power was still clearly enough to outmatch the Saiyan. Cooler didn't reach this level of power until he reached his 5th transformation. Now it's hard to say how much power Cooler's transformation gave him but unless it was twice that of his 4th form or more he would still be below Frieza at 100%. Frieza took a TON of damage from Goku before reaching 100% power so he couldn't hold it for very long. Initially however, Frieza held the upper hand against the Super Saiyan. Cooler was completely decimated by Goku's Super Saiyan power in his final form. Yes Goku was more powerful than he was on Namek but I don't think it was a significant amount. Looking at it as an alternate timeline, Goku still couldn't transform at will, meaning he hadn't quite gotten the grasp of the SSJ form and it was only fueled by his emotions. This would indicate that Goku hadn't had much practice with it or hadn't trained at all in that form yet so I don't think the power increase was that significant. Cooler stated that Frieza had the upper hand until his 5th transformation. So taking that into account Cooler should win hands down. But really I'm biased towards Frieza. Haha. Really I'm just confusing myself. Really it's all depending on the multiplier Cooler got from transforming, he would either win hands down or it would be really really close. |
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| UltimateGohan | Jun 12 2009, 07:12 PM Post #9 |
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but look at the fights, 100% frieza vs ssj goku did much better than final form cooler did against ssj goku... cooler got his butt wipped in a few minuites |
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Gohan your the man !!! | |
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| Psyam | Jun 12 2009, 08:14 PM Post #10 |
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Only because it was a film. They can't drag a film out like they can the anime with many episodes. Besides, technically, Frieza was beat in about 7 minutes after he launched a Ki blast at the planet. They just extended it for many episodes. Cooler was going mental and was going to blow up the planet. Goku had to stop him, he didn't give Cooler a chance to power up like he did with Frieza. Goku wanted Frieza to know he was utterly beaten at his peak, while Cooler was a threat that had to be taken care of immediately. Well, it still messed his hand up pretty bad, and he seemed to really strain to block it. Cooler went through it like it wasn't even there. |
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| Brian | Jun 12 2009, 09:31 PM Post #11 |
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Homosexual Ogre
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By this point it should be evident, but I'd like to throw in another point. Goku should have gotten a little stronger since his fight with Frieza. I'm not sure if the planet exploding after a fierce battle counts as a near-death experience, but I'd say it's pretty obvious that Goku got at least a little bit stronger before returning to earth. The fact is, Cooler clearly states that he surpassed Frieza. This alone should be the end of this discussion. |
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"They wanna take your women." - Too inappropriate for DBZF | |
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| Rebel X | Jun 12 2009, 09:48 PM Post #12 |
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End of conversation  but that doesn't stop others from voicing their opinions which is why this and other discussions that don't get out of hand will always stay open |
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I am the light of darkness Thanks to + Light for the sig and avatar | |
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| Psyam | Jun 12 2009, 10:07 PM Post #13 |
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True, but it's best to bring up other proofs as well. After all, I'm sure if you asked Frieza he would of said he was stronger then his brother I think it's pretty evident now that Cooler would win, regardless. |
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| Brian | Jun 12 2009, 10:38 PM Post #14 |
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Homosexual Ogre
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Cooler seems a lot less bigheaded than Frieza though. He seems more serious, too. Even Vegeta knew that he was weaker than Goku, and Vegeta is the prince of all arrogance. |
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"They wanna take your women." - Too inappropriate for DBZF | |
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| Psyam | Jun 13 2009, 01:26 AM Post #15 |
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After he transformed Cooler didn't hold back against Goku, and he took care of Piccolo with one death beam. He plays around a lot less then Frieza does. He also wanted to see Goku die with his own eyes, rather then blow up the planet. Cooler is definitely a much more efficient killer, so I agree to some degree. However, he is quite big headed. I decided to rewatch the movie as I haven't seen it in ages, and some quotes struck me as pretty arrogant. Now I'm typing this up while it's fresh in my mind. "Hahahaha, sleeping on the job Super Saiyan? I can can gather energy a lot faster then my brother! You shouldn't of taken your eyes off me! Now die with this planet!" "What are you talking about? The weak die and the strong survive!" "Hahahaha, YES! IT IS I WHO DECIDES WHO LIVES AND WHO DIES, ALL LIVING THINGS ARE MERE PLAY THINGS TO ME, NO ONE CAN COMPREHEND MY POWER AND CUNNING!" (capitals because he was practically shouting.) Perhaps he was just getting a little carried away, but I think he's still pretty arrogant. Another thing I noticed when rewatching was that Goku base (not even using Kaioken!) was beating Cooler's 4th form pretty bad. Cooler decided to transform very quickly, if he was using only a fraction of his power I doubt he would have. He also said that Goku would be "the first to witness this form". If Cooler's 4th form was being beaten by base Goku, who can't of been THAT much stronger then when he was on Namek, then how could Cooler be sure his 5th form could beat Frieza, who's power at 50% was vastly superior to Goku at Kaioken levels? He said himself he'd never shown his new form to anyone before. It's possible he was just being arrogant in his claim he was stronger then Frieza. Earlier I thought Cooler would have it down, but after seeing the film again I really doubt it. Goku without Kaioken was around equal to Frieza when he was using 2% (or was it 1%?) of his power, I believe. If that's true, what does it imply to Goku beating Cooler's 4th form without using Kaioken? The same Goku who Frieza could match with only 2% of his power? Cooler would have to become at least 50 (if base Goku was equal to 2% Frieza) times more powerful when he transformed to beat 100% Frieza in a match. This could be why Goku beat Cooler so badly. Perhaps Cooler became stronger then Kaioken Goku when he transformed, but no where near Frieza's full power, which is why he lost so bad to SSJ Goku? A direct punch from Cooler to Super Saiyan Goku didn't even make him flinch, whereas Frieza could actually hurt him. What do you guys think? Am I rambling or does any of this make sense? Or is it just another not thought out movie flaw? |
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