Killing and the Army

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Killing and the Army
Tweet Topic Started: May 17 2009, 10:25 PM (1,655 Views)
+ Byakko	May 17 2009, 10:25 PM Post #1
I once gave a Kangaroo a heart-attack just by staring at it Posts: 10,219 Group: Legend Member #158 Joined: February 7, 2005 Gender Male Favourite Anime Naruto Shippuuden What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Fullmetal Alchemist	Well, I was talking to some American guy on Omeagle. He'd been in the army, been to Iraq. Killed. This, obviously, led to questions. Also led to a sorta debate. I said "I'm too lazy for the army, it changes people" "It's your duty though" "It's not my duty to take another's right to live, I'll leave that to somebody who can pull the trigger when the time came." "It's a duty, giving back to the country that gave you everything." What I mean is, do you think that what the army asks you to do is right? This isn't about Iraq, Iran, Vietnam, Korea, WW1 or WW2. Or any war. Do you think, that in the name of your country, in the "name" of peace, that you'd kill? COULD you kill? I know, or at least I'm positive (having never been in a situation where I could take another's life), that I could kill. "Killing isn't as simple as the innocent believe." I think this statement is true. I doubt that, given sacrificing my own life, or sacrificing another's, I'd sacrifice my own.
	GFX Portfolio Tumblr DeviantArt Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'"


* -Zero-	May 17 2009, 10:28 PM Post #2
Black Knight Posts: 8,697 Group: Retired Staff Member #1,874 Joined: November 5, 2006 Favourite Anime Code Geass, Death Note, Dragonball/Z	I'm going too keep this short, I forget where but I saw something that said "Bombing for peace is the same as having sex for virginity" I think that statement makes pretty clear what I think about wars and killing for peace, completely contradictory
	Thanks to Kid Buu for the sig! The story where DBZF Members are the characters! DBZF:The Unknown Conspiracy POSITIVE ZERO PRODUCTIONS ZeroGuild Forum!


+ Byakko	May 17 2009, 10:30 PM Post #3
I once gave a Kangaroo a heart-attack just by staring at it Posts: 10,219 Group: Legend Member #158 Joined: February 7, 2005 Gender Male Favourite Anime Naruto Shippuuden What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Fullmetal Alchemist	What about Saddam? Would you have let him live, knowing he'd killed thousands? What about Hitler? What if you could go back in time and stop it all from happening? Could you pull the trigger, aware that you'd prevent 52 Million people dying?
	GFX Portfolio Tumblr DeviantArt Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'"


* -Zero-	May 17 2009, 10:34 PM Post #4
Black Knight Posts: 8,697 Group: Retired Staff Member #1,874 Joined: November 5, 2006 Favourite Anime Code Geass, Death Note, Dragonball/Z	Killing one person which has killed many people already is one thing, going out on a full out war and bombing places which can kill innocent people is another. I'd hate really hate to have to kill someone but if I had to kill One person to save millions, I'd do it. I would commit the lesser of the two evil to ensure millions would be saved
	Thanks to Kid Buu for the sig! The story where DBZF Members are the characters! DBZF:The Unknown Conspiracy POSITIVE ZERO PRODUCTIONS ZeroGuild Forum!


+ Byakko	May 17 2009, 10:41 PM Post #5
I once gave a Kangaroo a heart-attack just by staring at it Posts: 10,219 Group: Legend Member #158 Joined: February 7, 2005 Gender Male Favourite Anime Naruto Shippuuden What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Fullmetal Alchemist	But you know that Hitler survived WW1 because he was blinded by Gas? That means that somebody missed, or somebody didn't - or couldn't - fire. That means that somebody either chickened out, or thought that by incapacitating their enemy, they weren't staining their hands. You don't know what people will become, so the person you could be killing could be the messiah, or he could be the next Hitler. By letting the person live, you could be bringing about a new age of the world, with faith confirmed, the "messiah" would be indebted to you. That'd be awesome. On the other hand, the person could turn out to kill more than any other person, any virus, any plague. That person could turn around and wipe out 33% of the whole population. You don't know. Having the benifit of hindsight allows you to see that you are commiting the lesser of two evils, but the uncertainty of the future doesn't
	GFX Portfolio Tumblr DeviantArt Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'"


* Mitas	May 18 2009, 09:19 AM Post #6
It truly was a Shawshank redemption Posts: 12,129 Group: Retired Staff Member #2,993 Joined: December 16, 2007 Gender Male Favourite Anime DBZ What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DBZ, Full Metal Alchemist	Firstly, I would never join the army. Mostly because I wouldn't be able to hack it, but I also wouldn't want to be put in these positions that you've said. Obviously the extreme cases you have mentioned such as Saddam and Hitler are people that I almost everyone would kill with no hesitation, but how many people are there like that? How many times will you be in that situation when joining the army? In most cases never. The average soldier will just have to kill other average soldiers, possibly even child soldiers. You have to understand that if they don't kill these others then they will die themselves. My best friends girlfriends step-dad is a retired soldier. He had to kill a child soldier who had a gun pointed at him ready to pull the trigger. And you better believe he did it with no hesitation because when you're in a split-second stand-off with someone who will kill you, you have to kill them no matter who they are. I would never put myself in that situation as I wouldn't join the army, but if I was forced into the army via conscription then I would have to kill people. But hopefully that never happens. Also in regards to what that guy said, I don't believe it is anyones duty to fight for their country's army. Why risk your life for the political struggles that are 90% of the time the result of governments and presidents etc.
	"Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."


Temphis	May 18 2009, 12:25 PM Post #7
Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory! Posts: 1,223 Group: Member Member #3,903 Joined: January 6, 2009 Gender Male Favourite Anime Ghost in the Shell: S.A.C., Katananagari, Mushishi, Full Metal: Brotherhood, CowboyBeebop, Monster What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Gantz, Berserk, One Punch Man, Dragon Ball, One Piece, Attack on Titan, Re: Monster, (no more room)	I feel, what's really important is about the army, is that it's made to protect our beliefs, our families, and our freedoms from opposing forces. unfortunately, the army isn't a perfect institution, and it's led by imperfect people, so yes, some mistakes might be made, but there is an undiniable importance to it's existance, and I feel we should fight when we feel our family, homes, views, and rights are being threatened. Wars are waged because of conflicting views, but if the views of the enemy consist of brainwashing and forcing children to believe that me and my family should die because we have different views than them is okay, than I definately support anyone who wants to fight against that. ultimately, the most important thing we can do, is survive, and help others to survive, but you gotta use your best judgement, and determine of someone is a threat to the survival of others, and deal with them properly. in war, dealing with people like that means killing them, because there are a bunch of people like them united together like an angry mob, ready to do horrible things until we are forced to react somehow. but I understand why people don't want to join the army, killing another person will always be a hard thing to do, no matter who they are, but I imagine you get desensitized after a little bit...



Rockman	May 18 2009, 03:35 PM Post #8
hoighty-toighty Posts: 11,070 Group: Guardian Member #48 Joined: December 17, 2004 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Firefox, when it isn't crashing.	Quote: What I mean is, do you think that what the army asks you to do is right? This isn't about Iraq, Iran, Vietnam, Korea, WW1 or WW2. Or any war. Do you think, that in the name of your country, in the "name" of peace, that you'd kill? COULD you kill? Yes. People join the army knowing they are going to kill. When you join the military in the United States you are asked a simple question. Are you a conscientious objector? If so, they won't make you go to war unless you were drafted. Where it becomes a problem is when peoples moral beliefs come into play on top of them making the decision to go to war. Religion preaches not to kill others, yet they go to war. In my eyes there is no excuse to killing another person if what you believe is that it is wrong. There are plenty of reasons to kill someone when the opportunity presents itself. I know that if someone broke into my house this very second with a gun, I wouldn't hesitate to run to my nearest weapon and use it on that person and then call the police. Besides the fact that it is not against the law to kill another person when there is a clear and present danger to your life, in the state of Texas. I tend to not feel much when it comes to doing what needs to be done to keep myself alive. I wouldn't feel anything after killing someone. The main reason I won't join the army is that if I did i'd blast anyone I saw who stood in the way of my mission and not feel any remorse for it. I'd kill because in the army, there isn't anything telling me I shouldn't. I'm not doing it to protect your freedom. I'm doing it because its a job, because if I don't shoot first, they will. As for the whole, "we are doing this to protect your freedom bullcrap," no. There are things that every military does that isn't for the pursuit of freedom. The whole freedom bit is their way of making you feel bad for not being patriotic and at the same time giving them a false reason to continue their duty. The world wars presented a clear and present danger to all countries. Al queda, Vietnam, and Korea did and do not.
	JAke is a copyright of Spazo and Pickle Flavored Fudge Pops inc.


* -Zero-	May 18 2009, 07:57 PM Post #9
Black Knight Posts: 8,697 Group: Retired Staff Member #1,874 Joined: November 5, 2006 Favourite Anime Code Geass, Death Note, Dragonball/Z	I would never join the army, because it would go against my believes of hating violence. However if I was to go back in time before WW2 started to kill one person Hitler. I would kill him no doubt, why as I said I know I'd be saving millions of lives. I would be committing the lesser of two evils
	Thanks to Kid Buu for the sig! The story where DBZF Members are the characters! DBZF:The Unknown Conspiracy POSITIVE ZERO PRODUCTIONS ZeroGuild Forum!


SSJVegito	May 20 2009, 06:03 AM Post #10
Ally to good. Nightmare to you. Posts: 436 Group: Member Member #3,979 Joined: February 11, 2009 Favourite Anime Neon Genesis Evangelion. Dragonball Z. Rurouni Kenshin. What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Neon Genesis Evangelion. Dragonball/Z. FMA.	I don't think it's right but at the same time I don't think there can ever be 'peace' without war. Someone will always screw it up somehow or another. Then again after a war, and 'peace' is declared, is it really peace? It's human nature to fight and there's nothing anyone, anywhere, can do about it.



Finta646	May 20 2009, 10:23 PM Post #11
Posts: 441 Group: Member Member #3,954 Joined: February 2, 2009 Favourite Anime Sailor Moon, DBZ, InuYasha, Shana What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer & Firefox Favourite Manga n/a	I would never be able to join the army and go through the whole "kill or be killed" thing, I just don't see myself ever being able to take another persons life, I don't feel that its my right to do that, or my countries right to even ask me to do it. The saddest part about war is that it will never end, its always been there, even Socrates predicted it and to get people to fight in the war, the army is going to say things like "its the pride of the country" and all that, but its up to the person to believe them or not. Edited by Finta646, May 20 2009, 10:24 PM.
	Ch3RRy BlOsS0m FeStIvAl 09 BrKlYn BoTaNiCaL GaRd3nS


Fused	May 24 2009, 07:04 AM Post #12
Posts: 460 Group: Donator Member #4,028 Joined: March 14, 2009 Favourite Anime Dragonball Z, forever and always. What Browser do you use? Chrome	Joker Snake May 17 2009, 10:28 PM I'm going too keep this short, I forget where but I saw something that said "Bombing for peace is the same as having sex for virginity" I think that statement makes pretty clear what I think about wars and killing for peace, completely contradictory Quote for truth. That is all.



Temphis	May 24 2009, 01:07 PM Post #13
Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory! Posts: 1,223 Group: Member Member #3,903 Joined: January 6, 2009 Gender Male Favourite Anime Ghost in the Shell: S.A.C., Katananagari, Mushishi, Full Metal: Brotherhood, CowboyBeebop, Monster What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Gantz, Berserk, One Punch Man, Dragon Ball, One Piece, Attack on Titan, Re: Monster, (no more room)	well, I feel death is a just consequence for certain actions, and I'm a christian, but thats what makes war hard. it's like your judging everyone on the enemy side as worthy of death, even though you don't know them personally, and they most likely have a family they want to go home too, and maybe arn't even fully aware of what all the causes for the war are, or whatever, but they are trying to kill you.....thats a pretty good reason to pick up a gun and defend yourself, no matter what you believe, cause they won't stop at killing you, they will kill until the conflict is over, until there is no more opposition to their cause, and if their cause is to oppress us, or kill all of your people, than why would I not want to defend everyone from that? thats how I look at it. I guess in a way, going to war is a selfless act, where you just may be giving your life, to protect everyone who isn't going to war in your country from whatever it is the opposition is trying to do. unfortunately, the army is imperfect and will make mistakes, and sometimes dosn't go to war to fix conflict, and or creates conflict by accident, so you gotta choose, "dog of the military" or "free thinker who wants to end a conflict", I guess. I don't think it's wrong to kill another person if there is no other solution to saving your own life, unless they don't deserve to die, like, if they are persuing you because you've commited crimes, and you kill them, yeah thats way bad, but if your persuing someone who's commited crimes and they try to kill you, it's totally okay to kill them in self defense. thats just how I feel though.



+ Green	May 24 2009, 02:36 PM Post #14
Flashy Thing! Posts: 5,436 Group: Legend Member #1,181 Joined: February 25, 2006 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Fire fox Favourite Manga Gantz	Byakko May 17 2009, 10:25 PM Well, I was talking to some American guy on Omeagle. He'd been in the army, been to Iraq. Killed. This, obviously, led to questions. Also led to a sorta debate. I said "I'm too lazy for the army, it changes people" "It's your duty though" "It's not my duty to take another's right to live, I'll leave that to somebody who can pull the trigger when the time came." "It's a duty, giving back to the country that gave you everything." What I mean is, do you think that what the army asks you to do is right? This isn't about Iraq, Iran, Vietnam, Korea, WW1 or WW2. Or any war. Do you think, that in the name of your country, in the "name" of peace, that you'd kill? COULD you kill? I know, or at least I'm positive (having never been in a situation where I could take another's life), that I could kill. "Killing isn't as simple as the innocent believe." I think this statement is true. I doubt that, given sacrificing my own life, or sacrificing another's, I'd sacrifice my own. I think the military is some what ok. The army to me is similar to police. They can either wait for something to happen or they can go out and prevent something from happening. What the U.S army is doing now is preventing something from happening. Yea mistakes are being made but that's unavoidable. What kotetsu said about when your in the army your killing because it's your job, i think that is how many soldiers are thinking. They may say they are fighting for the country and fighting for peace but if you ask them how killing supports this idea of helping the country they may not be able to give you an acceptable answer. Killing may also have to do with the fear of being killed, you kill first so that you in turn aren't killed. So if i was in iraq(i don't know how or why i would end up there) fighting for "peace" then i believe that i would kill, yet i believe wounding the enemy should be the primary objective not killing them. The U.S is leaning toward wounding over killing already considering they have the M16 as a standard rifle.
	Don't you ever worry that you're on the Devil's side without even knowing it? - DCI John Luther Black power ranger; I do not belong... B.o.B - Mr. Mister


* -Zero-	May 24 2009, 07:03 PM Post #15
Black Knight Posts: 8,697 Group: Retired Staff Member #1,874 Joined: November 5, 2006 Favourite Anime Code Geass, Death Note, Dragonball/Z	Quote: well, I feel death is a just consequence for certain actions No just no, please don't say that, that's a pretty damn bad statement. So when a baby dies, what did he do wrong? No I completely DISAGREE with that statement. And I'm sorry I don't care what religion anyone is, that statement to me should always be a big no, there is another reason why I dislike religion
	Thanks to Kid Buu for the sig! The story where DBZF Members are the characters! DBZF:The Unknown Conspiracy POSITIVE ZERO PRODUCTIONS ZeroGuild Forum!


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