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| What would you do... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 13 2009, 03:44 AM (1,836 Views) | |
| Meowth | Feb 18 2009, 06:46 PM Post #31 |
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If you're born with a brain, why do you refuse to use it? You're just taking advantage of evolution for your own selfish needs to be stupid. You represent everything wrong with humanity, which although your arguments are bad, it does give the forum an insight to what the average person thinks and how judgemental people are which is why people avoid treatment for anything, not just on this issue, many others I imagin. That fact that you are making the assumption that ALL transgenders are male shows how daft you are, there are women who become men because that's what they feel they want to be. There are also hemprodites, do you think it makes them comfertable to walk around with both parts? Maybe they don't want a dick? It's not taking advantage of medical technology if it's a recognised mental illness. Though I imagin you representing our average moron doesn't believe that mental illnesses exist and people just make these things up for sympathy. |
 
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| * Psyam | Feb 18 2009, 07:04 PM Post #32 |
 
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Thank you for sharing this. I was not aware that it can be a medical condition. For the record, I was just using homosexuals as an example of not treating people differently because of who/what they are. And I did learn something, thanks.  |
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Feb 18 2009, 07:05 PM Post #33 |
 
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where did I say that? For you're curiousity a girl I know of actually is changing her gender to a man. She is almost 30, I don't think there was any diagnosed medical reason... she just decided to change gender. In my opinion... she are abusing medical technology for her wants. I don't see another way around that. I have a brain and I use it. By doing so I think it is morally selfish to have a doctor waste his trade on somebody with or without a mental illness whom wants to change gender because they are depressed and trapped in the opposite gender. I believe we need to keep our focus to save and cure the cancers and AIDS of the world *knock on wood for mentionning and wish nobody ever gets them* We have the school of hard knocks for those type of people whom are "trapped" in another gender. Edited by Kudo, Feb 18 2009, 07:07 PM.
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| Meowth | Feb 18 2009, 07:20 PM Post #34 |
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I wasn't a while back but I remember seeing a topic on a simler subject to this once, which is why I looked it up. I don't know how disputed it is as a medical condition, I know there are a number of mental illnesses that people argue about if they are true or not since they don't show any physical symptoms.
I'm asuming you know that women don't have dicks, you said dicks being chopped off, you said nothing about having breasts removed.
If she isn't suffering from anything, then you could argue that she is, but then it's not calssed as a medical surgary, a qualified plastic surgion would preform the opperation, they probably do the medical sex changes as well.
Wink wink, nudge nudge.
A doctors job is to treat people and help to preserve life, by not treating someone who is depressed because they don't like themselfs, you are putting them at risk, not from others but from themselfs. What you are saying is that it is a bad thing that mental illnesses are treated.
Because surgians are qualified in that area of medician! I think you need to learn a little more, research is not done by a surgian, it is done by scientists, these scientists don't go and change peoples genders, they develop drugs for illnesses including AIDS and Cancer as you pointed out. No doctor specialises in every feild, a nurologist for example isn't going to go diagnoise and treat breast cancer as a GP isn't going to do a liver transplant. I thought you said you used your brain, you haven't donated it to a gynecologist have you?
Are you living in that past or something? Get with the times, "school of hard knocks" is not a treatment, infact it sounds usless, what would you gain from it? What does it consist of? Making fun of how someone feels till they change or commit suicide? |
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Feb 18 2009, 07:29 PM Post #35 |
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Because I was obviously using a man as a very brief example.
Well I don't like talking about cancers but aren't there alot of surgeons qualified in eliminating cancer? apart from Kimo there's always surgery to remove it.. anyways.
Exactly, you took the words out of my mouth. This is useless plastic surgery, which is also another wasted peice of technology. People want to change genders because they want to.. people want bigger breast because they want to. Aren't there people who actually NEED plastic surgery!? these people who WANT it are just wasting the surgeons time too! I have a brain once again,though I'm not as liberal on my opinions as you are.
yes. The 50's were the happy wonder years. better times then huh ![:=]:](http://b1.ifrm.com/1500/25/0/e1137/e1137.gif) 
Edited by Kudo, Feb 18 2009, 07:30 PM.
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| Temphis | Feb 18 2009, 07:38 PM Post #36 |
Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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Dr. Foreman proves many good points that I completely agree with. I forgot that it was a medical illness as well until he said somthing, so yeah, now that I think about it, I have no idea how I would act around a transgendered person. I know that their are certain specific things that can help you communicate better with Narcisistic people, or other behavioral related mental illnesses, but I don't know about this one. I think I would treat them like anyone else, but I would "refer" to them as the status they desired to be called by, since being called by their original gender, or being treated as if they are still their original gender, would most likely make them very uncomfortable. I don't think I would want to be around a transgendered person for an extended period of time, since they technicaly may have a mental illness, and I've been around people with mental illnesses before, for extended periods of time, and it's not very fun. |
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| Meowth | Feb 18 2009, 07:48 PM Post #37 |
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It's not about opinions when someones mental health is at stake, by denying someone who is suffering from an illness treatment then you are just going to end up hurting them more. People who do suffer need the surgery, it's not a want. Could you imagin living your life not sure if something is wrong with you? Confused about what you're thinking? Or even hating yourself? Are you saying these people don't need treatment?
Personally, I don't think any of them would want you to act diffrently round them and would just want to be treated like anyone else. I'm sure for a number of transgenders, it's not too noticable, depends how early it is treated and everything.
It's a little odd in comparison to other mental illnesses, probably best compared to ones such as alien limb syndrom, if I've gotten that name right. The one where you don't think a part of you is actually a part of you, it's more the illnesses that affects who you are as oppose to how you act.
I live with people who have mental illnesses, they are family, so I've grown up with it. The gender one as I say isn't really the same as personality disorders, well I don't think so anyway. If you didn't know someone was transgender, then you might not notice. |
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| Rockman | Feb 18 2009, 08:59 PM Post #38 |
hoighty-toighty
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You are still born with it. You are born with all your medical illnesses when it comes to the brain. There isn't much in the way of changing the way you think hormonally. You are born with the way your hormones react to certain variances of everyday nature. Dormant illness is also a fact. Schizophrenia is a mental illness people are born with. It doesn't usually affect them until they are in their twenties. It only makes sense that people will recognize their sexual needs by the time they hit puberty and their Hypothalamus begins speaking for them. In this case, it's a hormone imbalance, not necessarily an illness. Just about everyone has some sort of Hormone imbalance. And to be perfectly honest, what is balanced? It's not a mental illness, it's a hormone imbalance. There's a huge difference. Also when you speak of them like,
You're making them sound like they need help and are clinically insane. They aren't. They do everything just like you and I except they like the same sex, and decided to take it a step further. There really isn't anything insane about that. |
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| Meowth | Feb 18 2009, 09:15 PM Post #39 |
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Not always, some illnesses can be triggered by enviromental factors, maybe a person is suseptable to them in the first place but I would say that there are a number that are enviromental. Like post traumatic stress, a form of depression, muliple personalities can be enviromental, there's no reason why a gender disorder can't be enviromental. I'll grant you that in some cases an event might trigger the inbalance but it's still enviromental.
So a chemical imbalance means that depression is not a mental illness either? If it affects the brain, it's a mental illness, a hormone imbalance is just a cause. Like a lack of cerotonin I believe it is, is the cause for depression or a form of.
I'm not saying they are clinically insane but it is something that requires treatment becasue it can lead the other serious things. Transgender is not the same as homosexuality, this topic is about people who change their gender not about people who like the same gender, unless my dyslexia is getting the better of me. Did you miss the link I posted about Gender Dysphoria? Here it is again http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx?url=Pages/What-is-it.aspx
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| Rockman | Feb 18 2009, 09:30 PM Post #40 |
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hoighty-toighty
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I'll agree with you here on the terms that it's mostly subjective to the condition indicated.
Mental Illness: any disease of the mind; the psychological state of someone who has emotional or behavioral problems serious enough to require psychiatric This is where psychology becomes a term battle. What is crazy, and what isn't. Very subjective text as well. You're right and wrong depending on the argument at hand.
Yeah I saw your link. I used your text out of context on accident. I meant to be replying to Kudo. But the thing about being Transgendered, you are also either confused about which gender to love, or know exactly which one to love. Take for example this women who has had a child, who also is legally a man. She is married to a woman. Hence homosexual. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5302756&page=1 |
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| Meowth | Feb 18 2009, 09:42 PM Post #41 |
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Gender dysphoria is diagnosed by a physciatrist, making it a mental illness by that definition I believe, treatment ranging from just acting as the opposit gender or taking it further to becoming, which ever is more comfertable to the patiant. From what I understand anyway, so that would be classed as behavoural.
Are you talking about before treatment or after? Because I can understand before, if you are unsure what gender you are then you are going to be unsure of what gender you are attracted to. Also I think I heard about that, I wouldn't say that the person is homosexual, if they are legally a man, feel like a man inside and act like a man, then they are male, it's not a homosexual relationship. Even if he still has female organs from the operation, that's not to say he can't be called a man, some might see it as rude to call them by their original gender, I certain don't see it as polite or even neceserry. |
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| Pookie | Feb 18 2009, 09:48 PM Post #42 |
Pookie Powa!
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I think Kudo's arguments are what some people believe today. There are those who would agree with him. Is it wrong? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, I don't like that money is spent more on plastic surgery for those type of people than medical conditions such as cancer and Aids. Those are epidemics that need to be taken care of. Trans gender is not as accepted as homosexuality. By educating the public we can improve the conditions for them. Conversely, education will not be enough to make a social norm. Trans gender will never be accepted as normal because it is difficult for most to understand why someone would want to change genders. Try explaining to a young boy or girl why one would be willing to go under extreme measures to change their gender. There were some people in this topic that did not know how to approach a transgendered person, which is what causes conflict. Edited by Pookie, Feb 18 2009, 09:52 PM.
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| Rockman | Feb 18 2009, 10:25 PM Post #43 |
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hoighty-toighty
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No it's not wrong to have an opinion. And opinions aren't wrong. But they can be or sound ignorant. Just to blurt something out without thinking about it, or even reading discussion about it is probably the worst thing you can do in any debate. And to be quite honest, it is an ignorant opinion. Biased and rude as well.
The thing about the medical community, is each doctor has a special talent. They are experts in certain fields. Cancer and aids has little to do with plastic surgery, and is even clinically organized, and funded differently. Plastic surgery ranges from necessity to personal gain. There are funds organized for both, just like there are fund organized for aids and cancer. The money isn't the same. In fact, Everyone who wants plastic surgery can get it because it exists. People pay thousands for this, and that is their right. Also prove that more money is spent on Plastic Surgery per year than aids and cancer. I guarantee you that's wrong.
According to whom?
You'd have to start in the churches first. |
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| * Mitas | Feb 18 2009, 10:48 PM Post #44 |
It truly was a Shawshank redemption
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I didn't think that it had been proven whether the causes of Transgender were biological or psychological. Depending on the cause then there are different ways to go about treating it. If it's psychological then shouldn't they be 'cured' of the illness. When somebody is Depressed, Schizophrenic etc then they are treated in order to remove the illness. However if it is biological then surgery is the right treatment. If you're born with a leg that doesn't work properly then you're given a prostetic leg (I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong) or at least a wheelchair. And also it is perfectly normal to have the attitude that Kudo has if you aren't as educated on the issue as you two clearly are. People are afraid of the unknown, and if somebody's brain/body is working outside the norm and completely different to yourself and what you are used to then it is natural to feel awkward, nervous and afraid around them and even hostile towards them. I'm not saying it's right, it's just natural. |
 "Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is." | |
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| Rockman | Feb 19 2009, 12:23 AM Post #45 |
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hoighty-toighty
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In some cases, psychological and biological are the same thing. Mental illness just doesn't happen for no reason, the reason is a malfunction with the brain, making it a biological function, and shying away from psychological classification. Let me explain further:
Psychology is there more for the understanding than it is for the cure. Most people who are evaluated psychologically are never truly cured of their indifference. Sure there maybe be medicine or injections to help focus the brain, but you will eventually go back.
Technically your right on this one. However when it comes to the topic at hand, science hasn't progressed far enough to understand which chemical makes the brain react in the manner that we are discussing. We have a theory of why though, the size of the Hypothalamus. It's a much better reason to sling around than, "they just are." Also, if any of you took the time to look at the 4 websites I posted, you'd notice that the study noted and compared heterosexuals to homosexuals AND transvestites. Making the issue almost one in the same.
Sorry Mitas, but doing so is far from "normal." It's called following the crowd. Because the majority of people clump people of different sexual practices in a derogatory manner that makes it ok to bash and be afraid of them. It is also written in the bible that people of the sort were stoned because of their practice. It's a tradition as old as time, and most definitely ignorant and fear based. You're right, it's not right. It's also naturally ignorant. This topic, and the topic of homosexuality drives me insane to no end. The shear ignorance is mind boggling. Instead of finding a reason and understanding why these people are the way they are, people point their finger and simply say it's wrong. They even mold their opinion into a derogatory statement. I don't give a ***** if these people have hooves and horns, they are still human. You aren't required to marry one, you aren't required to be friends with them, but at least understand how they feel, and why they feel the way they do, and *****ing stop being rude to them and excluding them from your religion and society. It isn't your place to tell these people what they can and can not do. Much like it isn't their place to tell all of you what you should be doing in your lives. And most especially, being derogatory towards these people is by far the lowest thing you can possibly do to a person. And whoever stood by Kudo's joke of, "I would either punch or kick them. I am the alpha male! gimme the trophy. ", you should be completely ashamed of yourself. We've already touched base that transgender is related to brain function, so what, you'd also Punch and Kick someone with Alzheimer's? What about Schizophrenia? What? You wouldn't? Then your joke isn't funny Kudo, and you should retract your statement. At the end of the day, i'll be damned if every single one of you that is reading this topic doesn't walk away having learned something about them. And I will stand by their side until the day I die. This isn't a selfish rant or crusade, this is my personal vendetta with ignorance in the raw. |
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