Are you metrospiritual?

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Are you metrospiritual?
Tweet Topic Started: Dec 14 2008, 01:52 AM (1,181 Views)
+ Byakko	Dec 20 2008, 01:03 AM Post #16
I once gave a Kangaroo a heart-attack just by staring at it Posts: 10,219 Group: Legend Member #158 Joined: February 7, 2005 Gender Male Favourite Anime Naruto Shippuuden What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Fullmetal Alchemist	I read somewhere and found it very truthful. "You cannot say there has never been a black swan, simply because one has not been found. Should a single swan that has black feathers be found then you cannot say there is no black swan." So prove me wrong. Edit: You can say that Humans are the smartest beings on the planet purely because we can speak and commune with eachother. But is it not said that dog's have some sort of psychic powers? Dolphin's can be taught to dance and play american football. A Sea-Lion in Scotland was taught to speak basic English. You can say we don't understand animals. Yet I can tell when my dog needs feeding, or walking. Not becuase I do it every day. But because he gives signs and signals for me to understand and interpret. Likewise he responds to his name, knows when I tell him to go to his bed. And he can tell when I'm sad or need comforting. So that's why I believe there is something smarter than us. Maybe it's a higher power. Divine, yet physical. Maybe not. But you stick to your beliefs I'll stick to mine. Edited by Byakko, Dec 20 2008, 01:10 AM.
	GFX Portfolio Tumblr DeviantArt Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'"


Meowth	Dec 20 2008, 03:07 PM Post #17
=._.= Posts: 130,670 Group: Princess Member #23 Joined: November 22, 2004 Gender Female Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya What Browser do you use? FireFox Favourite Manga Fruits Basket	Humans are smarter than other animals because we have the ablitity to teach ourselfs new things to advance ourselfs. We also learn how to teach other animals to do things. Other animals are intelegent to a degree but not to the same extent as people, yet it's a humans ignorance to new things which can cause problems. Yes animals can comunicate with us and other animals but that doesn't make them smarter than us, nor does the ability to learn, yes it means they have some intellegence to do those things. Show me another animal that can cure an illness, build a robot, construct a stable house, make fule or unite all of it's species on a global scale and I'll admit that humans aren't the smartest of the animals. Animals live very basic lives, most people do when it comes down to it but they still do more than most other animals. Not to say living a basic life would be a bad thing, less things to worry about, things we invented. With intellegence comes stupidity and mistakes though because of our own ignorance. This is a diffrent subject though.



* Mitas	Dec 20 2008, 03:35 PM Post #18
It truly was a Shawshank redemption Posts: 12,129 Group: Retired Staff Member #2,993 Joined: December 16, 2007 Gender Male Favourite Anime DBZ What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DBZ, Full Metal Alchemist	Potato Dec 20 2008, 01:03 AM I read somewhere and found it very truthful. "You cannot say there has never been a black swan, simply because one has not been found. Should a single swan that has black feathers be found then you cannot say there is no black swan." So prove me wrong. Edit: You can say that Humans are the smartest beings on the planet purely because we can speak and commune with eachother. But is it not said that dog's have some sort of psychic powers? Dolphin's can be taught to dance and play american football. A Sea-Lion in Scotland was taught to speak basic English. You can say we don't understand animals. Yet I can tell when my dog needs feeding, or walking. Not becuase I do it every day. But because he gives signs and signals for me to understand and interpret. Likewise he responds to his name, knows when I tell him to go to his bed. And he can tell when I'm sad or need comforting. So that's why I believe there is something smarter than us. Maybe it's a higher power. Divine, yet physical. Maybe not. But you stick to your beliefs I'll stick to mine. I did not say Humans were smarter just because we can talk a language and communicate with eachother. There are plenty, if not all animals, that speak their own language and communiate with others of their species. We are the smartest being on the planet because we have a mind with the capacity to think, to form opinions (like the one you have now). The human mind has created almost everything you see before you, and has the ability to overcome any obstacle. We had no means of gathering food, so we created weapons. We had no way of cooking that food, so we created fire and tools. We wanted an easier way to eat that food, so we herded animals together so we did not have to hunt each one. That is just one train of thought the human mind has followed throughout time; there are millions. There is no other being on the plnet that can remotely compete with the intelligence of a Human. A Dolphin can not cure illnesses using science, a Dog can not build an entire civillisation and a Sea-lion can not build a computer like the one I am using to speak to people from around the globe. But like Kyonko said that is another subject, I just wanted to reply my argument in more detail. If you want to discuss this further then I'll be happy to debate in the deep discussion section. Edit: I just remembered. If I'm not mistaken, aren't Black Swans fairly common in some parts of Australia? Edited by Mitas, Dec 20 2008, 03:45 PM.
	"Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."


~~.Punxx~~	Dec 20 2008, 03:43 PM Post #19
Worst Member of the Year Posts: 1,580 Group: Suspended Member #2,429 Joined: July 11, 2007	I'm sure someone will respond so I'll do you a favor by writing in paragraphs Humans have always been killing their prey, in inhumane ways; even before the politcally correct movement of "animal cruelty". Ever since the days that we used sticks and jagged stones as our primary weapons , I don't think we gave animals a quick and painless death. Farmers, they keep their chickens locked up nowadays. Some more than not. There was a time when chickens ran around the coop, although now alot of farmers keep them locked up. I guess if you keep your chickens locked up it gives the farmer two advantages. He gets to manage his chickens in the easiest way, no more chassing the chickens around the coop. Two; the human population is rising, we need more chickens to feed people. He can have more chickens in one place, which really leads us back to reason one, by having more chickens squeezed together he won't have to run be in a disorganized coop full of 1000s of chickens. I just thought of a third one, Three; To a certain exten, he can put rows and columns of cages together, therefore he won't need to buy another peice of land he he buys alot of chickens, therefore his profit goes up. If there is anything wrong about preying on animals in inhumane ways, it is the fact that slaughter houses pollute the air. But then again, what doesn't pollute the environment today. If anyone wants to fight against pollutution, take a broom and sweep the streets, or take the bus a little more often than not. I do that! not by choice though. Which brings me rephrase my point, we are at the top of the food chain, it's our job to feed our brothers and sister. And above all else, food on our table comes from the money we make. Like you said Jake, we're smart as can be because we're human beings. You even said so yourself; Quote: we have the ablitity to teach ourselfs new things to advance ourselfs despite the fact that it may be cruel, the likes of those chicken cages in an advancment in farming. Arguably it makes the chickens less fit to eat, although I've never had a chicken in my life that had alot of fat in it. Unless you count the skin of the chicken and the nerves behind the leg, which have always been there. If there's anything wrong about animal cruelty it's the fact that people abuse dogs for the fun of a dog fight to the death. That's wrong, as there is no point to a dog fight, despite the wagers. It has nothing to do with the law of food.. it's like hunting for the fun of it! We don't stuff chickens in cages for fun, we gotta eat! Most chickens I see end up in the market either way. Edited by .Punxx, Dec 20 2008, 03:44 PM.



~~nomnomliekdis~~	Dec 20 2008, 04:24 PM Post #20
Posts: 1,465 Group: GTFO Member #3,700 Joined: September 21, 2008 Gender Not Specified Country None	.Punxx Dec 20 2008, 03:43 PM I'm sure someone will respond so I'll do you a favor by writing in paragraphs Humans have always been killing their prey, in inhumane ways; even before the politcally correct movement of "animal cruelty". Ever since the days that we used sticks and jagged stones as our primary weapons , I don't think we gave animals a quick and painless death. Farmers, they keep their chickens locked up nowadays. Some more than not. There was a time when chickens ran around the coop, although now alot of farmers keep them locked up. I guess if you keep your chickens locked up it gives the farmer two advantages. He gets to manage his chickens in the easiest way, no more chassing the chickens around the coop. Two; the human population is rising, we need more chickens to feed people. He can have more chickens in one place, which really leads us back to reason one, by having more chickens squeezed together he won't have to run be in a disorganized coop full of 1000s of chickens. I just thought of a third one, Three; To a certain exten, he can put rows and columns of cages together, therefore he won't need to buy another peice of land he he buys alot of chickens, therefore his profit goes up. If there is anything wrong about preying on animals in inhumane ways, it is the fact that slaughter houses pollute the air. But then again, what doesn't pollute the environment today. If anyone wants to fight against pollutution, take a broom and sweep the streets, or take the bus a little more often than not. I do that! not by choice though. Which brings me rephrase my point, we are at the top of the food chain, it's our job to feed our brothers and sister. And above all else, food on our table comes from the money we make. Like you said Jake, we're smart as can be because we're human beings. You even said so yourself; Quote: we have the ablitity to teach ourselfs new things to advance ourselfs despite the fact that it may be cruel, the likes of those chicken cages in an advancment in farming. Arguably it makes the chickens less fit to eat, although I've never had a chicken in my life that had alot of fat in it. Unless you count the skin of the chicken and the nerves behind the leg, which have always been there. If there's anything wrong about animal cruelty it's the fact that people abuse dogs for the fun of a dog fight to the death. That's wrong, as there is no point to a dog fight, despite the wagers. It has nothing to do with the law of food.. it's like hunting for the fun of it! We don't stuff chickens in cages for fun, we gotta eat! Most chickens I see end up in the market either way. Punxx, I can see what you are saying about it being an "advancement". It makes sense, I know that's why they do it, for a higher profit. However, that doesn't make it right. That doesn't make it any less cruel for those chickens to sit in there own feces and stand (because they don't have enough room to sit or lie down) and wait miserably for slaughter. I do completely agree with your thoughts on dog fighting. Dog fighting is wrong and disgusting and inhumane. There is nothing good that comes from that, plus the dogs are taught to live a miserable life.



Strawberry	Dec 20 2008, 07:18 PM Post #21
Chiaroscuro ♥ Posts: 17,000 Group: Rock Princess Member #1,750 Joined: September 24, 2006	YOU ARE... AN IDIOT... Quote: Humans have always been killing their prey, in inhumane ways; even before the politcally correct movement of "animal cruelty". The politically correct movement of animal cruelty?!??!? Are you serious?! This is an ethical issue, it has to do with morals, principles and justice, it isn't part of the politically correct way of thinking to be conscious about animal violence. That's the same as saying it's now politically correct to care about children in underdeveloped countries, I will tell you for some celebrities who need to be associated with charities it is, but that is NOT caring, that is serving a convenient image. The same goes for people who are aware of animal violence and want it to stop. It is NOT politically correct for those people to make protests, to stop eating meat , etc, people who really say no to animal violence and make something about it are doing it because they believe in that cause, not because they want to look good to other people, which is what politically correct is for. Quote: the human population is rising, we need more chickens to feed people LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!! What if I told you that if we had the obesity issue under control, we would be able to reduce the number of slaughters by 10% and we would still be able to feed human people? This number is correct, even though human population is in fact rising in some countries, it is also true that overpopulation is another issue we must control, because it is dangerous for us and for other species. There was a study made a couple of years ago that said if humanity kept growing in number like it is doing now, in 30 years we'd have to send some stocks industries make to space. It's ridiculous how you always put human comfort first, making it an excuse for the violence that keeps spreading everyday. It is NOT an excuse. Most of animal meat goes to the fast food chains these days, the percentage of obese people is now extremely high, especially when compared to the percentage of people dying of hunger in underdeveloped countries. You're putting this as if we need to constantly serve human's necessities, but you forget if we did that, there will be no balance in this world, there will be no limits to our necessities. Oh, human population is rising, let's give them more food! Oh, so if it is rising, let's also cut off more trees to make more paper, let's also destroy some conserved natural spaces to make space for more houses, let's also deplete our water resources, let's also screw up the whole world because HUMAN POPULATION IS RISING AND WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!! Does that sound fine to you? Does it, really?! I'd love if people would stop looking at the world as a maniac machine made to give humanity everything they need, and everything they don't even need but want to have. There's gotta be a reasonable logic behind all this in order to reflect on this issues and let aside our egocentrism to see that if human population is rising like it is, and if it will imply such devastating consequences to our planet, what we really need to do is to implement natality policies and try to reduce the number of children per couple. And NOT pack more chicken in cages, and try to have as much animals as we can in small places under horrible conditions to feed us!! That is WRONG! Quote: Which brings me rephrase my point, we are at the top of the food chain, it's our job to feed our brothers and sister. And above all else, food on our table comes from the money we make. It's our job to make the world a FAIR place for EVERYBODY, we are armed with the capacity of thinking (some of us), we are armed with human rights, we are armed with animal rights, we are armed with environmental rights, so we must use all that and realize that we are overtaking the planet like it is okay to do it, just because we've built arms and fire weapons capable of shooting everybody and everything down in a second. That does not make us superior at all, what makes us superior is the fact that we can rationalize an issue, and move our efforts and energies towards its best solution. And not the best solution for us, but the best solution for everybody who we share the world with. Of course that makes it a lot more difficult to us, that's why there will always be dichotomies between people who defend we're superior to other species, and people who defend we are equal to them, but it's our JOB as the only species who can make the effort to create a balance and give the world harmony and peace to try to get over those dichotomies and start acting for the benefit of humanity, animals and the evironment all together. Quote: If there's anything wrong about animal cruelty it's the fact that people abuse dogs for the fun of a dog fight to the death. That's wrong, as there is no point to a dog fight, despite the wagers. It has nothing to do with the law of food.. THE. LAW. OF. FOOD. ?! THE LAW OF FOOD ?! You've gotta show me that law, I really don't know it. I'll tell you what that law is to people like you, A FAKE NOTION OF SUPERIORITY, a proof of how irrational "rational" beings can be. I'm done with this topic and I'm done with you. Go stuff your face in the nearest Mcdonalds around and be happy.
	♪ ♥ ♫ Across The Universe


* Mitas	Dec 20 2008, 10:04 PM Post #22
It truly was a Shawshank redemption Posts: 12,129 Group: Retired Staff Member #2,993 Joined: December 16, 2007 Gender Male Favourite Anime DBZ What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DBZ, Full Metal Alchemist	Just because he has an opinion that is radically different to your own does not make him an idiot. Sure he could have worded his point better, but that does not call for you to partronise him and attempt to ridicule the way he go his point across. The way you put your opinion across, in my eyes, came off worse than the way he did. I just thought I needed to say something, because nobody else would, and .punxx has been called an idiot a fair few times in the past few days just because of the way he words his opinions, which are usualy the opposite to most of the members here which also doesn't help.
	"Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."


Meowth	Dec 20 2008, 10:33 PM Post #23
=._.= Posts: 130,670 Group: Princess Member #23 Joined: November 22, 2004 Gender Female Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya What Browser do you use? FireFox Favourite Manga Fruits Basket	He's been called an idiot by myself because he is close-minded, unwilling to change his opinions or accept other peoples. I can't speak for anyone else but that's why I called him an idiot in a few topics. But let's not discuss Punxx because that just brings attention to him which he seems to enjoy. I think he gets a buzz out of people not liking him.



~~.Punxx~~	Dec 20 2008, 11:45 PM Post #24
Worst Member of the Year Posts: 1,580 Group: Suspended Member #2,429 Joined: July 11, 2007	Quote: The politically correct movement of animal cruelty?!??!? Quote: This is an ethical issue, it has to do with morals, principles and justice, it isn't part of the politically correct way of thinking to be conscious about animal violence. I understand it is an ethical issues (for some), but all these ethical issues began sprouting not many decades ago. I like to dub this time; a movement of political correctness. There was a time when girls were spat on, not anymore. The feminists took a stand, politcally correcntess. There was a time when homosexuals were cast into the rocks, not anymore, they live among us. Politcally correctnes. Heck; there was a time when capitol punishment was available in more than just 25 states of the USA; not anymore, politcal correctness. Something that those issues have in common is the fact that g@ys, women, and prisoners are NOT animals. They are human beings just like me and you. They have the reasoning to debate, they don't eat one another (well.. maybe the criminals do because cannibalism is a crime...) yet most of all they all have the same goal from the moment they are born. Grow up, provide support for themselves, eat to live. I will get back to this point later. Quote: What if I told you that if we had the obesity issue under control, Quote: This number is correct, even though human population is in fact rising in some countries, it is also true that overpopulation is another issue we must control, because it is dangerous for us and for other Quote: You're putting this as if we need to constantly serve human's necessities You're absolutley right about that, there is an obesity issue. On the other hand, while acknowledging the fact that most slaughter-houses are located in the USA; I'll say that over half the world doesn't claim obesity as one of it's major issues. Also acknowledge the fact that the USA is either the 3rd or 4th most populated country in the world, again; more people in our country; more chickens we need to make! I'm sure that the bulk of the slaughter beef being made is sent to Burger King and company, although let that not overshadow the little guy, who breeds his meat, sends it to mark it; collects his cash, and provides neccessities for his family. In turn we do need to respect the necceseties of the human being, a necessitie is a need, not a want. We need food to live right? Farmers need the money to put food on the table and pay the bills right? Quote: really need to do is to implement natality policies and try to reduce the number of children per couple. And NOT pack more chicken in cages, Did you just compare a human being baby to a chicken!? There's nothing ego centrism about that. I'm speaking out of reality, you want me to speak egocentristic, alright. Since you put it that way; all Italy jokes aside please I want more kids, I want to bear 13 kids so that my national pride, blood line and family name may flurish throw the ages of history. Well, we need more food because in my house spaghetti and meatballs is a daily meal. Life is a cycle of beautiful things, say I am the alpha male. I represent all of mankind; hypothetical situation. I mate, I feed my offspring. I breed and farm animals, I feed my animals to my offspring. If I have 8 billions offspring, I must support 8 billion mouths. At the most convinient way. Quote: you always put human comfort first, No I don't. I put human needs ahead of human wants. Didn't I say that people need food and some people want dog fighting for their enjoyment. As you know; I am against that. THAT is cruelty to animals Quote: It's our job to make the world a FAIR place for EVERYBODY You shouldn't have said that there, that's a complicated matter and we might swift off topic. Well, I think we already have. So if we're going to make it fair for everybody let's put a stop to abortion, stem cell research and condoms! then people say I'M the Jesus Freak. Quote: That does not make us superior at all, Yes it does make us superior to animals, well actually IT doesn't. It is just a simple fact that we are superior to animals. Aren't we over animals in the food chain? Most animals I think. Quote: You've gotta show me that law, I really don't know it. http://blog.chrisworfolk.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/foodchain.gif Thanks you to those who respected my opinion, despite not sharing it. Quote: unwilling to change his opinions or accept other peoples I respect people's opinions, I am not forcing people to change their opinion or stance on this, my opinion soley diverse from you, and you, and you, and you... but it's okay right? Equal rights to the people. Freedom of speech to the people. I don't change my opinion, as much as people shouldn't change theirs. That's what we do on forums right? We debate like politicians; safe the insults. MAVERICK http://samueljscott.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/mccain.jpg Edited by .Punxx, Dec 20 2008, 11:49 PM.



Strawberry	Dec 21 2008, 01:07 AM Post #25
Chiaroscuro ♥ Posts: 17,000 Group: Rock Princess Member #1,750 Joined: September 24, 2006	Two things: 1 - Punxx, I read your whole post. Like I said previously, I'm done with this topic, but I wanted you to know that I read everything you said, because it would be unfair for you if I just said my two cents and didn't read your reply after it. So I did read it, but since you didn't answer anything (you kept talking about human's necessities, how we need to pay the bills, how we need to eat, and basically you repeated every idea you had already mentioned) I won't keep this argument with you. I could answer everything from your new post by quoting my last post. Ps: That's what you call the "Law Of Food"? lol. 2 - SSJ Mitas, it's not about having a radically different opinion, it's about the opinion itself. I am more than okay with people having different opinions than me, but let's face things, I suppose you don't agree with canibalism (I'm going for an extreme example just to make my point, don't take it too seriously), if someone made a post defending canibalism and giving stupid reasons on why canibalism should now be acceptable in our society, wouldn't it wake up your emotional side while replying to it? That's what happened to me. I am really not trying to offend people, that came out of my emotion at the time. I take back the insult, since it won't add anything to this debate, sorry for that. But everything else I said, I really do not regret it. And this is about me and Punxx, I don't want other people to find Punxx's post ridiculous, I couldn't care less about that right now, I myself did find it ridiculous and what I did was express it to him, and only to him.
	♪ ♥ ♫ Across The Universe


* Mitas	Dec 21 2008, 10:36 AM Post #26
It truly was a Shawshank redemption Posts: 12,129 Group: Retired Staff Member #2,993 Joined: December 16, 2007 Gender Male Favourite Anime DBZ What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DBZ, Full Metal Alchemist	I know you said what you said because you are passionate about it, and are a passionate person, and is one of the qualities that makes you who you are. I just personally felt, like you said, insults don't add to the debate. And I also feel the way you put your point across didn't add to the debate, but you brought up a good point about how it was between you and .punxx so I apologise for butting in. I just felt that .punxx does get a lot of stick around here, and I consider him a friend, and I was just defending my friend. As for what you said about cannibalism thing, we're different people with different ways of getting across our points. I don't generally let my emotions out when debating, which I guess is why I wouldn't make a good revolutionary or something along those lines (which you would :P).
	"Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."


Meowth	Dec 21 2008, 12:35 PM Post #27
=._.= Posts: 130,670 Group: Princess Member #23 Joined: November 22, 2004 Gender Female Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya What Browser do you use? FireFox Favourite Manga Fruits Basket	.Punxx Dec 20 2008, 11:45 PM We debate like politicians; safe the insults. You've never watched British politicians debating? There are often insults thrown around there. And punxx, this: http://blog.chrisworfolk.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/foodchain.gif Is not a law, it is a terrible diagram of the foodchain. People eat sharks maybe, but sharks also eat people. People can be eaten by any number of animals, we are not at the top of the foodchain in a sense, without our weapons, we are pretty usless. There are animals far superior in strengh to us which is why without weapons, they can kill us. The fact still remains though, it is crule to box animals up, weather they will be eaten or not. You can't justify it, they have as much right to wondering a feild as we do. I just think you don't care about animal welfare. When you box animals up, they are prone to catching illnesses too, these then mean the mass killing of many of the animals on a farm. That and the illnesses could pass onto humans. When you box animals up, there muscles become weak and they become weak, making the meat not as good as if they where free range. When you box animals up, you are torturing them.



~~.Punxx~~	Dec 21 2008, 03:12 PM Post #28
Worst Member of the Year Posts: 1,580 Group: Suspended Member #2,429 Joined: July 11, 2007	Quote: People eat sharks maybe, but sharks also eat people. Sharks eat people because fishing is one of the; if not the most dangerous job to be taking part in, as it has a very high per capita death rating. So I agree that we're at the top of the food chain because of our superior intelligence to other animals, we can produce weapons on mass destruction, we can produce the likes which kill, torture and capture any animality. From the chicken coop, to the sharks in the water. In a sense, people could die from getting eaten alive by pirhanas or even tuna fish without their artillery. Then again, our disadvantage is that without our artillery we can't fight off a shark in his home domain; under water. It's our intelligence to build weapons and what not, that makes us superior on the food chain. Quote: they are prone to catching illnesses too, these then mean the mass killing of many of the animals on a farm Even if you don't box up animals, they are still prone to catching illness. It happens alot with cattle.. they lie in their ***** all day even if they're not raise on the slaughter house.



Meowth	Dec 21 2008, 03:21 PM Post #29
=._.= Posts: 130,670 Group: Princess Member #23 Joined: November 22, 2004 Gender Female Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya What Browser do you use? FireFox Favourite Manga Fruits Basket	Yes but they are more likly to catch an illness by being so close to each other. If you stick 1 person with the flu in a cramp room of 100 people, chances are most of those 100 people are going to catch that flu. If you stick 1 person with flu in a large open space with 100 people spread around, it won't spread as quick and will be much easier to treat.



~~.Punxx~~	Dec 21 2008, 03:37 PM Post #30
Worst Member of the Year Posts: 1,580 Group: Suspended Member #2,429 Joined: July 11, 2007	You're right about that though.. I just wanted to post this to show that I saw your post.



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