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| Why god doesnt exist | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 3 2008, 09:26 PM (3,539 Views) | |
| Rockman | Feb 14 2009, 12:31 AM Post #91 |
hoighty-toighty
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You mean, "If there is a god, Whence proceed so many evils? If there is no god, Whence cometh any good?" |
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| Temphis | Feb 14 2009, 11:02 PM Post #92 |
Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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well, the way blessings from god work, is that they arn't imidiate consequences to actions, and they arn't limited to spiritual beliefs. a blessing can come from doing things like spending time with your family, reading any uplifting book, helping others who are in need. you don't need to believe in god to do those things, and those are just a few examples, but weather or not you believe in god dosn't prevent you from recieving blessings. each and every action has a consequence, both physically and spiritually. a person who dose good things feels good about them selves from spiritual blessings, and god will bless them with other things as well. the good feeling can also be contributed to the fact that our body releases endorphins, but theres a feeling that comes when you help a widowed mother with her family by contributing some time out of your day to do some service around her home, that ya don't get from endorphins I assure you. also, believing in god, and showing it through actions, merits it's own blessings. they normally don't effect your life or circumstances, but how you feel, and how others feel around you. no one needs to believe in god in order to be happy. in fact, some people that believe in god believe certain things about him that I find depressing, so in those circumstances, it might be benificial for them to stop thinking about god, but thats not normal. in anycase, what you believe, and how you act, is what merits a blessing from a living god. not believing in god dosn't mean you don't believe in helping people. athiests actually believe that most of what christ taught is true, where they loose blessings is how they act according to the knowledge they have received. knowing that domestic violence is an awful thing, and causing it anyway, is an example of acting against what you "know" to be wrong, and thus that person would loose blessings. dose that make sense? |
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| Temphis | Feb 14 2009, 11:05 PM Post #93 |
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Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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also, if god exists, I feel it is fair to say he would have given us a choice to come here before we were born. otherwise, we wouldn't have been given the freedom to choose now would we?
Edited by Temphis, Feb 14 2009, 11:05 PM.
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| Rockman | Feb 14 2009, 11:22 PM Post #94 |
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hoighty-toighty
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You've just explained cause and effect using the term "Spiritual Blessings." There is too much uncertainty in what you just said for any of it to be true. It's also impossible to prove or disprove the existence of a soul, especially before birth. Sounds fluffy and nice, and if it were true, what a wonderful world it would be. I'm pretty sure it's still just the meeting of 23 chromosomes that create a human. |
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| Temphis | Feb 15 2009, 07:07 PM Post #95 |
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Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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the thing is, if blessings are from god, and if god is perfect, then I feel it would be safe to say blessings are organized and come with a specific purpose. if you want to know it's true, than test the commandments god has given us. they are guidelines on how to live, and each one is given with a promise. like I said, the answers or consiquences are not always imidiate, but if you keep a commandment, desiring to know if it's from god, you can know that it's true if the promised blessing comes true after you keep it. the reason I believe in god all started with feeling and learning through experience, that he blesses me according to my obedience and desires. I have had ups and downs, and have learned through trial and error as well, and I feel that it all started from simply wanting to believe. I would invite you to strive and find the importance of what this would mean if it were true. if your desire to know if it's true as you learn more about it grow, than your likeliness of finding out if it's true will also increase. Edited by Temphis, Feb 17 2009, 01:21 AM.
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| Rockman | Feb 15 2009, 08:36 PM Post #96 |
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hoighty-toighty
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I find it rather convenient that god spoke quite a bit before most were educated enough to write and create thoughts complex enough to understand what keeps people alive during child birth. (birth mortality rates) If god is perfect, then the Bible must be perfect. If the Bible is perfect, then ALL teachings of the Bible are Canonical, and must all be added and NONE discarded. This is untrue, therefore the Bible is imperfect. The reason this is untrue is because the Bible is written by Humans. Humans are imperfect, and the idea of a God came from Humans. Therefore God is imperfect, and/or does not exist. Confucius also created a set of standards and practices for moral human behavior. He had no idea what the Ten Commandments were. So if you'd like to tell me that it takes a monotheistic god to teach people morality, then explain Chinese Philosophy as well in your argument. They weren't given with a promise, yet made complete sense on the basis of Cause and Effect.
It's possible to follow a moral standard in life without believing in a god. Since it is possible to do so, then why need a god or religion at all? Your society and culture demand that this be true, otherwise you find yourself being punished by the government you are under. I'm not going to argue with your personal feelings or beliefs in god. One simply can't do that without hurting that person. But I can't say that for other people who read this topic. Only write your personal experiences if you are fully prepared to answer for them. |
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Feb 16 2009, 03:39 AM Post #97 |
 
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I don't believe in God, although sometimes I wish I did. Things are to complex in this 21st century, sometimes I wish I were living in the first decade of the 1900's where all you needed were Church and grade 2 education, and you didn't have no distractions such as foreign religions, multi culutural invasion and INTERNET!... I guess you can add a bunch of other stuff in the list but whatever. All in all the bibles and and torahs of the world are philospohies of rules to follow in order to be a good citizen. That's it that's all. I believe mono- and polytheistic religions exists in order for man to fear god(s). To be honest with you, alot of media in this time we live in has made me loose faith, I was born into a Catholic family, yet here I am abandoning God. If this were the early 1900's maybe all I would need is a story from the local parish and God would mean the world to me. Now we have satelites showing disasters all over the world, showing how much of a bad place the world is. Seems like all those miracles in the bible stories were just either made up or... a thing of the past, because God knows I've never seen them on any media source what so ever. Edited by Kudo, Feb 16 2009, 03:40 AM.
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| The Grimoire | Feb 16 2009, 05:46 AM Post #98 |
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At least that's what I heard from a Catholic anyway >_> |
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| Rockman | Feb 16 2009, 12:23 PM Post #99 |
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hoighty-toighty
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That reminds me. The one thing that hurts religion the most, is the fact that none of them can agree completely. They are all so busy fighting what they think is right, that they don't stop to think that they are doing the same thing. I recall hearing a 7th day adventist when asked a question about Catholicism, proclaimed that it was wrong in the first place. |
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| Temphis | Feb 16 2009, 03:17 PM Post #100 |
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Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory!
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I never said the Bible had to be perfect. it's a record of the Jews and their dealings with god. it was also written by men of god, so it's concepts and teachings were origanlly from direct revelation, however, considering that it has been translated, and retranslated a good number of times, and certain doctrines were intentionally discarded by the Nicene Creed, it's deffinately not perfect. it wasn't written by god, but by prophets who were inspired to write down certain events. thats how I look at it at least. so don't try to tell me that "None" can be discarded. the Song of Solomon is a love letter, and has absolutely no doctrine in it, but funny as it is, the Nicene Creed must of thought it was pretty darn important cause it's in their. anyway, I could rant on what contridictions the bible holds, but whats more important, is that it is a true record as far as it has been translated correctly, and it's truths do not contridict, nor has the world and all of it's philosophies ever come up with more insightful and hope inspiring principles. I believe in the Book of Mormon as well, which if it's true, was translated by the power of god, making it the most correct translation on earth, but thats if it's true. if it's not true, it's the biggest lie on earth, crafted by the devil himself, cause no man could write that book the way it is without some sort of supernatural help. it really has no middle ground, it's truely evidence of some sort of supernatural beings living in the universe. it's teachings act as a second witness to the things taught in the bible, in addition to clarifying many of it's teachings, especially how ordinances are to be performed. you might want to take a look at it before discarding the probability of their being a god, since if it's true, that would mean their is a living prophet of god on the earth today. all cultures and religions have truths to them, some many more than others, and all are made for the benifit of man and getting nearer to god. they provide a sense of belonging and identification. it's actually benificial to believe in some sort of supreme being, because it gives us hope that things have a reason, or at least that we have a reason for being here. like I said, blessings are entitled to anyone, and other people can learn truths through experimenting different types of behavior. science reveals doctrinal truths, but it's all rather skeptical, since many theories are latter disproved by other experiments later. the thing is, no one can prove god is real or not, except god himself, and he will only reveal that to those who have a desire to know. my question for you, is do you beleive that their is any sort of eternal accoutability for our actions? like a judgment, or some day where all the horrible things that have happened will be amended, and their will be eternal hapiness? or do you believe that you will even continue to exist after you die? those are questions of the soul, that, if one believes in, will provide a foundation for the way they live, and how they feel about the world around them, for the better. I know I will continue to exist, and that I will be judged for my actions and desires, otherwise I can't imagine what would stop me from being a horrible person except for a fear of the law. I think the reason most people don't act like horrible miscreants is because they arn't sure if there is a judgment, so they decide to play it safe by being neutral. that would be the safe way to go, but you also don't strive to be better that way. if god is real, than so is the existance of a perfect afterlife, and so is the ability to change ourselves and become as obedient as the savior. BTW, I agree, most religions have a problem with not being able to agree. thats partly because many of them are formed for the purpose of self gain. some are nothing more than a career, and I have found in some cases that some pastors don't even believe what they teach, or practice it for that matter. however, if god is real, he is organized and has a religious orginization, one that is fashioned with the same orginization as christs. I don't want to offend anyone, so I'm not going to continue talking about this, but if you think about it, if all the different churches doctrines contridict, wouldn't that mean that only one of them is coming straight from god? I feel we need modern revelation, otherwise, christ couldn't lead a church today. Edited by Temphis, Feb 16 2009, 03:23 PM.
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| Jonnoley | Feb 16 2009, 03:59 PM Post #101 |
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Personally, I've seen no evidence God exists, or doesn't. I was brought up as a Christian, but I simply can't accept it without proof. I would much rather wait untill I have definate proof either way, than rely on blind faith. And also, while most organised religions exist specifically for profit now, I do believe they were set up for benefit at the start. Edited by Jonnoley, Feb 16 2009, 04:36 PM.
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| Meowth | Feb 16 2009, 09:38 PM Post #102 |
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What religions have you been looking into? Last time I checked, going into a church was free and you might have been asked to make a donation to keep the building running and the church to be able to buy things for the church. As a rule, religions are non-profit, some cults will take money from you for profit. If someone is trying to sell you a religion, then there is something fishy going on there. Diffrent subject though. |
 
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| Temphis | Feb 17 2009, 01:44 AM Post #103 |
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churches need a steady income from their members to function, thats understandable. the bible teaches us that we should contribute tithes and offerings to support the church. however, these "tithes and offerings" and stuff were used to help the church grow, not it's leaders. church leaders in the old testament and new testament always got by with their own means, Jesus was a Carpenter, some of the apostles were fishermen. they all had jobs, the church was an act of service, not a full time job. thats why so many churches today are built for self gain. when they originally formed, no they didn't want to just get money, but overtime, it's become a buisness, unfortunately, and there are pastors who use their license to preach to get rich. BTW, the "evidence of a god/does god exist" link on this forum, I believe it's of a non-denominational origin, am I right? it has no refrences to any specific commandments or things to experiment upon, only evidence based on study. I find this approach to discovering truth completely unpersonal and uneffective. I feel the best way to find out about god is to test him. not by throwing yourself in harms way or somthing crazy like that, but by doing what he asks us to do through scripture and inspired individuals in order to see if he will fulfill his promises. otherwise, we can never really know for ourselves, and our faith would be blind and based on word of mouth by others, whom we have no way of knowing if they truely know it for themselves. Edited by Temphis, Feb 17 2009, 01:56 AM.
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| Rockman | Feb 17 2009, 03:15 AM Post #104 |
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hoighty-toighty
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If we told you why this topic was first created, we'd probably have to kill someone. I choose Mike first. To say that I'm not learning something from your essay's, Temphis, would be a big lie. And I use Essay jokingly as you always seem to have a mouthful on rebound. Now, i'd like to ask the question, are you learning anything from the opposite side? To answer your earlier question straight out, though I see the point you made,
I find eternal happiness in the foods that I eat. In the bedroom. Outside. Talking to friends. I'm a humanist. I idolize humanistic behaviors and I am attached to this world. When I die, there will be nothing left of me except a legacy. At least in my mind. If there is something beyond this world, it seems a bit selfish of both God and Satan to want me to pledge my allegiance to. I simply can't do either, and deny both. What I see, is what I believe. I love life too much to even consider taking one second of it to praise something i'm not sure of. Even one second of my time devoted to god is a single second of my life I just wasted. I've wasted plenty in the past because of my parents, I shall waste no more. |
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Feb 17 2009, 03:45 AM Post #105 |
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May I? I don't know why I myself argued about this in the past. there is nothing to argue about! The universe is a mysterious place. Try to prove God exists, try and prove he does not exist. Try to disporve God's creation, try to disprove darwinism's monkey evolution. All in all, I gotta repeat myself. I admit that reading other people's opinions, aside from learning something new It just throws me into a ditch of more confusion. Mysteries of the universe? You can travel at 100 million light years speed and you will still never cross the final frontier. I choose to take a rather neutral stand point at the moment, I know this is a debate section, and I choose not to debate atm. Why can't we leave God alone, life's to short to be getting pissed off. I'm saying this in reaction to the few atheist groups that make a huge deal over religion... not this debate topic lol. Edited by Kudo, Feb 17 2009, 03:47 AM.
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