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Atheism
Topic Started: Dec 11 2007, 10:02 AM (3,805 Views)
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Black Knight

Meh I dont feel like reading everything but one thing I've noticed, when religions people bring up evolution and talk about today's monkeys evolving, yet nothing was ever said that the apes we speak of evolution are the same as todays apes and monkeys -_- if it evolved of course they won't exist anymore. SO never bring the argument of todays apes evolving cause thats bs and a half, since these monkeys have nothing to do with the apes spoken of in evolution.


Funny how there seems to be more proof that proves scientists corrects than there is to prove bible correct

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Ana, I feel like I could answer everything you said just by quoting my previous post.

One thing I want to clear up is: I didn't say all religious people are wrong. And it would be dumb of me to think that only religious people have murdered innocent people.

I don't need any numbers, I am studying humanistic sciences in college, and fortunately my History teacher is a very good and qualified teacher. What I said was: Church has always been one of the main obstacles to progression.
I also didn't say that the radical groups weren't religious, some of them were, some of them were not. The fact is, the majority of them, even those who were religious, were against a lot of conceptions and traditional ideals of the Church.

I was just trying to base my opinion on what we can learn from our history because that is something you can trust. Facts are facts. Science is based on facts. I'm not saying Science can't be wrong, as there has been proved that Science is a moving camp, it is always in progression, there is no such thing as total truth. But at least it relies on studies with great substance and a high level of probability.

After the first Wolrd War, one of the main reasons for the implementation of political systems like fascism and nazism over Europe and especially in German and Italy was the valuation Church had during that time. Church had lost a bit of credibility before the first World War, but religious people kept claiming their privileges and influence on society, and when they started getting it, first thing they do is holding hands with all of those who wanted to have a strong Government based on authority and social repression. That was the way they found to be able to restitute their own authority among all religious people, too.
This is all documented, it was not the only reason why fascism and nazism took over some countries, but it was definitely a major help in that way.

And I'd like to answer you when you say that all I'm doing is talking about people who discredit religion. Well, this is a debate, you could not expect me to start saying how good religion is. But I'll give you this: some religions did have a good contribute settling good morals and the feeling of pride on work, as well as they had an undeniable importance on the act of creating a family and marrying.

BUT, once again, do you know why women started getting their rights across, and one of the reasons why feminist manifestations start occurring after the first World War? Not only women started becoming more aware of their value and their capacities, they also started having new conceptions of family, and that happened because of the laicization of occidental societies.

There is just too much against religions, and only a few relative explanations on why should we believe in religions and believe in God.

I do have faith, if that is the word you want to call it, I do have faith that my boyfriend loves me. But he is right there Ana, I can touch him, he looks me in the eye and says "I love you". That is heartfelt, that is something above faith because it is real.
I respect that you say you can also feel God. But shouldn't everybody be able to feel God?

And what about the studies of wild children I talked about? Shouldn't they be able to feel connected to God?
To me, religion was created by humans, therefore, you either want to make part of the acting, or you step out of it.

I'd say that it is a bit irrelevant. Even if you're not an atheistic person, if you're agnostic, you can live your life just as well as everybody else.

And you are no less than me. You're an amazing girl.
But for everything I said here, and for basically everything that Science, History, Psychology, Socialism, and all the Church's contradictions over the years have told, I can't help but think that religions are lies, sweet lies, maybe, because they have helped some people. But still lies.

And I'm done with this topic because it is exhausting and because we all know we're going nowhere. This last conclusion was personal, I don't want you to think that I'm trying to force anyone here to think the same way I do. I think I explained decently well why I am atheistic, there is a lot more to say, but for now I think this is enough.

Peace!

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Pineapple was all that to my post or some other post? o.O don't get me wrong I have nothing against religion I respect people that believe it,but once they start trying to porve that evolution is false, I just retaliate the same way thats all

Edit: Nevermind I just read and it was to Ana

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Lol yeah. I was replying to Ana's post.
I also do respect those who believe in religions.
All I did was explain why I do not.

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wow chi-chi made some rlly gud points about faith that i never thought of, but then again so did pineaplle make good points about her side of the argument.. not being an atheist ill have to root for Ana (right) on this one heh..
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I don't like talking about this topic because it goes no where. Women in religion were created equal. God created men and women to be equal, but once again people over the years have misused the text in the bible. All the wrong doings in the world have been done by ignorant, pathetic people.

It's not like I am against evolution. I agree that my use of apes evolving into humans was inappropriate, but don't get me wrong I am not totally against evolution. I think that God has something to do with evolution. However, my boyfriend made a good point before while I was speaking to him about this topic. He told me that if you are raised to believe a certain way, it is difficult for a human mind to comprehend another perspect. People use 10% of their brain capacity. In other words, those who believe in evolution have a difficult time understanding the religious side and vise versa.

I'm going to leave people with this though. How do you know for certain that God does not exist? If you know for a fact that God does not exist, that would mean you know everything, and we all know that no one knows everything.
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Before being atheistic, I was religious. I was taught that way. That's right that we only use 10% of our brains, but I did have to study and develop a critical mind to pass from a religious person to an atheistic one.

I did not say I know for a fact that God doesn't exist. In fact, I was the one saying that there is no such thing as a total truth about this subject. But from what I said here, I don't believe God exists. And I live just fine with that, just as you live fine believing in God for your own reason.

I explained mine, you explained yours. I think nothing changed.
I just hope our arguments have helped some people thinking twice about this topic, and creating their own thoughts and opinions.

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Truth is no one can ever 100% say god exists and no one can 100% say that god does not exist, there is no possible way to prove either one, therefore debates like this will last forever lol


P.S I too used to be religious

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Anyway, I think this topic should be closed because nothing will be won or lost from it.
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Hum nah, I won't close it. Let's see if anybody has anything to add to this debate. We'll go nowhere, but this is a fair debate and people can always show their arguments like we did.

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It's naive to believe that this world was created for no purpose. There was an account of a man who was about to die. This was on the 7 club on Fox family. He was about to die, but he saw a figure, who he believed to Jesus, ask if he wanted to live; he said yes, and he survived his ordeal. How do you explain the accounts that people have given over the years with near death experiences of seeing angels or Jesus? How do you explain that? How? Science can't explain something like that.


Temporary delusion, halucination due to poor physical state etc.

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I did not say I know for a fact that God doesn't exist. In fact, I was the one saying that there is no such thing as a total truth about this subject. But from what I said here, I don't believe God exists. And I live just fine with that, just as you live fine believing in God for your own reason.


That's right. No one is saying god doesn't exist, but also, no one can say he does exist just because no one can't prove he does not. But I am sure of one thing - even if god does exist, it's 100% definitely not in some Jesus-Christ-humanoid form.




I think that's enough from me in this debate. This is one debate where you should prove your point with common sense, and when I see AH using "facts" like angel sightings etc. I don't want to be a part of this anymore. Common sense tells me there is no god in humanoid form that cares about us and wants us to have faith in him/her/it. Period.

BTW, I was religious once too, but that's only while I was a stupid kid that didn't think about anything twice. (This is not an argument or anything saying all religious people have the intelligence of a kid, this is only in my case)
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I also did use facts to make my point. I used facts about our history, because it is a very reliable source and it proves that Religion have always been an obstacle to progression, since it has always criticized any new ideal, concept, study and scientific discovery that went against its own ideals. Most of the times Religion was proved to be wrong.
That tells me a lot.

Common sense also tells me that... unfortunately, I'm not able to feel what Ana says she feels. She said her faith leads her to feel God. Then why can't I feel God? Is that because I'm too critical?

Then again, what's about the wild children? They're not critical, they've just grown up away from any human civilization, and they also show no signs of religiosity. They SHOULD be able to feel God.
That explains that God and religion is something that you learn, and you eventually learn to trust it, then you assume it is real.

If Ana was born in the middle of a wild forest and she could make it through it and survive all of these years, she would also be unaware of God's presence. There are a lot of studies about this, I had to write an essay for Psychology about the wild children studies, so I am into it, and they're very relevant for this topic.

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Dec 16 2007, 05:04 PM


It's naive to believe that this world was created for no purpose.  There was an account of a man who was about to die.  This was on the 7 club on Fox family.  He was about to die, but he saw a figure, who he believed to Jesus, ask if he wanted to live; he said yes, and he survived his ordeal.  How do you explain the accounts that people have given over the years with near death experiences of seeing angels or Jesus?  How do you explain that?  How? 

Oh yeah, Im sure the money these people get from selling there story to the media have nothing to do with it.

I couid get hit by a car today, nearly die and wake up and tell everyone in the hospital i saw a figure of a man, I could go to a magazine or the media and tell them the exact same thing, get a few interviews, be mentioned in a few articles and oh look, im sure there'll be some cash to boot.
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Alright, but go easy on it. This is a sensitive subject and we don't want anyone here to feel offended. ;)

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I'm not trying to offend anyone, just saying theres alot of reason to doubt there being a God as well as alot of reason to believe
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