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| Killing and the Army | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 17 2009, 10:25 PM (1,659 Views) | |
| Temphis | May 25 2009, 12:40 AM Post #16 |
Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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okay, calm down man, I think you misunderstood. I said, "CONSEQUENCE FOR CERTAIN ACTIONS". for example, Hitler was a man worthy of death, as are many sociopaths and rapists. so what the crap does that have to do with babies? dying? sorry, but I completely disagree with your statement?....I'm not sure what you are trying to say actually, but I think you misunderstood. feel free to expound on what you were trying to say if you really understand what you just said. sorry I don't mean to offend you, just saying, I think you pulled what I said into a context that isn't even on the table right now. BTW, heres what I think happened. correct me if I'm wrong, but I think whilst reading everything on here, you probably had a few random tangents of thoughts and just happened to post them in response to my comment. rather than actually reading what was put all the way through, you perhaps just were caught up with the tangents in your mind and shared them right away, and then felt satisfied so you left without even so much as proof reading what you had said. if you didn't do that, than.....gee I don't even know, I can't think of any other excuse for attacking my sound statement like that 
Edited by Temphis, May 25 2009, 12:50 AM.
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| * -Zero- | May 25 2009, 03:23 AM Post #17 |
Black Knight
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You said "well, I feel death is a just consequence for certain actions" I guess I did misunderstood you, because to me that sounded like you were saying what many religious crap say, that death occurs because you have done something like that. Like for example, if someone dies it means that they have does. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding Having said that and re reading your statement I still respectfully disagree since death will occur no matter what happens. Everyone dies |
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| Temphis | May 25 2009, 02:05 PM Post #18 |
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Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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.... what? you re-read my statement and still pulled it out of context?  look, I am not talking about "Natural" consequences, I'm talking about killing another human being out of self defense, or capital punishment, k. I'm going to dismiss this whole misunderstanding. I do agree with your statement of "since death will occur no matter what happens. Everyone dies". however, you are using this in the context that people die of natural consequences, not because of their actions. that is a completely different context than what I was using, as well as what this topic is about, which is "is it wrong for the army to make you kill another human being." so please, share your views, concerning if the army telling you to kill someone, is ok. |
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| BattleMetal | May 25 2009, 02:36 PM Post #19 |
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I would join the army if i could. Dont know if i could handle the pressure, like if i made some serious mistakes and had to deal with the responsibility. I would fight though as its in my nature. Killing though thats a different ball game, from a distance i imagine it would be easier (to do but it would eat away at my conscience knowing that i had) but up close when the man is staring you in the face could i take him out? Seeing the look in his eyes, seeing that body language where someone backs down but you've got a job to do and knowing he would be a risk? I see the army on a smaller scale like this- Someone tried to break into your home what would you do? Someone attacks your family how would you act? Someone threatens you with extreme force how do you react? Someone has plenty to share but keeps it all to themselves when everyone else is in need, how do you ask when you know it wont do anything? You give people an inch they will rip your entire arm off right out of the socket. Youve got to step on things quick and fast, you cant turn your back on small things or they will build into something too huge and you wont ever be able to get that power back, at least not without extreme damage that could destroy you and the opposition. It harsh but true. |
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| * -Zero- | May 25 2009, 04:47 PM Post #20 |
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Black Knight
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Then don't use that statement at all, if you are going to use that statement only towards some scenarios then its better not being used at all. Come on ""well, I feel death is a just consequence for certain actions" when you say something like that you're pretty much speak over all. It's like if I say I believe when you die you go into another world, it's not like I;m only going to believe only some will go to another world, it's overall. What should have said was, "To some people I believe death is a just consequence for certain actions" now you're speaking of just some and not all people. |
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| Temphis | May 26 2009, 03:18 PM Post #21 |
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Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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In response to Zero's statements: I put "I feel that", not "Death is just as a consequence for certain actions". I am not gonna keep trying to tell you that your pulling my words out of context, this is just ridiculous. 3 times man! you said "What should have said was, "To some people I believe death is a just consequence for certain actions" now you're speaking of just some and not all people." okay, first off, please use correct grammar when trying to say someone is wrong about something, it's allready hard enough for me to understand where your coming from, because I don't see the problem. okay, so, when you said, "some scenarios", which ones do you feel I'm referring to? I'm talking about "I feel people who do certain atrocities, should be killed." I do believe in second chances, but certain actions are inexcusable, like a rapist sociopath who mutilates his victims and takes pictures of it and puts it on their wall, doesn't deserve a second chance. It doesn't really matter what "scenarios" I'm referring to though. the statement is "certain actions" which is a very non specific statement. and of course, there are always circumstances that effect things, but we are talking about "Consequences" like justice for crimes. why would I say "to some people" if I'm referring to what I believe? If I were to say what your suggesting, I would be saying that "I don't believe that death is a just consequence for certain actions, but some people believe that I do" WHAT THE CRAP!?! WHY WOULD ANYONE EVER SAY THAT!? >:( please don't try to correct me unless you understand what your goal is in correcting me, and also that your fulfilling that goal before you click "add reply" because as you can probably see, I don't appreciate people ranting about stuff I said if it don't make sense! so, in direct response to you saying "now you're speaking of just some and not all people." I say, "I was "speaking" of myself, not anyone else" I still don't understand why you have a problem with what I said, it's my personal view, I am not imposing it on you, I'm just sharing it, thats what this is for, sharing views. you can share you disagree, thats fine, but when you come out and say I'm wrong, thats called being a close minded infant. you can't just tell someone, "No no no! your sooo wrong!!!" when they are sharing how they feel on a topic. they obviously have different life experiences than you, else they wouldn't feel that way. also, your accusing me of speaking "over all" which I assume you meant to say "your speaking as if anyone who feels differently than you is wrong" which would be a valid concern, if I hadn't stated "I feel that". I'm not mad at you though, so I won't let this affect how I treat you otherwise in any other topic, etc. I don't get offended very easily and I assume you don't mean to be rude or anything. you would have to really try to offend me. however, I am irritated that you aren't really understanding me, since this is the third time, and it dose lead me to believe that you are either very young or just immature; ya know, with all the bad grammar and pulling stuff out of context. BTW, you still haven't once shared your own feelings on this topic, though based on your objections to my feelings on it, I assume your anti death, and maybe even, if you could put how strongly you feel that way on a power level scanner, it'd be over 9000. just kidding. but seriously, share your views concerning the topic, rather than bashing others views. Edited by Temphis, May 26 2009, 07:27 PM.
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| * -Zero- | May 26 2009, 06:46 PM Post #22 |
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Black Knight
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Im not even ging to bother reading the whole thing, because as soon as I said use correct grammar, it just completely told me you know what, this is one of those people that has to bring up grammar. So you know what whatever. |
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| Temphis | May 26 2009, 07:26 PM Post #23 |
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Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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the only reason I brought up grammar is cause what your saying is confusing and doesn't make sense. I didn't mean to offend you. If I understood where you were coming from I wouldn't have said anything, but I don't, so I was just saying, don't tell me I'm wrong for making a statement improperly if you can't make a statement properly, especially if your not willing to help me understand why. I get the feeling you don't like reading my posts all the way through if they are too long, since it seems you haven't noticed my on going theme in these replies. BTW, you still haven't shared how you feel on this topic. Edited by Temphis, May 26 2009, 07:37 PM.
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| * -Zero- | May 26 2009, 07:36 PM Post #24 |
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Black Knight
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Since before you even posted for the first time |
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| Temphis | May 26 2009, 07:52 PM Post #25 |
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Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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oops. silly me, I didn't check to see that, my bad, sorry about that. hope I wasn't being rude then, I feel bad about saying that over and over than. well, to get back on to this topic, I feel that it would be really hard to kill someone, regardless of who they are, as long as you don't know if they deserve it or not. the likely hood of someone on the enemy army being a corrupted sadistic freak is low, and if they are older, chances are they have a wife and kids that they want to go home to. seeing someone close up and then having to be the one to pull the trigger first to see who gets to keep living would be hard, and in some cases, I feel war has not been required for peace, but in some cases it is. I just don't want to be caught in the middle of a war that could have been avoided, since in that circumstance, it's not a good reason to kill a bunch of husbands and young men if it could have been resolved another way. either way though, war is war, and you can't just stop fighting a war, it takes time, and alot of deaths, before the leaders are humbled enough to choose to stop, or until the leaders are dead, and the enemy forces are disbanded. |
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| * -Zero- | May 26 2009, 07:54 PM Post #26 |
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Black Knight
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Thanks, I was getting quite offended since my posts were never made to offend, yet your replies seemed like you were getting angry over something not that big, Anyways back on topic before this become a spam fest Edited by -Zero-, May 26 2009, 07:56 PM.
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| * Sousen Ichimonji | Jun 16 2009, 09:22 PM Post #27 |
You are calm and reposed, let your beauty unfold
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So, by that logic, if a person was threatening you to your face, and you were able to kill them to save yourself, you wouldn't? You would rather be killed in that situation that defend yourself? I've always been a staunch believer in the greater good. What I do not believe in is a persons ability to recognise the greater good. I'm very aware that this makes me sound cold, but it is what I personally believe: if given the chance right now, I would kill Hitler. I've visited Auschwitz. I've seen what he caused. His life wasn't worth that suffering. No-ones life was worth that suffering. And I know that this sounds even colder, but I stand by it: I would kill an innocent person, whom I had never met, to stop the suffering of the masses. I don't think I'm too suited to the army, but if ever the situation arose in which my principals beckoned me to join the army, I would. |
 Call me a safe bet, I'm betting I'm not I'm glad that you can forgive, only hoping as time goes, you can forget | |
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| + Byakko | Jun 16 2009, 09:39 PM Post #28 |
I once gave a Kangaroo a heart-attack just by staring at it
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I'm not going to lay down and die. There are ways to stop an attacker without killing them. Or even using an amount of force needed to kill. If you misunderstood that, then you don't get the topic. I know the guilt that some people have after taking a life. I know some people have no problem detonating a bomb, throwing a grenade or pulling the trigger. I know I would have a problem. I have family in the army, I know people who have sons in the army. Some have said it's like a video game, an intense game of COD, perhaps. I wouldn't find it that way. I'd know I've taken somebodies son or daughter. I've taken somebodies husband or wife. I've taken away a father, I've taken away a mother. There are reasons for killing, but no excuses. If you kill, even in self defence, that does not justify your murder. I don't doubt that somebody could kill. I don't misunderstand that somebody could find killing fun or enjoyable. I find it disgusting. You may be able to kill one in order to save 10, a hundred, a thousand. But I couldn't. If you kill, somebody will want you killed in turn. The chain of hatred carries on, with another link added. If a brother loses a brother, would he want to kill the man who took away his own flesh and blood? Of course. Would that man's son want to kill the man who took away his father? Yes. Would the friend of the two now-dead brothers want revenge? Yes. The chain of pain, suffering and loss continues. Pulling the trigger only confirms that. |
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GFX Portfolio Tumblr DeviantArt  Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'" | |
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| * Sousen Ichimonji | Jun 17 2009, 03:58 PM Post #29 |
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You are calm and reposed, let your beauty unfold
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But this is true of any form of death, in the current world. If a man dies of an illness, his family will recognise the suffering of that illness and will contribute to stopping it. I should know; ever since my great uncle, whom I was very close to, died of Cancer, I've been helping my mum organise coffee mornings, I've been contributing to charities like MacMillan Cancer Relief, etc. The fact is, what ever a person dies of, there will be actions taken by those that suffer because of their death.
And there are ways of taking revenge without killing. Wanting revenge on a person that murdered your sibling doesn't mean you have to become a vigilantee. I stand by what I have said: I haven't been in a situation in which I have had to balance 2 lives against each other, nor do I ever wish to. I would find such a choice unbearable. But one persons life against those of two people? With a heavy heart, I find the decision notably easier. I apologise going off topic: I have nothing more to say about the army. |
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Call me a safe bet, I'm betting I'm not I'm glad that you can forgive, only hoping as time goes, you can forget | |
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| Mc Esse | Jul 1 2009, 05:08 AM Post #30 |
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To answer the OP's question, I'll shall keep it simple: Of course. You know why? Because it would be my job and in my best interest. Whether I volunteer or get drafted. Anyways, some militants I know sure know how to party, and the benefits they get are better than my own. I recomend you all to watch the movie Three Kings, it's perception of working for the army is not to shabby. |
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