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Atheism
Topic Started: Dec 11 2007, 10:02 AM (3,802 Views)
.Punxx
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I don't typically speak upon Islam because I do not have much experience in their teachings. However Atheists do not hold any one religion higher than the next.

being a Monotheistic religion, you won't be suprised how close Islam is to Christianity and Judaism.. Jesus Christ is one of their most important figures as well.

also.. i'm gonna go on a limb and tell you why Christianity is the smartest religion of them all.

Because Christians were smart, they attached themselves to the bible, related their identity with the bible. The bible is the real power, not the Christians. The original church of God in the bible, were nothing like we see in Christians now, but Christians have usurped their Identity. and the world of religions have accepted that. The bible makes Christians more relevant than other religions. The Bible is more relevant than other gods, because it has had the most powerful impact on humanity by far. almost every other religions combined have not had this kind of impact on humanity.

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Rockman
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hoighty-toighty

.Punxx
Mar 24 2008, 06:34 PM
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I don't typically speak upon Islam because I do not have much experience in their teachings. However Atheists do not hold any one religion higher than the next.

being a Monotheistic religion, you won't be suprised how close Islam is to Christianity and Judaism.. Jesus Christ is one of their most important figures as well.

also.. i'm gonna go on a limb and tell you why Christianity is the smartest religion of them all.

Because Christians were smart, they attached themselves to the bible, related their identity with the bible. The bible is the real power, not the Christians. The original church of God in the bible, were nothing like we see in Christians now, but Christians have usurped their Identity. and the world of religions have accepted that. The bible makes Christians more relevant than other religions. The Bible is more relevant than other gods, because it has had the most powerful impact on humanity by far. almost every other religions combined have not had this kind of impact on humanity.

I'm not saying I don't have experience in their teachings, I'm saying I don't have enough to make a proper stance against it. Those who do would probably school me because of how much depth it has.

As for Christianity, I once was. For me in debates it's fair game. You'd be surprised how many Atheists have actually read the, or in the case of my arguement, A Bible. As a catholic I was also taught the extra meanings behind it. So to say that I read it front-to-back as any other novel is incorrect.

Commenting on your latter discussion;

Christianity as the smartest religion? That sounds very relative. I don't think you can calculate which group of millions of people are smarter than the next.
However I would like to say this. Of course they attached and related themselves to the bible. They wrote it. What else would you expect from a religion? And let me ask you this. Muslim's wrote the Qur'an, they also attached themselves to it. Why aren't they equally as smart? Why aren't they smarter? I do believe the Islamic nations hold their believes stronger than both Canada and America combined.

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The bible makes Christians more relevant than other religions. The Bible is more relevant than other gods, because it has had the most powerful impact on humanity by far.

I would like to request proof of this. Also, don't you mean, "The Bible is more relevant than other Holy books?"

I'd like to end this post by saying, Atheists do not need Science to point out the fallacies of Religion. Religion in itself is a fallacy."

I do not intend to convert people with my opinions. I simply suggest making decisions on your own and learning the truth for yourself.

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.Punxx
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I would like to request proof of this. Also, don't you mean, "The Bible is more relevant than other Holy books?"

the only proof i have goes by the numbers

theres more or less 2 billion Chritians in the world

thats more than any other faith.

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Christianity as the smartest religion? That sounds very relative. I don't think you can calculate which group of millions of people are smarter than the next.

i didnt mean it that way, this obviously goes back to the days of the disciples of christ, how they converted all of europe and the rest is history. The Muslims tried to conquer europe but they couldnt' mess with us.

I'm Chrstian and i belive not everything the bible says is exactly smart, but whaddya gona do, lifes tough.
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Rockman
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hoighty-toighty

The Islamic nations have never been rich or powerful. Even to this day the countries are still in unrest and civil war over land. They never had a chance against the Christians. They have never been United in their efforts to spread their religion. And instead, now they are forcing it upon predominate Christian nations.

History is evidence as to why other religions are not as active or big as Christianity. Especially not as Evangelical. The Jewish community does not believe in Evangelism.
Evangelism dates back to the Kings and Queens of different European nations. The entire reason Evangelism is still alive today is because of the influence back then. It was punishable by death to have any other religion than the one the King held sacred. A classic example of this is King Henry VIII. I do believe there is a statue in Oliver Cromwell's honor standing tall to this day in front of the British Parliament. Look that story up sometime, it has more to do with evangelical religion than you can shake a stick at.

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I have to agree with Dark Gambit here. Although I'm a Christian, albiet a not very abiding one. I don't follow the commandments. I think I've broken them all. (Apparantly you don't actually have to kill somebody, just hate them). But I still know enough to put in an opinion.

I think out of all Religions that Islamic nations have to most believable guess. And yes, it is a guess. Every religion is a guess, when it all comes down to it.

Christians have a book. And they choose to honestly believe what that book tells them is true. And if they can prove that what they say is totally true, then I'll believe them. Same goes to any religion. If somebody can prove that the world and universe was made by a Giant Wheel of Cheese, I'll believe them.

But even though there are more or less 2 billion Christians in the worl, who's to say that they all do exactly what the bible says. And don't break any commandments, go to Church at least once a week. And so on. I'm an example, as I've said above. While more or less, the Islamic religions take Religion pretty seriously. It's not numbers. But the whole following of what they believe.
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Rockman
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hoighty-toighty

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-FAQ of atheism, Clips.

http://www.atheist-community.org/faq/#empty_lives


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Q: You guys believe there is no God, but you can't prove that there isn't. So being an atheist obviously requires at least as much faith as being a Christian.

A: This assumption is rooted in the elementary logical fallacy that two opposite things--belief and disbelief--are actually the same thing. A basic tenet of logic is that anyone making a positive claim bears the burden of proof for that claim. For example, in a court of law the lawyers for the prosecution bear the burden of proof, because they are making the positive claim that the defendant has committed a crime.

To take a skeptical position regarding an extraordinary claim for which one has not been provided with compelling evidence is not an act of faith; it is simple common sense. Here is an analogous situation: supposedly, as a Christian, you do not believe in the Roman or Aztec gods. Is it just as much an "act of faith" on your part not to believe in those gods as it was for the Romans and Aztecs to believe in them? If a man walks up to you and says he has an invisible magic elf sitting on his head, do you automatically believe his claim? If not, is it an "act of faith" on your part not to? Or are you simply responding to the claim with common sense and skepticism because the man has failed to provide you with adequate evidence for his elf? Choosing not to believe in something when you have no reason to believe in that thing is not an act of faith, it is just the smart thing to do.

Finally, one can turn to the Bible's definition of faith--the "substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"--to see that this is a definition that excludes disbelief. So if you still don't agree with us that atheism is not a faith, then check your Bibles.


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Q: Don't atheists have basically empty, meaningless lives, when they don't believe that there is any higher power out there?

A: Nope. We don't think that the world is an empty, meaningless place, even though we don't think a god designed it. We think the world is a fascinating, wonderful, interesting place, and we enjoy living in it. Now, you may think that it's impossible to "really" enjoy this world without believing of God as the designer. We don't feel that way.

Suppose you are walking in a beautiful garden with a friend, and your friend says, "I heard there are fairies living in this garden!" You tell your friend that don't see any fairies, and you don't see any particular reason to believe that these fairies are there. You are just enjoying the garden. But your friend insists: "How can you enjoy this place if you don't believe in fairies?"

Unless you're a little kid, you would probably feel that your friend missed the point. Here you are, enjoying a nice day and great scenery, and your friend is trying to convince you to stop enjoying the garden the way it really is. He is telling you that you have to make something up, which isn't real as far as you can see, or else you don't have as much of an appreciation of the garden as he does.

In fact it is probably the other way around. It's a fine thing to have an imagination, but it seems like your friend is cheapening the experience, because he can't just enjoy something beautiful for its own sake.

The world has a lot of things to enjoy in it. Food, music, a well-told story, romance, sex, physical activity, the outdoors, the feeling of solving a difficult puzzle... just to name a few. These are things that most people enjoy on a day-to-day basis. And we don't appreciate the world around us any less for not thinking that those things come from God.

Also, it's not like there are no mysterious unknowns or "greater forces" right here in the physical universe. Most likely we will never know everything there is to know about this vast universe or our past. Who really understands quantum mechanics? Are there parallel universes out there? Are they accessible to us? Is time travel possible? Can we find a better way to generate our own energy before our sun burns out billions of years from now? These are all very big mysteries. One of life's great pleasures is applying your mind to solving hard questions like these. Learning is fun. Knowledge is fun. So it seems likely that we will never run out of things to enjoy in that sense.

You may have plenty of good reasons for believing in God, but if you think it's bad to be an atheist because atheists lead a cold, barren, loveless, uninteresting life, you are really kidding yourself.


The only problem with writing things like this, in which I have but can't find at the moment, is that your audience usually doesn't read it because they don't believe in what your saying.
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Silver Raditz
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Fudimentailist anything is bad and no offence but Atheists usueally believe this standard does not apply to them.

So often I have been faced with such furvant, acidic, biteing insults from an Atheist that I'm just dumbfounded. I honesty don't care what you believe or not, as long as you don't havea problem with me.
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hoighty-toighty

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May 2 2008, 12:03 AM
Fudimentailist anything is bad and no offence but Atheists usueally believe this standard does not apply to them.

So often I have been faced with such furvant, acidic, biteing insults from an Atheist that I'm just dumbfounded. I honesty don't care what you believe or not, as long as you don't havea problem with me.

You are correct sir. No one person in any religion or non-religion likes to have others beliefs pushed upon them.

I myself feel that it is necessary for society to have religion. I encourage the fellowship that they have. But it is far more common for a Christian to show little tolerance than it is an atheist. If everyone had the ideology that you do, that:

Quote:
 
I honesty don't care what you believe or not, as long as you don't have a problem with me.

the world would probably roll over and applaud itself.

The thing is, your practice preaches that I'm possessed by demons with my witchcraft thinking. And my practice thinks that your a bunch of sheep who'd rather be hand fed information than learn the truth yourself.

It hardly sounds like a match in heaven, but I, the Satan slinging atheist, have chosen to coexist with you Christians. But I'll be damned if I go without having a friendly argument with you first.
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Black Knight

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May 2 2008, 12:03 AM
So often I have been faced with such furvant, acidic, biteing insults from an Atheist that I'm just dumbfounded. I honesty don't care what you believe or not, as long as you don't havea problem with me.

I'm an athiest myself have no problem with religion. But from my own personal experience its always religious people that try to push me into religion. Havent seen an athiest do it to religious person, though I'm positive there is out there, but from my experience it seems that a lot and I mean a lot of religious people try to force it upon me. However I know its the persons fault and not religion itself as I highly respect anyones believes

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yankeesalltheway90
May 2 2008, 07:04 PM
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May 2 2008, 12:03 AM
So often I have been faced with such furvant, acidic, biteing insults from an Atheist that I'm just dumbfounded. I honesty don't care what you believe or not, as long as you don't havea problem with me.

I'm an athiest myself have no problem with religion. But from my own personal experience its always religious people that try to push me into religion. Havent seen an athiest do it to religious person, though I'm positive there is out there, but from my experience it seems that a lot and I mean a lot of religious people try to force it upon me. However I know its the persons fault and not religion itself as I highly respect anyones believes


I've seen that before, a religous person try to push religon on an Athist a few times. It pissed me off that they were being such bullies about it. Once it esspecailly pissed me off : They were tring to convince him (my freind) that he would go to hell for his non-belief. I confronted them about it and wondered later to myself, doesn't G-d send asshats like that to hell not Atheist who are good people.

I believe as long as you're a good person you're fine in G-d's eyes, even if you don't believe in him.


---

Speaking to my Christain freinds in the above posts... uh... The christains have the bible and that makes them specail huh? They are specail for sure, I will agree to that much. but not for that reason. EDIT: The reason is Jesus...and haveing a face to pray to

END EDIT

I'm Jewish...I have the Torah, it's a book...well really a scroll. All of our beliefs are wrapped up in that parchment scroll and to study Torah is the most important thing a Jew can do. It's revered heavely theirs even an arch in which it's held above every temple's beema (puplit).
Heck theirs even an "instrcution book" of sorts on the Torah known as the Talmud.
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Yeah People make assumptions, because I don't believe in god it must be that I believe in Satan. Yet Athiest believe is that there's no god, and no satan and etc. I mean I think religion is actually a very good thing for those people that truley believe when one of their family members or friend has died. I have known people that someone who they loved a lot died, the only thing that kept them going was the believe that the person had gone to heaven. So believing is assurance for some people which is good.

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Haze
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Just as an aside...

Curiously, I have found that, where Satanism itself is concerned, I'd rather talk to a Christian or other religious type, than an atheist. The nastiest jeerings and screechings I've received (largely online, mind you) have been from atheists and non-religious sorts. Religious sorts might be intimidated or afraid, but I find that they can actually warm up to me if I am polite and engaging, because their main concern is that I am going to be vicious, antisocial, and cruel. The non-religionists, on the other hand, are smug that I haven't been "smart" enough to buck religion or philosophy, that my philosophy has a "dumb" name, that I follow rules, and that I am so foolish as to have people I look up to and admire, like LaVey. The non-religionists are also quick to be insulted by Satanism's elitism, so they're quite angered by the notion that the religion isn't for everyone and won't/can't be understood or practiced by everyone--but then, they usually make idiotic remarks and pose brainless questions that prove the point!

I have found, therefore, that the non-religionists are much more determined to be cynical and sneery, and much more interested in trying to "one-up" me at all costs. In many ways, I would much rather be feared by the Christians!

Satanism aside, though, I do generally prefer to keep the company of atheists and agnostics, because they tend to share my sense of humor and irreverence, and I don't have to worry about tiptoeing around certain scientific issues that may pop their bubbles.
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Eh for the first paragraph of yours I say its all dumb people. People chose what they want. Wether its in God, Satan, or like me none at all. Though as I said many times I believe in no religion. It is people choices, hence the freedom of religion given to us all, well hopefully all of us in the forum have the freedom of religion where we live. No one should ever be forced to believe something that they don't actually believe. The sooner the world learns that, the less wars will be made

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hoighty-toighty

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May 9 2008, 06:02 PM
Just as an aside...

Curiously, I have found that, where Satanism itself is concerned, I'd rather talk to a Christian or other religious type, than an atheist. The nastiest jeerings and screechings I've received (largely online, mind you) have been from atheists and non-religious sorts. Religious sorts might be intimidated or afraid, but I find that they can actually warm up to me if I am polite and engaging, because their main concern is that I am going to be vicious, antisocial, and cruel. The non-religionists, on the other hand, are smug that I haven't been "smart" enough to buck religion or philosophy, that my philosophy has a "dumb" name, that I follow rules, and that I am so foolish as to have people I look up to and admire, like LaVey. The non-religionists are also quick to be insulted by Satanism's elitism, so they're quite angered by the notion that the religion isn't for everyone and won't/can't be understood or practiced by everyone--but then, they usually make idiotic remarks and pose brainless questions that prove the point!

I have found, therefore, that the non-religionists are much more determined to be cynical and sneery, and much more interested in trying to "one-up" me at all costs. In many ways, I would much rather be feared by the Christians!

Satanism aside, though, I do generally prefer to keep the company of atheists and agnostics, because they tend to share my sense of humor and irreverence, and I don't have to worry about tiptoeing around certain scientific issues that may pop their bubbles.

Jeeze, which atheists did you run into? An online community? Didn't you know that the internet is a hate machine?
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(largely online, mind you)
Yep, you did.
Some of my best friends follow Christianity or Satanism. I can relate to the Satanists more because they see things as relative and not absolute. Your looking for trouble on the internet. Your a big guy haze, i doubt anyone is going to flame you in person for having a differing opinion. lol
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because their main concern is that I am going to be vicious, antisocial, and cruel.

That's the spin they put on both our groups.

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they usually make idiotic remarks and pose brainless questions that prove the point!
I find that the best way to prove atheism is by history, not science. Go figure right? I wouldn't call history brainless or idiotic because it's rather true. Just like it's not disputable whether or not LaVey was born in 1930.

For the record, Satanism could be discounted in the way that Scientology is. Both are relatively new as, "religions." Also it falls in line with everything that Atheists don't agree with. Such as Pseudo-science, paranormal, god figures and naming itself as a religion.

In my mind, it's the better of both evils. I find no sense in following age old ideas of the origin of our species. I also don't feel it's necessary to live by a set of teachings other than self. Hence the language secular humanism. I'm still trying to figure out what marriage is good for other than a tax break.

As for commandments of your religion"s", Atheists have a set of those too. It's not a sin not to follow them, but they are very good ideas. Such as separation of church and state. That's pushing it. Morality seems to be lost without religion in some people. I find that very sad. So in some cases it's actually better for religion to have somewhat of an influence on a nation. However when it comes to deciding the morality of certain science practices, aka Stem Cell research, they are wrong.
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For the record, Satanism could be discounted in the way that Scientology is. Both are relatively new as, "religions."

Is a religion title with social acceptance THAT important to you? If winning over some group was more important to me than being honest with myself, then I wouldn't have taken up the label of "Satanist" in the first place.

Furthermore, anybody who pretentiously prides himself on being "pro logic" (something that militant atheists always seem to be patting themselves on the back for) should be aware of a little fallacy known as argumentum ad antiquitatem.

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Also it falls in line with everything that Atheists don't agree with. Such as Pseudo-science, paranormal, god figures and naming itself as a religion.

"Atheism" means absolutely nothing more than "no belief in deity". If you call anything more than the existence of deity "everything that atheists don't agree with", then you're making generalizations about atheists. A self-labeled "Atheist" who assumes that I must be into "pseudo-science, the paranormal, and god figures" is obviously another one of those people who hasn't done much research on my religion.

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As for commandments of your religion"s",

There's a reason why they're called "The Nine Statements" and not "The Nine Commandments".
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