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Who is the Most Powerful person in the Dragonball Z Universe?; *No Movies
Topic Started: Jun 6 2009, 10:28 PM (157,429 Views)
J-Smack Aug 1 2011, 02:55 PM Post #181
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Kamikaze Pyro
Jul 31 2011, 06:34 AM
A more realistic list would have the farmer at the top...always.
Yeah, because it's like golf, right? I mean, really, would rather shoot a 5 or over 9,000?
darkwarrior
 
has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe Trunks just bought his sword somewhere or something? There's nothing really special about it.

Y2J
 
Well it did manage to slice Frieza into a shishkebab so it must've been packing more power than your average blade. Hell even Zelda's sword couldn't pull off that ****.



ObsessiveFanGirl
 
I don't believe in power levels after the Frieza Saga. :D
Now, there's an idea.
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Doggo Champion 2k17 Aug 1 2011, 05:01 PM Post #182
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Cocoman_
Jul 30 2011, 03:24 PM
I've had it with these motha*****in noobs on this motha*****in forum.

Manga;

1. Super Vegetto
2. Buuhan
3. Buutenks
4. Ultimate Gohan
5. Buff Buu
6. Buucollo
7. SSJ3 Gotenks
8. Super Buu
9. SSJ Gotenks
10.SSJ3 Goku.

edit: Honourable mention to South Kaioshin and base Vegetto. they are around 9/4.

Anime;

1. Super Vegetto
2. Buuhan
3. Vegetto
4. Buutenks
5. SSJ3 Goku
6. Kid Buu
7. SSJ2 Vegeta
8. MSSJ Goku
9. Ultimate Gohan
10. SSJ3 Gotenks.
I know, right? I hate noobs. just kidding, guys, but seriously!

However, there are a few things about your list that I would change.

Anime;

1. Super Vegetto
2. Buuhan
3. Vegetto
4. Buutenks
5. ]SSJ3 Goku
6. Kid Buu Ultimate Gohan
7. SSJ2 Vegeta Kid Buu
8. MSSJ Goku Buff Buu
9. Ultimate Gohan SSJ3 Gotenks
10. SSJ3 Gotenks. Majin Vegeta

Here's my explanations: (and first of all, I don't decide by power levels, I decide by previous victories and evidence in the show. I hate all of that power level crap for multiple reasons, but mostly because I think it's reaaaally noobish. lol. Plus, there's no substantial evidence of power levels in the show or manga anyways, so they make absolutely no sense at all.)

1) Ultimate Gohan is obviously superior to the characters below him because he easily defeated Buff Buu, and Kid Buu was arguably about the same strength as Buff Buu, maybe a little bit stronger. Ultimate Gohan would have defeated him.

2) There is no way that MSSJ Goku would even be on this list. It's just... not possible. Sorry.

3) SSJ3 Gotenks is stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta. I don't really know how anyone could argue this. Majin Vegeta couldn't even defeat Fat Buu, and Majin Vegeta is stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta. 'nuff said.

4) Ultimate Gohan is as strong as SSJ3 Goku. How could he possibly be weaker than MSSJ Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta? It makes no sense.

Other than that, your list is sound.
Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Aug 1 2011, 05:01 PM.
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Spirit Aug 1 2011, 05:04 PM Post #183
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So Lonely
ObsessiveFanGirl
Aug 1 2011, 05:01 PM
Cocoman_
Jul 30 2011, 03:24 PM
I've had it with these motha*****in noobs on this motha*****in forum.

Manga;

1. Super Vegetto
2. Buuhan
3. Buutenks
4. Ultimate Gohan
5. Buff Buu
6. Buucollo
7. SSJ3 Gotenks
8. Super Buu
9. SSJ Gotenks
10.SSJ3 Goku.

edit: Honourable mention to South Kaioshin and base Vegetto. they are around 9/4.

Anime;

1. Super Vegetto
2. Buuhan
3. Vegetto
4. Buutenks
5. SSJ3 Goku
6. Kid Buu
7. SSJ2 Vegeta
8. MSSJ Goku
9. Ultimate Gohan
10. SSJ3 Gotenks.
I know, right? I hate noobs. just kidding, guys, but seriously!

However, there are a few things about your list that I would change.

Anime;

1. Super Vegetto
2. Buuhan
3. Vegetto
4. Buutenks
5. ]SSJ3 Goku
6. Kid Buu Ultimate Gohan
7. SSJ2 Vegeta Kid Buu
8. MSSJ Goku Buff Buu
9. Ultimate Gohan SSJ3 Gotenks
10. SSJ3 Gotenks. Majin Vegeta

Here's my explanations: (and first of all, I don't decide by power levels, I decide by previous victories and evidence in the show. I hate all of that power level crap for multiple reasons, but mostly because I think it's reaaaally noobish. lol. Plus, there's no substantial evidence of power levels in the show or manga anyways, so they make absolutely no sense at all.)

1) Ultimate Gohan is obviously superior to the characters below him because he easily defeated Buff Buu, and Kid Buu was arguably about the same strength as Buff Buu, maybe a little bit stronger. Ultimate Gohan would have defeated him.

2) There is no way that MSSJ Goku would even be on this list. It's just... not possible. Sorry.

3) SSJ3 Gotenks is stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta. I don't really know how anyone could argue this. Majin Vegeta couldn't even defeat Fat Buu, and Majin Vegeta is stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta. 'nuff said.

4) Ultimate Gohan is as strong as SSJ3 Goku. How could he possibly be weaker than MSSJ Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta? It makes no sense.

Other than that, your list is sound.
That's a really good list OFG! But I don't see how SSJ3 Goku could be stronger than UGohan during the fights with Majin Buu. Unless you mean Goku from EOZ ;)
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Doggo Champion 2k17 Aug 1 2011, 05:06 PM Post #184
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Pedy
Aug 1 2011, 05:04 PM
ObsessiveFanGirl
Aug 1 2011, 05:01 PM
Cocoman_
Jul 30 2011, 03:24 PM
I've had it with these motha*****in noobs on this motha*****in forum.

Manga;

1. Super Vegetto
2. Buuhan
3. Buutenks
4. Ultimate Gohan
5. Buff Buu
6. Buucollo
7. SSJ3 Gotenks
8. Super Buu
9. SSJ Gotenks
10.SSJ3 Goku.

edit: Honourable mention to South Kaioshin and base Vegetto. they are around 9/4.

Anime;

1. Super Vegetto
2. Buuhan
3. Vegetto
4. Buutenks
5. SSJ3 Goku
6. Kid Buu
7. SSJ2 Vegeta
8. MSSJ Goku
9. Ultimate Gohan
10. SSJ3 Gotenks.
I know, right? I hate noobs. just kidding, guys, but seriously!

However, there are a few things about your list that I would change.

Anime;

1. Super Vegetto
2. Buuhan
3. Vegetto
4. Buutenks
5. ]SSJ3 Goku
6. Kid Buu Ultimate Gohan
7. SSJ2 Vegeta Kid Buu
8. MSSJ Goku Buff Buu
9. Ultimate Gohan SSJ3 Gotenks
10. SSJ3 Gotenks. Majin Vegeta

Here's my explanations: (and first of all, I don't decide by power levels, I decide by previous victories and evidence in the show. I hate all of that power level crap for multiple reasons, but mostly because I think it's reaaaally noobish. lol. Plus, there's no substantial evidence of power levels in the show or manga anyways, so they make absolutely no sense at all.)

1) Ultimate Gohan is obviously superior to the characters below him because he easily defeated Buff Buu, and Kid Buu was arguably about the same strength as Buff Buu, maybe a little bit stronger. Ultimate Gohan would have defeated him.

2) There is no way that MSSJ Goku would even be on this list. It's just... not possible. Sorry.

3) SSJ3 Gotenks is stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta. I don't really know how anyone could argue this. Majin Vegeta couldn't even defeat Fat Buu, and Majin Vegeta is stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta. 'nuff said.

4) Ultimate Gohan is as strong as SSJ3 Goku. How could he possibly be weaker than MSSJ Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta? It makes no sense.

Other than that, your list is sound.
That's a really good list OFG! But I don't see how SSJ3 Goku could be stronger than UGohan during the fights with Majin Buu. Unless you mean Goku from EOZ ;)
I put SSJ3 Goku higher than Ultimate Gohan because there's really no evidence in the show that Ultimate Gohan is stronger, and since SSJ3 Goku defeated Kid Buu... it gives me a reason to believe that he may have been stronger.

Either way, it's a close one between those two. There's really not enough evidence for either of them.
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TrunksinSwimmingTrunks Aug 1 2011, 07:22 PM Post #185
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Formerly known as daman

 Evidence is Goku fully expects Gotenks to be stronger than him, and he doesn't even know Gotenks will achieve ssj3. Then Gohan comes along and is stronger than Super Buu+ssj3 Gotenks. Buu+Gotenks is surely stronger than ssj3 Goku, since Super Buu is stated to be stronger than Fat Buu, and Goku was about even with Fat Buu, so with Gotenks added on Buu must at least twice as strong as Goku(Gotenks was about equal to Buu). Gohan totally dominated Gotenks-Buu, so it makes sense for Gohan to be at least 2.5x stronger than Goku.
Also, when Gohen gets powered up, Goku comments on Gohan's strength and is impressed, which to me suggests that Gohan had surpassed him(since it's not like he would just be surprised by Gohan being as strong as him/just below his strength, since he's already witnessed Gohan's power go past his before, so for him to be surprised Gohan's power must have been way above his, even more so than in the Cell Games).
kamizake pyro is a girl? olsiw

Make the old spam section viewable plz



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lunar2 Aug 1 2011, 07:58 PM Post #186
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 by the manga, ssj3 gotenks far outpowers ssj3 goku, and is about even with super buu. both are weaker than ultimate gohan, by events shown and by goten and trunks' own statements.

the simplified powerscale in the manga for the buu arc is this:

vegito > buuhan > buutenks > gohan > ssj3 gotenks ~ super buu > ssj3 goku ~ kid buu > fat buu > evil buu > good buu > ssj2 goku = ssj2 majin vegeta

however, the anime is very different, because of the filler added in. in the anime, kid buu is stated by kibitokai and by the narrator to be the most powerful buu.

ultimate gohan is shown to be between mssj goku and ssj2 goku. mssj goku was fighting fairly well against the gohan figment inside buu, and he states that this gohan is as powerful as the real gohan.

along with other fillers, the anime powerscale ends up like this:

ssj3 goku > kid buu > buuhan > fat buu > evil buu > good buu > ssj2 goku = ssj2 majin vegeta > ultimate gohan > ssj3 gotenks ~ super buu

and so super buu ends up the weakest form of buu, and ssj3 goku is somewhere on par with at least base vegito.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Doggo Champion 2k17 Aug 1 2011, 11:19 PM Post #187
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lunar2
Aug 1 2011, 07:58 PM
by the manga, ssj3 gotenks far outpowers ssj3 goku, and is about even with super buu. both are weaker than ultimate gohan, by events shown and by goten and trunks' own statements.

the simplified powerscale in the manga for the buu arc is this:

vegito > buuhan > buutenks > gohan > ssj3 gotenks ~ super buu > ssj3 goku ~ kid buu > fat buu > evil buu > good buu > ssj2 goku = ssj2 majin vegeta

however, the anime is very different, because of the filler added in. in the anime, kid buu is stated by kibitokai and by the narrator to be the most powerful buu.

ultimate gohan is shown to be between mssj goku and ssj2 goku. mssj goku was fighting fairly well against the gohan figment inside buu, and he states that this gohan is as powerful as the real gohan.

along with other fillers, the anime powerscale ends up like this:

ssj3 goku > kid buu > buuhan > fat buu > evil buu > good buu > ssj2 goku = ssj2 majin vegeta > ultimate gohan > ssj3 gotenks ~ super buu

and so super buu ends up the weakest form of buu, and ssj3 goku is somewhere on par with at least base vegito.
Even after thinking about that post for ages, I still don't entirely understand the logic of it. I'm going to have to disagree.

Goku may have stated that the Gohan he was fighting inside of Buu was equal in power to the real Gohan, but that's referring to regular Gohan, not Ultimate Gohan. Obviously Goku wouldn't know how strong Ultimate Gohan really was since he'd never sparred/fought with him before (or even seen him fight), and since he had only barely sensed Ultimate Gohan's true power while on the Kai planet. He knew how strong regular Gohan was because he saw him fight and power up in the tournament prior to the Buu events, but he really had no idea how powerful Ultimate Gohan was.

I also don't remember them ever stating that Kid Buu was the strongest, but I do remember them saying something about how he was the most evil, untamed Buu, and this led to him being the most out of control. They said something along the lines of him having extreme power, but just because he is wild and untamed doesn't mean he is the most effective in a fight. This was proven when Goku was on par with him during their fight on the Kai planet, even before Goku went all out. Goku wasn't even trying his hardest in the beginning and still managed to be about even with Kid Buu. So obviously Kid Buu wasn't that strong, because Goku even had a hard time taking on Fat Buu. He even had to fuse with Vegeta to defeat Buu because he couldn't do it on his own, and according to your logic, Buuhan was even weaker. It makes no sense.

If Buuhan was weaker than Kid Buu (which he was not), then Goku would have no need for fusion. He could have simply annihilated Buu on his own. So no. Kid Buu was not the strongest Buu.

And all in all, you seemed to have completely forgotten Buutenks and Super Buu. They are clearly both stronger than all of the characters you named after Buuhan. And Ultimate Gohan would have been stronger than Fat Buu because he defeated Super Buu. Evil Buu and Good Buu (and maybe even Fat Buu) should not be on that list.

Sorry for tearing your list down. Just throwing in my few cents. ;)
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J-Smack Aug 2 2011, 03:09 PM Post #188
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lunar2
Aug 1 2011, 07:58 PM
by the manga, ssj3 gotenks far outpowers ssj3 goku, and is about even with super buu. both are weaker than ultimate gohan, by events shown and by goten and trunks' own statements.

the simplified powerscale in the manga for the buu arc is this:

vegito > buuhan > buutenks > gohan > ssj3 gotenks ~ super buu > ssj3 goku ~ kid buu > fat buu > evil buu > good buu > ssj2 goku = ssj2 majin vegeta

however, the anime is very different, because of the filler added in. in the anime, kid buu is stated by kibitokai and by the narrator to be the most powerful buu.

ultimate gohan is shown to be between mssj goku and ssj2 goku. mssj goku was fighting fairly well against the gohan figment inside buu, and he states that this gohan is as powerful as the real gohan.

along with other fillers, the anime powerscale ends up like this:

ssj3 goku > kid buu > buuhan > fat buu > evil buu > good buu > ssj2 goku = ssj2 majin vegeta > ultimate gohan > ssj3 gotenks ~ super buu

and so super buu ends up the weakest form of buu, and ssj3 goku is somewhere on par with at least base vegito.
I am very confused as to how Super Buu is at the bottom, Mystic Gohan is less powerful than SSJ2 Goku, and Fat Buu is stronger than Evil Buu. I know you're going off of anime statements and not manga--otherwise, I'd say almost the entire list is wrong.
darkwarrior
 
has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe Trunks just bought his sword somewhere or something? There's nothing really special about it.

Y2J
 
Well it did manage to slice Frieza into a shishkebab so it must've been packing more power than your average blade. Hell even Zelda's sword couldn't pull off that ****.



ObsessiveFanGirl
 
I don't believe in power levels after the Frieza Saga. :D
Now, there's an idea.
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Doggo Champion 2k17 Aug 2 2011, 05:27 PM Post #189
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J-Smack
Aug 2 2011, 03:09 PM
lunar2
Aug 1 2011, 07:58 PM
by the manga, ssj3 gotenks far outpowers ssj3 goku, and is about even with super buu. both are weaker than ultimate gohan, by events shown and by goten and trunks' own statements.

the simplified powerscale in the manga for the buu arc is this:

vegito > buuhan > buutenks > gohan > ssj3 gotenks ~ super buu > ssj3 goku ~ kid buu > fat buu > evil buu > good buu > ssj2 goku = ssj2 majin vegeta

however, the anime is very different, because of the filler added in. in the anime, kid buu is stated by kibitokai and by the narrator to be the most powerful buu.

ultimate gohan is shown to be between mssj goku and ssj2 goku. mssj goku was fighting fairly well against the gohan figment inside buu, and he states that this gohan is as powerful as the real gohan.

along with other fillers, the anime powerscale ends up like this:

ssj3 goku > kid buu > buuhan > fat buu > evil buu > good buu > ssj2 goku = ssj2 majin vegeta > ultimate gohan > ssj3 gotenks ~ super buu

and so super buu ends up the weakest form of buu, and ssj3 goku is somewhere on par with at least base vegito.
I am very confused as to how Super Buu is at the bottom, Mystic Gohan is less powerful than SSJ2 Goku, and Fat Buu is stronger than Evil Buu. I know you're going off of anime statements and not manga--otherwise, I'd say almost the entire list is wrong.
I agree. Super Buu can't be at the bottom. His list is actually very flawed.

Also, Mystic Gohan is not weaker than SSJ2 Goku. He's weaker than SSJ3 Goku, but just barely.
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+ Steve Aug 2 2011, 05:36 PM Post #190
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

 How are you getting that?
Quote:
 
Mystic Gohan is not weaker than SSJ2 Goku. He's weaker than SSJ3 Goku, but just barely.

That makes no sense at all lol

Gohan never fights Kid Buu there's no evidence to suggest he wouldn't beat him Kid Buu is likely just slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku
There's no way Gohan in his Ultimate form is weaker than SSJ3 Goku that's just flawed

Somebody said that's because Goku beats Kid Buu making him stronger than Gohan, again how does that make sense? He doesn't beat him as an SSJ3 not even close if you remember right he beats him with spirit bomb, which isn't his power

On any list Gohan should be just under Buutenks and Goku is down with Fat, Kid and Evil Buu
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Definitely not a succubus, fear not
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Cocoman Aug 2 2011, 05:37 PM Post #191
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Badabing!
ObsessiveFanGirl
Aug 2 2011, 05:27 PM
J-Smack
Aug 2 2011, 03:09 PM
lunar2
Aug 1 2011, 07:58 PM
by the manga, ssj3 gotenks far outpowers ssj3 goku, and is about even with super buu. both are weaker than ultimate gohan, by events shown and by goten and trunks' own statements.

the simplified powerscale in the manga for the buu arc is this:

vegito > buuhan > buutenks > gohan > ssj3 gotenks ~ super buu > ssj3 goku ~ kid buu > fat buu > evil buu > good buu > ssj2 goku = ssj2 majin vegeta

however, the anime is very different, because of the filler added in. in the anime, kid buu is stated by kibitokai and by the narrator to be the most powerful buu.

ultimate gohan is shown to be between mssj goku and ssj2 goku. mssj goku was fighting fairly well against the gohan figment inside buu, and he states that this gohan is as powerful as the real gohan.

along with other fillers, the anime powerscale ends up like this:

ssj3 goku > kid buu > buuhan > fat buu > evil buu > good buu > ssj2 goku = ssj2 majin vegeta > ultimate gohan > ssj3 gotenks ~ super buu

and so super buu ends up the weakest form of buu, and ssj3 goku is somewhere on par with at least base vegito.
I am very confused as to how Super Buu is at the bottom, Mystic Gohan is less powerful than SSJ2 Goku, and Fat Buu is stronger than Evil Buu. I know you're going off of anime statements and not manga--otherwise, I'd say almost the entire list is wrong.
I agree. Super Buu can't be at the bottom. His list is actually very flawed.

Also, Mystic Gohan is not weaker than SSJ2 Goku. He's weaker than SSJ3 Goku, but just barely.
You don't understand that Lunar and I are going off statements in the anime. Super Buu really does end up as the weakest Buu and Ultimate Gohan is really as weak as MSSJ Goku. It's messed up but thats the way it is.
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Tony Soprano
 
I'm the mother *****in *****in one who calls the shots.
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Cocoman Aug 2 2011, 05:37 PM Post #192
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Badabing!
Steve
Aug 2 2011, 05:36 PM
How are you getting that?
Quote:
 
Mystic Gohan is not weaker than SSJ2 Goku. He's weaker than SSJ3 Goku, but just barely.

That makes no sense at all lol

Gohan never fights Kid Buu there's no evidence to suggest he wouldn't beat him Kid Buu is likely just slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku
There's no way Gohan in his Ultimate form is weaker than SSJ3 Goku that's just flawed

Somebody said that's because Goku beats Kid Buu making him stronger than Gohan, again how does that make sense? He doesn't beat him as an SSJ3 not even close if you remember right he beats him with spirit bomb, which isn't his power

On any list Gohan should be just under Buutenks and Goku is down with Fat, Kid and Evil Buu
Its the anime. It doesn't make sense.
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Tony Soprano
 
I'm the mother *****in *****in one who calls the shots.
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lunar2 Aug 2 2011, 05:59 PM Post #193
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 we all know the manga powerscale, you know, the one where characters' powers actually make sense, but the anime powerscale is thrown off by filler. in the manga, ultimate gohan is the strongest character barring fusions and absorptions, and is actually stronger than 3 fused characters: fat buu (majin buu, south kaioshin, dai kaioshin) super buu (good buu, evil buu) and gotenks (goten, trunks).

in the anime, however, this is thrown off by filler. goku was fighting ultimate gohan, not regular gohan. there is an art difference between the 2, mainly in the hairstyle. vegeta was fighting gotenks. these figments are just as powerful as the real things, by goku's statement.

kid buu was stated twice to be the most powerful buu, in the japanese, so it can't even be blamed on the crappy funi dub. in the anime, kid buu was more powerful than buuhan, it was flat out stated that he was the most powerful.

it doesn't matter whether these 2 points make sense or not. they were stated, and are not open to interpretation. it's filler-made plotholes like these that are the reason the anime is useless as a source of information.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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J-Smack Aug 2 2011, 06:21 PM Post #194
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lunar2
Aug 2 2011, 05:59 PM
we all know the manga powerscale, you know, the one where characters' powers actually make sense, but the anime powerscale is thrown off by filler. in the manga, ultimate gohan is the strongest character barring fusions and absorptions, and is actually stronger than 3 fused characters: fat buu (majin buu, south kaioshin, dai kaioshin) super buu (good buu, evil buu) and gotenks (goten, trunks).

in the anime, however, this is thrown off by filler. goku was fighting ultimate gohan, not regular gohan. there is an art difference between the 2, mainly in the hairstyle. vegeta was fighting gotenks. these figments are just as powerful as the real things, by goku's statement.

kid buu was stated twice to be the most powerful buu, in the japanese, so it can't even be blamed on the crappy funi dub. in the anime, kid buu was more powerful than buuhan, it was flat out stated that he was the most powerful.

it doesn't matter whether these 2 points make sense or not. they were stated, and are not open to interpretation. it's filler-made plotholes like these that are the reason the anime is useless as a source of information.
I don't like the illusion comparison. In actuality, Gotenks and Gohan weren't even beaten; they were knocked down, got up, surrounded Goku and Vegeta, and then turned into cake. This is if you are in the mindset that these "illusions" were comparable in power to their real counterparts. I don't even believe that much, and I don't believe that Toie or AT even wanted us to believe that, although that's just speculation.

Anyway, the first part of this post is pretty solid evidence that the illusions can't prove that Goku or Vegeta are stronger than Mystic Gohan or SSJ3 Gotenks, even if you are making an anime nonsensical power scale comparison.
darkwarrior
 
has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe Trunks just bought his sword somewhere or something? There's nothing really special about it.

Y2J
 
Well it did manage to slice Frieza into a shishkebab so it must've been packing more power than your average blade. Hell even Zelda's sword couldn't pull off that ****.



ObsessiveFanGirl
 
I don't believe in power levels after the Frieza Saga. :D
Now, there's an idea.
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Doggo Champion 2k17 Aug 2 2011, 06:48 PM Post #195
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J-Smack
Aug 2 2011, 06:21 PM
lunar2
Aug 2 2011, 05:59 PM
we all know the manga powerscale, you know, the one where characters' powers actually make sense, but the anime powerscale is thrown off by filler. in the manga, ultimate gohan is the strongest character barring fusions and absorptions, and is actually stronger than 3 fused characters: fat buu (majin buu, south kaioshin, dai kaioshin) super buu (good buu, evil buu) and gotenks (goten, trunks).

in the anime, however, this is thrown off by filler. goku was fighting ultimate gohan, not regular gohan. there is an art difference between the 2, mainly in the hairstyle. vegeta was fighting gotenks. these figments are just as powerful as the real things, by goku's statement.

kid buu was stated twice to be the most powerful buu, in the japanese, so it can't even be blamed on the crappy funi dub. in the anime, kid buu was more powerful than buuhan, it was flat out stated that he was the most powerful.

it doesn't matter whether these 2 points make sense or not. they were stated, and are not open to interpretation. it's filler-made plotholes like these that are the reason the anime is useless as a source of information.
I don't like the illusion comparison. In actuality, Gotenks and Gohan weren't even beaten; they were knocked down, got up, surrounded Goku and Vegeta, and then turned into cake. This is if you are in the mindset that these "illusions" were comparable in power to their real counterparts. I don't even believe that much, and I don't believe that Toie or AT even wanted us to believe that, although that's just speculation.

Anyway, the first part of this post is pretty solid evidence that the illusions can't prove that Goku or Vegeta are stronger than Mystic Gohan or SSJ3 Gotenks, even if you are making an anime nonsensical power scale comparison.
I totally agree with that.

I understand why Cocoman and lunar think the way they do, but some of their evidence is very flawed, like the one mentioned above. There just isn't enough evidence in the anime to assume that Goku is stronger than Gohan, and that Vegeta is stronger than Gotenks. Sorry, but there's not. Especially when:

1) The illusions probably were not as strong as the real thing. Who cares if Goku said it, it doesn't mean he was referring to Ultimate Gohan or that it's true.

2) Gohan defeated Super Buu. Goku could barely take on Fat Buu and Kid Buu.

I'm so confused as to how anyone could think that MSSJ Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan. That one flawed scene honestly means nothing when deciding this. Sorry.
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