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| Tweet Topic Started: May 11 2009, 12:22 AM (1,179 Views) | |
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May 11 2009, 10:34 PM Post #16 |
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Wow, you basically just said the same thing I did. I agree with you entirely, 100%. Sounds like you and I have some pretty similar thoughts on this. Common sense and logic triumphs over this nonsense. The sad thing is, I've been to church, and if you even begin to state your opinion on this... Well, yeah right. That's not going to happen. It's like talking to a bunch of 10 year old's with their ears plugged up singing in the midst of ignoring the truth they simply can't do anything with but deny, and for humorous "reasons" to top it off. They're so caught up in their belief that the mere belief alone is a reason in itself to reject any and all other logical reasoning. Upbringing determines all of this. If religion wasn't a means of brainwashing youth, do you think a modern day full grown human being who had never heard of religion would accept and believe this bull *****? For the sake of intellectual pursuits and the advancement of the human race, religion is a setback. |
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| Trickster | May 12 2009, 07:40 AM Post #17 |
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Ninja
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In my opinion, Religion is one of the biggest cults out there. Like joker said, If god were real, why would he want you to go to a building and sit down and sing, all for his name. He wouldn't. People join a church, and get pressured into bringing more people, or else they bring people so that everyone believes they are a better person, to me that is a cult. And just like any other cult, many people have died in the name of religion. |
 A true worrior becomes a legend A true saiyan becomes a GOD | |
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May 12 2009, 08:06 AM Post #18 |
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Good point, Josh. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. How ironic. Kotetsu, I watched the video you linked yesterday. It was quite interesting. Everybody should see it. If instinct dominates our reasoning, we're just animals. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDp7pkEcJVQ&feature=channel_page |
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| Temphis | May 12 2009, 12:43 PM Post #19 |
Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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If people have seen my other comments on deep religious discussion, than you know how I feel on this subject, but I can see the majority of people that have posted here currently feel differently than me, so I'm not gonna try and prove I'm right, but I will say, it would seem no one has found much good in christianity, based on what you've shared concerning your views. Beliefs, or how people feel concerning life, and the world around them, can only be gained through personal experience. I am sorry to say, that the majority of the Christian world, do not truly believe in what they "claim" to, since their actions, in many cases, show no merit towards what they read and listen to from their sources of christian liturature, so it is easy from the outside, to state, "all christians are hypocritacal" or "Christians don't really belief in god, church is merely a social club" or other such statements. this is not always the case however and to say such a thing would be not only judgemental, but would also be false. Let me discuss what belief is for a moment. Belief, consists of what someones personal views are regarding truthfullness or the reality of their surroundings based on their experiences. therefor, if someone is "Truly" christian, they are so because they have experienced something that caused them to belief in god. likewise, Atheists believe what they do because their experiences tell them their is no god. this is why I have said, "The Majority of the Christian world do not believe what they claim to", most of them lack any real experience to donote some sort of belief in a supernatural being that is all powerful and all knowing. many lack the experience of reading the scriptures, despite they are told to read them as a part of their belief. many do no such thing they are commanded in the scriptures, so how on earth, can they say "I believe in god", when they have done nothing and experienced nothing? they really can't, it would be a lie for them to say so.....but only if their other experiences led them to belief there wasn't a god. if they weren't close minded, they would do more to find out if going to church on sunday merrited a reward, but that dosn't mean they would become athiest, though I would blame them if they did. like wise, atheists seem to me, quick to point out the flaws of other beliefs, yet don't tend to use critical thinking to determine of "Athiesim" is a productive belief system. Christians, even in their most pitiful form, still belief that doing good things merrits rewards, still belief their are eternal consequences to their actions, and are striving to emulate a man who led a "perfect life", so when people point out a christians flaws, that is pointing out the flaws of individuals, not the belief system. if someone wants to know if "god" is real, and then if he is really "perfect" or any of these things people say he is, than they need to test it out so they can gain personal experience concerning the subject. I myself, am a critical thinker, I have heard and listened to every religious belief presented to me, and have even experimented on the challanges given to me when I have desired to know if they were really true, and my experience tells me there is a god, and even that he lives in a perfected and immortal body of flesh and bones, somewhere out in the vastness of space, and that he is all knowing, and is the source of all rewards that we recieve spiritually, of which I have received many. I will not begin to share some of my experiences, but I will say, you can gain your own if you want, but you have to want it and be willing to act on it, or else you yourself are close minded. if you want to know if god is real, than try asking him, since if he is real, and all powerful, he should be able to answer you right? I will tell you how he answers me when I talk to him, I can feel him, like a stirring of pleasent emotions in throughout my body. it's a very specific feeling that has direct effects on me whenever I feel it, so it's distinctive and based on my experience, I know it's god. I've had miracles since then happen to me, that have proven to me that he lives, so know, I cannot say I "believe" in god, but am constrained to say "I know" there is a god. I have met many such other christians in my lifetime, that have had their own experiences denoting the truthfullness of a living god, but the majority of christians unfortunately cannot say "I know there is a god", and mean it. the same way they can't go to church for any other reason than to have a pastor tell them what to belief. Religion in itself, is a tool built for some of us, the "robots of society" who are programed to go to church, so that they feel better about themselves, cause they "belong" there. many pastors are corrupt, and maybe they didn't start out as a corrupt pastor, but money consumed their heart with greed, and when they stopped preaching from their heart, their church became a buisness. sadly, this is often the case, which is why I would invite anyone going to churches to find out if their true, save yourself some time and avoid pastors who are paid for their ministry, they often don't practice what they preach, and it's a false institution and a buisness. there are churches that are completely service based though, like the LDS church (Latter Day Saints) that don't fall into that description. Either way, whatever you do, don't try to convert people unless you truley believe it would help them. most christians, are better off as robots of society, than hopeless wanderers with no sense of belonging, for christians who loss their faith often are worse off without it, even if their beliefs had little to no foundation. by the way, there are atheists that are robots of society too. Edited by Temphis, May 12 2009, 12:44 PM.
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| Rockman | May 12 2009, 02:17 PM Post #20 |
hoighty-toighty
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That's right Temphis. And to all of you atheists, don't become a robot. As soon as I get out of this crappy town i'm in and start making some money, I plan on doing things for my community and giving money to charities. I want to do these things not because someone told me I should, no reward, but because it will give me gratification knowing that I made some sort of difference in other peoples lives. Otherwise I feel useless until the day I die. There's no excuse for any person, religious or nonreligious, to not help others. I came to the middle of my University the other day, and saw a guy I know who is hardcore christian. Just standing there with his guitar that he uses to sing jesus. To my left, was a woman having some extreme difficulties keeping here jewelry selling tent from flying away in the horrible wind we had that day. It literally could have wound up on a roof somewhere. I quickly helped her, and helped her until everything she need to do was set up for her to make her sales. She tried to reward me with a discount or a ring or something, even placed a 20$ in my hand. Told me I deserved it. I declined and said I don't accept rewards. All in the while, the guy I know, standing there with his guitar and goofy look on his face. Doing not a single thing. And he preaches Christian brotherhood, and that Jesus wanted us to help others and be good people. A hypocrite in my mind. Education was the driving force behind me becoming an atheist Temphis. Everything I have learned in university since 2004 has reinforced everything I am today. You are correct when you consider experiences as the driving force behind theism and atheism. I sat in church every sunday until 2003. I know what it's like to believe, and it drives me to disbelief. However you speak about spiritual experiences as if they hold some sort of greater meaning to the life we live in. If you want true understanding of why your life doesn't take a turn to the meth lab and then the jail, it's not because god is looking out for you, it's because you are making the right choices. Ultimately, from what I see from life, If you make the right choices and understand the idea of cause and effect, you will never falter. Spiritual experiences and the idea that god has a plan for your life doesn't take into effect those who don't believe. The Bible AND the book of Mormon state that God turns a blind eye on those who do not believe and does so until they repent and believe again. But as I have tried to stay away from in the past, I'd rather not talk about CLDS. I don't think I have enough time to sit here and come up with paragraphs that match your level Temphis. lol My life is living proof that you do not need a God to be a good person, and live a good life. People don't understand that and they blame their problems on the fact that they didn't believe in God. It's super aggravating for me to see people make that excuse about life. On a side note, I see Christians and people of other religions doing good things. I commend them for doing what exactly religion is about. Most people are raised to just go to church every sunday, and preach like they have done something good in their life for others. Those people kind of disgust me. |
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| * -Zero- | May 12 2009, 05:26 PM Post #21 |
Black Knight
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A few things to point out to Temphis, as I said I got nothing against people believing on what they want. I just hate the people that try to convert me yet they do some many things that goes against their bible. I find the bible ridiculous same way many religious people find the idea of evolution to be ridiculous. Also my major point. If someone is only doing good things because they believe in god and they want to be in heaven and etc... Then to me that person's is not a great person at all, that person is only doing the good things for their own selfish reasons. Meanwhile there are those people that do not believe in any sort of gods, and do a lot of good things to help others, bot because they believe they are going to get compensated for, but because they do it, because they simply want to help others. There are atheists there are a-holes same way there are Christians that are a-holes. Simply saying one side does more good than the other is completely not true. Basically Atheists just live by their own rules. And demonstrate who they really are, while religious people try to be who they are told to be. |
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| * brit :) | May 13 2009, 03:19 AM Post #22 |
boomboompow.
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It seems to me that people that don't tie themselves to any religion are less likely to commit wrong in the world. I consider many Christians to be really hypocritical and judgmental of people. My best friend is homosexual. Therefore he doesn't believe in what the bible says. However, his family is still bent on trying to keep Christianity installed in him. I agree with him completely. You shouldn't believe in someone that doesn't even accept who YOU are. It seems like this book is literally made to brainwash you in becoming something that you aren't. And that's why there's so many fights in the world in the first place. Over something simple like religion. I'm agnostic. My family is strictly Baptist. And honestly, I really don't think my mo would accept me if she found out I'm agnostic. Then again it's my choice, and people need to learn that you CAN'T force your beliefs upon someone, no matter how much you believe in it. It's not fair for the other person. |
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dART chaleureuse. chic. createuse. douce. leave me something nice. | |
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| Temphis | May 15 2009, 12:15 AM Post #23 |
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Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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your all exactly right. I feel it's better to do good, and not feel obligated too, than to know what good things you can do and should, and choose not to do them. in this aspect, I'd say the majority of athiests may be in better standing with god than the mainstreams of christians in our society. a funny irony really. people who don't believe they are constrained to do good, often do more good, than those who feel they must. I'm sorry if I made it sound like christians believe only christian people can recieve merits for good works, or if it sounded like I said people who don't believe don't recieve, because they do, sometimes more than believers, but it's based on thier accountability and personal experience. I believe god is not a selector of persons, and understands each person and their unique experiences and knowledge, therefor, those who are not accountable for there actions are not only innocent before god, but are in better standing than those who believe in him and choose to disobey. as far as, christians who try to convert others, conversion is a personal thing, and any christian who is caught trying to convert someone to their beliefs not only is un-christ-like, but dumb, and I am tempted to laugh aloud and walk away when people try to convert me. thats the sad thing really, despite the fact that I'm a christian, other "Christian's" will often tell me that I'm not, and that I don't believe in Jesus, simply becuase I believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of god, and the bible to be the word of god only so far as it's translated correctly....it's like they don't even know what "christian" means or something, that really irks me. I don't blame anyone for being athiest, the christian world overall is contradictory, even to itself among certain denominations, and yet the very definition of "Truth" is something that doesn't change, that can be known and understood. if it can't be understood, than how can it be true? ironically I have told that to many christians concerning certain view about the godhead, like the trinity, which states "god is uknowable, undefinable, a entity, without passions, or a specific form"...how? if that were true, it would mean the universe was "organized" by a "disorganized" entity which would mean perfection cannot exist, which would make it really hard to believe that christ actually lived a perfect life.... yeah. I don't understand alot of other christians views, and I've heard it all before and done the math, most of it just don't work, but I have found what does for me, which is how I am still christian and a deep thinker. yeah, so anyway, if a christian tries to convert you, you can either say, "I'm not interested right now" and walk away, or if you want to get the person off your back, in the act that you see them often or something, you can say "christ taught people by inviting them to do stuff, so unless you are inviting me to do something, I would apreciate it if you stopped being unchrist-like and changed the subject, since your not going to change me." that should make them stop lol. Edited by Temphis, May 15 2009, 12:19 AM.
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| * -Zero- | May 17 2009, 07:36 AM Post #24 |
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Black Knight
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Temphis you are one of the few Christians have known (in a manner of speaking seeing how I don't know you personally lol) that actually has an open mind and understands thinking of those that aren't Christians, I don't think I've met anyone like that either. Well I'm actually not trying to be sexist or anything with my next comment, but it seems that I've only had to deal with guys when it comes to being close minded about religion, there hasn't been any girl that has given me trouble over it. I'm sure there are girls out there that would give me trouble over it, but none that I have met yet. And as you say everyone has their reasons to believe in what they believe. I've said it many times before I understand why people believe it, I know why people believe it, the choice is the persons. Only thing that annoys me is those that try to convert me. I find religion to be good and bad at the same time. To some people who have lived tragedy and believe in a god and heaven it has saved them from killing themselves(I know one personally) that's the good I see in it, the bad is that it has killed many people over lifetime. |
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| + Byakko | May 21 2009, 06:48 PM Post #25 |
I once gave a Kangaroo a heart-attack just by staring at it
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I used to ask myself who or what God was. I'd spend a lot of time asking myself that. Until I was about 8 the idea that there was no God - even the belief in nothing, the belief in science - had not crossed my mind. It was about then I started thinking "Why are so many people putting 'faith' in something they can't prove is real?" I can prove bread is real, by making it. I can prove that my computer is real, I'm typing on it, I can prove I'm listening to music, because I could play it to you. Can I prove that God exists? No. Can I prove he doesn't exist? No, but there's a lot of evidence to suggest that there isn't a God. This next sentence makes me feel a little "high-and-mighty" or "full of myself" but I'll say it anyway: "If I can't prove God exists, then how can you?" not to say that if I can't do it, nobody can. But I have the same amount of evidence as anybody else on this forum, the same amount of evidence as any other average joe in the world. I watched a documentary on Mary Magdeline the other day. In the bible, Mary is mentioned by name at least 15 times. Almost every time she is mentioned, it is with conflicting views: Peter hated her and made her seem full of sin, Mark (Or Luke, can't remember) saw her superior to Peter. In the story where Jesus is cleansing people of Sins, her's are (as written in the bible, and various other Church texts) the 7 Deadly Sins: Lust, Envy, Greed, Sloth, Pride, Wrath and Gluttony. Then, 500 years or so after the "first edition" (Lol) of the bible, the Pope decided he didn't like her, and changed her, deeming her a prostitute. The church was divided into those who supported Peter, and those who supported Magdeline. If the church couldn't agree on their "speciality", those who are supposedly closer to God than any others, not agree? Of course, how could the Christian Church back a woman? How could the let a woman be the patriarch of Christianity? So the bible was edited, Peter became Jesus' right-hand and closest and favourite follower. How can we be so blind as to follow something that has become so twisted and distorted? We can't. If 100 people sitting with me said they believed in God, how many do you think haven't ever doubted their faith? Ever, as in not once. Ever as in they accept everything the bible says, totally and without question. I'd put the number at a nice, fat, round 0. If somebody wants to believe, I'll let them, so long as they don't try to change how I think. A Mormon comes to my door, seeking to convert me, the door can hit him/her in the face. A Jew comes to my door, seeking to convert me, the door can hit them in the face. A Christian comes to my door, seeking to convert me, the door can hit him on the nose for all I care. God comes to my door and says "Mike, I am here, I prove myself unto you, will you accept me. Believe in me, as most of Earth does?" I'd challenge him, I'd say "Why you, who are higher than any, come to my door. I, who do not believe. Why are you, who let his son die for the crimes of humanity, You, who have let millions be slaughtered in your name, You, who have killed and will kill my brothers, my sisters, my sons and my daughters, claim right to rule me? Right to have my worship?" (Man, I'm poetic  )
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GFX Portfolio Tumblr DeviantArt  Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'" | |
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| Finta646 | May 21 2009, 09:02 PM Post #26 |
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I have never had someone come to my door to convert me to Christianity, Ive only had Jehovah Witnesses tell me I'm going to burn in Hell for watching TV. My family is all said to be Roman Catholic, but in reality, they're not, they are really a branch of Christianity that no one really knows too much about and that I wont mention because of all the horrible accusations Ive heard from Christians and non Christians about it. I cannot say that I am 100% of any religion, but I cant say I'm atheist either. I believe that there is a leading God out there, but there are other Gods and spirits as well. I also believe that people can be reincarnated. I do not follow the bible, Ive never had one, or read one before, but I try to be a good person as best as I can be, I dont think it matters what religion someone is, or if they have one or not. --When I have time, Im going to look at Kotetsus video, it seems interesting. |
   Ch3RRy BlOsS0m FeStIvAl 09 ** BrKlYn BoTaNiCaL GaRd3nS** | |
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| Rockman | May 23 2009, 12:53 PM Post #27 |
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hoighty-toighty
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LOL don't get me started on the Jehovahs. They are by far the biggest joke, and easiest religion to dog since Mormons. Again, lol. |
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| Fused | May 23 2009, 04:27 PM Post #28 |
 
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Having only read a few posts so far in this topic and because I'm in a lazy mood I won't write my thoughts in their entirety in here because they've probably been voiced already by several others. I'm just going to say that I think all religions are idiotic and based off of hardly anything other than a desperate hope that there is something else out there and a reason for our existance. |
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| Temphis | May 24 2009, 03:20 AM Post #29 |
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Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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ya know, if anything, thats what any good random church is made for, "hope", even if it's wrong, but it's good to have that hope that theres somehow, some sort of eternal existance, even if ya don't really believe in it. oh, and as for mormons, they arn't supposed to convert people, we are taught against it, conversion is personal, so if someone is trying to convert you, assume they arn't mormon, and if they are, tell them to repent lol. well, thanks for commenting on my open mindedness, I try  sorry to hear you havn't met more open minded christians, they can be the worst kind of poeple when they arn't open minded.
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| Rockman | May 24 2009, 04:36 AM Post #30 |
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hoighty-toighty
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Speaking of the whole hope notion, I feel the people that need hope are the hopeless and uneducated. A good example someone gave me once, is of third-world countires. If you take away hope from what seems hopeless, what else do these people have? That's why I think, and I'm almost certain that Atheism is for the well educated and those who find they do not need a God to exist, or something look forward to after death. I'm starting to realize that there are two types of people in this world. People who need a god, and people who don't. I was talking this one christian the other day, who had lost his way and turned to atheism because he questioned why god put him with such abusive parents. He turned himself back to the church and baptised himself with the church in 2003. He is 24 today, and is working on his masters in Theology and Philosophy. I asked him if he thought all atheists disbelieved because of some random mishap that made them question god. He admitted that not all people turn to atheism because of his same reason. My question to theists at this point, if people can turn around on a dime from atheism like that, why doesn't it happen more often? And if it's god's will to allow you to understand his path, then why aren't I running to the nearest church tomorrow? It seems he suddenly had some kind of revelation. But I blame it on the fact that the guy doesn't have all of his faculties in the first place. He's a little odd, and it would be an understatement to say he probably has some type of mental disorder, though he's a genius in my mind. |
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