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- 100% Frieza (fully restored) VS SSJ Goku
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| 100% Frieza (fully restored) VS SSJ Goku | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 2 2009, 06:06 PM (396 Views) | |
| Psyam | Jun 2 2009, 06:06 PM Post #1 |
 
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Ok, we need a new topic. Now, before everyone starts screaming "Goku!", I want you to think about it a little. When Frieza fought Goku, he had been fighting all day. First against Nail, then against Vegeta, Krillin (who chopped off his tail), Piccolo (who he took a pounding from) and Gohan (who also beat him up a couple of times). The battle had gone on for ages before Goku got there. Frieza had also transformed three times, which probably took some of his energy as well. Then Frieza fought Goku, who got a few good hits in, but Goku was beaten up pretty bad. As Frieza had been beat up before transforming as well, let's cancel out both Goku's and Frieza's injury's before their final showdown. Except for the Spirit Bomb. The Spirit Bomb caused extreme damage to Frieza. It kept him out of sight for a good while, he couldn't even block it. It damaged his whole body, ruined his eye and even somehow chopped off his tail (again). I also suspect that it had huge after effects on him, as it's designed to destroy evil. I think it weakened him a LOT. Also, He then got totally trashed by a SSJ Goku before he could power up, injuring him even more. Despite these MASSIVE injurys, when Frieza first powered up to 100%, he seemed to have an advantage on Goku for a little while. Goku was shocked at how strong he was. However, his power quickly drained away, not because he was using all of his power (as no other fighter has ever got negative effects from doing so), but because of the damage he sustained earlier. Now the question: If Frieza was fully rested would his 100% self be able to beat Goku? I think he would, due to the fact he was pounding on SSJ Goku before he lost too much power. Opinions? |
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| SSJVegito | Jun 2 2009, 10:57 PM Post #2 |
Ally to good. Nightmare to you.
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This is a good battle! And thining about it, it would definitely be the most epic battle in DB history... Hmm. Of course I want to say Goku. But I'm leaning towards Frieza. But at the same time, I don't think Frieza took nearly as much damage before the spirit bomb as Goku did. Even with battling Nail, Piccolo, etc... I mean Frieza was far stronger than all of them. And Goku got thrashed against final form Frieza. Also let's just say that Frieza went straight to his final form instead of underestimating everyone. He wouldn't have taken hardly any damage. But Goku would've taken the same amount as he only battled final form Frieza. I think fully rested Frieza and fully rested SSJ Goku, it'd be really close. Almost too close to decide but I'm going against my better judgement and saying Frieza... It hurts me to say that. haha. |
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| Trickster | Jun 2 2009, 10:58 PM Post #3 |
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I would have to say frieza this time. They were pretty close when it came down to it, and frieza was more wore out than goku, so that says a little. plus what pretty much ended it was frieza destructo disc hitting himself. |
 A true worrior becomes a legend A true saiyan becomes a GOD | |
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| Rebel X | Jun 2 2009, 11:15 PM Post #4 |
 
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Are you talking about when Goku was a Super Sayian for the very first time against Frieza? Like he just transforms after Krillin is killed? |
I am the light of darkness  Thanks to + Light for the sig and avatar | |
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| SSJVegito | Jun 3 2009, 02:46 AM Post #5 |
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Ally to good. Nightmare to you.
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Yeah that's what we're getting at. But assuming Goku and Frieza hadn't been beat to $#!@ prior to them powering up. |
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| Rebel X | Jun 3 2009, 06:15 AM Post #6 |
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That's another thing to consider too though, I mean sure Goku just went super and sure Frieza fought like 4 other people b4 hand but Goku was pretty beat up too before he started fighting Frieza at his 100% or b4 he even went Super. Frieza really messed him up. I think it'd be a good fight almost the same as the first yet I think Goku would still win. Not by a huge amount or anything but still Goku, in my opinion, would make it out with a win. On a side note, this would be something interesting to see played out. I'm not voting just yet, but I will be coming back to elaborate more. It's like 4am and i need sleep lol |
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I am the light of darkness Thanks to + Light for the sig and avatar | |
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| Psyam | Jun 3 2009, 02:45 PM Post #7 |
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This is surprising. I thought everyone was going to scream Goku at me, to be honest. Good to see that other people find this interesting too.Your right, I don't think he did. However, Frieza got beaten up very badly by SSJ Goku before he went full power. I think by the time he went 100% he would have been more damaged then Goku, even without the Spirit Bomb. Plus Goku didn't seem bothered by his damage any more once he transformed, while Frieza was still hurting. At the moment I'm sticking with Frieza, because he was beating on Goku before he started losing power. It's unknown how much stronger Goku would of been if he was rested as well, though. Still, I think Frieza had surpassed the legend he feared so much. Goku was only a fledgling Super Saiyan. |
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| Rebel X | Jun 3 2009, 02:52 PM Post #8 |
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This is a close call mate good situation |
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I am the light of darkness Thanks to + Light for the sig and avatar | |
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| SSJVegito | Jun 3 2009, 04:48 PM Post #9 |
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Ally to good. Nightmare to you.
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Now even though I agree and already voted I'm going to scream Goku to make me feel better. GOKU! |
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| BattleMetal | Jun 3 2009, 09:25 PM Post #10 |
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Ok there lads this is fun to discuss and something that i have wondered. I would still give to Goku though BUT Frieza is one tough dude, i mean even at the end when Goku said 'Its done' Frieza although scared, wounded and worn out was still willing to fight. Mind you thats from pride, he couldnt admit that he was beaten. Goku just would not quit, you could break every limb in his body he would not give in, he always believes there is a way, he had a spirit stronger than any metal. Goku doesnt get off on facing weak opponents and enjoys facing stronger enemies. Frieza not so much, he lived in the belief and the knowledge that nothing could possibly be better than him. OK Frieza didnt lose any strength when he transformed, he healed from any previous injury and his PL increased, its often commented on by Gohan and Co. that his injuries all had been healed (apart from in his final form) Goku himself also had been fighting for a long time (against the Ginyu Force), he was heavily beat up on (well HIS body suffered a beating by Vegeta when Ginyu swapped but still he had to go through the stress of being in a wounded alien body before returning to his own broken body). Goku himself suffered a serious battering at the hands of Frieza and over exerting himself with the Kaio-Ken times 20. Frieza was much stronger and although he did take some damage it wasnt enough to really dent him. Its like a man fighting with kids, they might be able to hurt him a bit but in the end they cant put him down or even wound him and the man would not really have to put much effort into putting them down. Frieza himself never really suffered serious injury, the tail being cut off and such where just flesh wounds to Frieza, scratches and bruises, that is until the Spirit Bomb. This does really wind him but he is able to get his breath back (well until Goku goes postal and turns Super Saiyan and slaps him around a bit). Giving him a second wind. He burns himself out at 100% but have you tried running as hard and as fast as you can, how long would you last, not long, maybe 30 seconds. This was his trump card (outside of blowing up the planet). I mean you can run at 50% ability and probably do 6 miles (in say 30 mins) with energy to spare but if you run full out, maximum sprint then you wont last longer than a minute and wont be able to recover for ages. Frieza fought out of personal pride and to fulfill his bullying need to be the best, to humble his enemy. Goku fought to protect his friends, for the challenge and to avenge the death of his fallen comrade. |
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| Psyam | Jun 3 2009, 09:43 PM Post #11 |
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You can't use Goku being beaten by Ginyu either, though. Goku repeatedly said he wouldn't be able to help out unless he was 100% (thinking inside the rejuvenation chamber), when he came out of the chamber he was fully healed. Also, although people may get tired in real life giving it their all, nobody else in DBZ that I can think of loses huge amounts of power by using their all. Take Goku at the Cell Games for example, he powered up to his max but didn't rapidly lose energy, did he? The only reason Frieza was losing power was because he had been severly damaged, both by SSJ Goku's beatings and the Spirit Bomb. Goku said "are you sure your damaged body can handle your full power?". No other fighter loses energy at the insane rate Frieza did (from having the upper hand to "not even being a challenge", in what was supposed to be "five minutes".) Therefore it must have been Frieza's damage that caused it. Goku would never give up, but neither would Frieza. Strong willed or not, Goku can't do anything if every bone in his body IS broken. Also, while his transformations may have healed Frieza, there's nothing to say they didn't still use some energy up. He seemed to have to work pretty hard to transform. Maybe it wouldn't be a noticeable amount to the Z Fighters as his power level would be much higher from transforming anyway, but it could still be a factor. |
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| BattleMetal | Jun 3 2009, 10:09 PM Post #12 |
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Yeah your right. Goku does get fully recovered, i just meant that he suffered damage previous compared to Frieza who hadnt been injured while fighting against the likes of Nail. My point was to say that Frieza was really just so much stronger than the Z fighters and that despite looking like he was taking serious damage to Frieza it wasnt really much more than a tickle. So even though he had been fighting all day he wasnt really pushed to using the extremes of his power till the last moment. When you think about it he hadnt really used any major chi type of attacks until he fought Goku as a Super Saiyan, he only ever used his Death Beam attack upto that point. BUT yeah the Spirit bomb does really dent his chi in. I still think that he would have just burn himself out at 100% even if he hadnt suffered damage at his peaked his power. It just would have taken Goku longer to beat him. I think you can compare things to Z to real life, just on a smaller scale, i understand physical limits and what its likes to be in a fight and all of the many varied things that happen to the heart, mind and body of a fighter. Dragonball Z is completely nuts but you can still look at that way. Like when Vegeta goes all out against #18, he does well but naturally loses stamina, she unnaturally does not and simply waits him out and beats him up when he is fatigued. My point about the broken body thing was really meant as a question of character. Frieza has an equally strong will but just lacks thats substance needed in a fight. Like when he faces Trunks he resorted to desparate measures and nearly buckled at the thought of facing a stronger enemy (well it more a case of the memory that Trunks Super Saiyan form triggered in him to freak out). Goku going max at the Cell Games and being able to sustain it for a long period would be down to his training. Take Pro boxer Ricky Hatton, he trains incredbly hard, starting at 3 round until he can do 15 rounders leading upto a fight so when he gets into a ring he can fight at nearly 100% capacity for 12 rounds, overwhelming most opponents. Goku trained hard then rested before the Cell Games so thats why he could fight hard for a length of time. Still i think that Goku would win this as he has very strong techniques and is a versatile fighter who can adapt to the situation, being inventive (remeber when he did that thing when he launched 2 fireballs at Frieza, using his weakness at not being able to sense chi, tricking him before smashing him from above OR the Warp KameHameHa he used against Cell). Mind you Frieza did have his own tricks up his sleeve. Good debating with you Pysam on this one man, your a clever person. 
Edited by BattleMetal, Jun 4 2009, 04:41 PM.
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| Psyam | Jun 5 2009, 04:22 PM Post #13 |
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I still don't see why Frieza would lose energy uninjured, though. Both of them will get tired out, yes, but Frieza shouldn't lose mass amounts of energy faster then Goku when he's fully rested.All I meant was that spirit will only get you so far, it won't always save you. Yes, Frieza freaked out a little, but I think anyone would, even Goku, if they had to fight an opponent who transformed into the same type of being that cut your tail, legs and arm off and left you floating nearly dead in space. Can't blame Frieza, really. That would have broken anyone's mind. Goku isn't the only example. Goten and Kid Trunks can both fight for a good while as Super Saiyan's without tiring out for example. As can many other fighters such as Vegeta, Piccolo, Kid Gohan, Krillin...etc. It doesen't make sense why Frieza would be the only fighter to rapidly lose power when he powers up. I don't think there is a real answer to this. I am pretty sure a rested Frieza could beat the injured SSJ Goku as Frieza only lost because his power drained away (he had an advantage when he powered up at first), and I don't think he'd lose power rapidly if he wasn't injured. However, it's unknown how much stronger a rested SSJ Goku would be, so its pretty much impossible to prove who would be stronger if they were both rested, but it does make a good topic. |
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| BattleMetal | Jun 5 2009, 04:54 PM Post #14 |
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Mmm im thinking of this fight as far as Frieza and Goku fighting on equal levels, so Frieza wont get drained like he did when he initially fought Goku and they are on equal power levels. It would more a case of skill and will of either fighter, their attitudes towars combat and life, what drives them and what techniques they hold in their arsenal. This theory holds up as long as you discount GT and the Super Saiyan Form 4 stage. Goku and the others and able to sustain there Super Saiyan forms as their bodies are naturally able to withstand the power, however when they attain too high a level like Goku at SS3, he was very powerful but only able to sustain the form for short periods of time. Saiyans/ hybrids can tap in much deeper wells of power than any othe race in the universe as long as they meet the right criteria. For me Friezas last form is his SS3, it is his ultimate state (forget Coolers 5th form it doesnt count as its from a movie) thats why he doesnt go about in his ultimate form, to conserve energy. It burns him out, he can maintain it on a smaller level but when he goes 100% the shock of it attacks his own body after a time. I know this feeling, i can hit a punchbag for hours at say 50% but when i go all out i can only maintain it for a short time (like a min) and it takes me while to recover enough to attack again at that level. Frieza also wasnt used to fighting at such a high level. Being powerful he doesnt train to maintain a high standard as most beings in the universe (at this Frieza saga time) are far weaker than his first form. Goku trained frequently and was constantly being tested with bigger challenges, always facing stronger opponents, like an up and coming fighter. Freiza is like the veteran champion who has been on top for so long that he doesnt believe he needs to train to beat anyone, he just will because he believes he is that good and up till that point it had been the case. A trap that many champions fall into once they reach the top. |
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| Captain Ginyu | Jun 5 2009, 05:32 PM Post #15 |
 
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I said Frieza. The points made in the opening post really made me look at Frieza in a different light. He had been fighting loads before the Goku fight, and he still proved more than a match for Goku! His power was HUGE even though he was beaten down! |
YOU CAN TUNE A PIANO, BUT YOU CAN'T TUNE A FISH!!! - Tien Shinhan
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