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Atheism
Topic Started: Dec 11 2007, 10:02 AM (3,806 Views)
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To counter Z fighter's comment, why believe in oxygen's existence? You've never seen oxygen with your eyes. You've read it in chemistry books, but you have never actually seen it. It is a tasteless, weightless, and invisible gas.


Awesome counter! I respect your views and your counter to my statement DS, lol.

But his existence is questionable... I mean, sure, maybe Science won't explain why we're here or what or purpose in life is but... When you look at the bible... Some things in it don't really add up to me... If God is supposed to have love for everyone right... How come certain groups are considered to be damned for hell then?( I think you know what I'm speaking of).

But that's how I look at it. Everyone has their own view on things, and I really hate fighting over religion... People should go with whatever they wanna go with, without question or how wrong it may be.

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Lol, that is what debating is all about. Everyone has their views on certain topics. As long as you respect everyone's perspective, then a debate can move smoothly. Anywayz, to answer some of your question.

God does love everyone. God does not damn anyone to hell. When Jesus died on the cross, he asked God to forgive everyone's sins. Like I said before, people put God's authority in their hands. For example, Hitler decided to destroy all the Jews. God never wanted that to happen. In the bible, it is stated to love thy neighbor. Since people have free will, they tend to decide for themselves. There are the ten commandments that speak for themselves.

I am the Lord thy God
Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make for thyself an idol
Thou shalt not make wrongful use of the name of thy God
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor thy Father and Mother
Thou shalt not murder*
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor 9
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife

If you look around the world, how can everything such as the ecosystem, the atmosphere, the landscapes, etc. be done to perfection. How do you explain why Earth has the perfect amount of oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, etc. for us to live?
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Dark Slade
Dec 12 2007, 02:44 PM
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Dec 11 2007, 11:06 PM
religion does cause hatred.  i believe in the bible, n when i see these fkn pakis in the middle east burning down christian churches i feel like smashing dem.

Thats not very Christian of you

He gotta a point though, If we did that here in britian burning down a Mosqu, we'd get thrown in prison for Religion hate. But if they burnt down a chritstan church here in britian nothing gets said. <_<

Angelic - Just cos the earth was made perfect does'nt prove a thing. When the big bang happened it released different types of gas cos of the explotion, closer to the sun the gas made different effects on each planet, some of the mixed gases made micro parasite which evolved into bugs which evolved into large sealike fishes which evolved into a dino, then monkeys evolved into humans. Sciance knows.

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AngelicHottieDS
Dec 12 2007, 07:48 PM
I do not have anything against Atheists nor will I force my beliefs on them, but I do tend to ask them to look around at the world.  When you go to school, look around at the trees and the sky.  Science may answer "how" something works, but it does not explain "why."  Why does a new generation exist?  What is the purpose for us being here?  Tell all those patients at a hospital that God does not exist. When someone prays, it is because they want that extra strength that will help them continue with life. God gives people hope in this crazy, violent world.

There probably isn't any answer to "Why?". I believe it's a dead end for intelligent creatures like humans. The question "Why?" something exists is just something human mind created, it's not some eternal law of nature.

You're playing with words AH. I could ask another question - Why should there be a "Why?" Also, why should the answer to why be god, why should the answer be present at this time at all? Maybe the answer lies in the end of the universe, and maybe it's awfully silly.

I see comments like: "Yes, but the true faith comes from believing, even though there is nothing telling you that god exists."

I don't want to push my beliefs to anyone either...but that just sounds like an empty phrase, made up by the church or whoever to make people believe in god when they start asking too many questions.

People who are religious will *always* find an answer to *every* there-is-no-god statement, no matter how reasonable it may sound. This thread could go on like this forever.

In the end, I think religion can actually be a useful thing - with some revising of course. The words of Jesus Christ are definitely a good thing to follow, regardless of whether he was the son of god, or just an unusually wise mortal. But believing that there really *is* a god in some form, as a being, believing in the miracle stories from the bible...I will never find any sense in that.
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For one, yes. the Earth does have the perfect amount of oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, etc. for us to live, but, if you actually looked into anything to do with that, you would see that its not going to last, the space that the earth is in IS perfect for now, but with planet alignment slowly moving its been proven that at some point in time, if the planet and our sun lasts long enough, the earth IS going to move from that spot and start to die anyway.

God didnt create this "perfection" The earth itself didn't just appear in the spot its in either, it took years for life to even appear and millions more to get to this point.


I mean think about it seriously, you all speak of God....an unspecified diety thats supposed to of created everything and has a plan for all of us.....grow up....
Everyone makes fun of Scientology and how ludicrous it sounds, Christianity makes about as much darn sense, that some......cosmic deity created the world and everything in it.

You wanna know the true bases of all religion...of all Gods...of all of it........Fear.

People were and still are afraid of death, afraid of being alone, afraid of life, so afraid they create these stories to help them sleep a little better at night,, to believe in God no matter what religion is to hide away from the truth, the inevitable truth that when it boils down to it, you're alone, and nothing is going to change that.

Im probably going to get bashed by people who believe in God for this and i don't care, if the belief of your God helps the fear, who am I to stop it.


Besides, 3 worlds everyone, The Big Bang, enjoy.
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Dark Slade
Dec 14 2007, 08:23 PM
You wanna know the true bases of all religion...of all Gods...of all of it........Fear.

People were and still are afraid of death, afraid of being alone, afraid of life, so afraid they create these stories to help them sleep a little better at night,, to believe in God no matter what religion is to hide away from the truth, the inevitable truth that when it boils down to it, you're alone, and nothing is going to change that.

Yep...yep, yep, yep. Great point - there are and always will be plenty of fear in people's minds - not saying everyone who is religious is weak of course, only that that's probably one of the biggest reasons why religion survived up to this day, with the major technological progress and all the great discoveries.
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Believing in God, does not mean one is afraid. People believe in God for their personal reasons. In my opinion, it is naive to think that this Universe existed out of pure reason for existing. There has to be something beyond what human comprehension can perceive. There is no point in arguing about religion because some people have faith and others do not. No answer is a right answer. All I know is that I believe in God, and I don't need evidence to specify his existence. It is a feeling I have inside that I enjoy it very much.
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AngelicHottieDS
Dec 15 2007, 03:17 AM
It is a feeling I have inside that I enjoy it very much.

I like that part and if it really makes you feel good then by all means, have faith.

What I don't like however is the ignorant part about the reasons for existence and limits of human comprehension. Like you said, our comprehension is limited, and maybe searching for a *reason* to something is the very defect in our thinking. Maybe it's that, and maybe it's not. Maybe there's a completely different reason for the universe's existence that we wouldn't ever think about, maybe the universe is not what it seems. But the human race wouldn't be where it is now if it wasn't for rational thinking, which requires to dismiss all the non-evidence-and common-sense-supported beliefs. I honestly don't think we'll get anywhere by believing in something that no one can prove in any way - if we have to believe in something, let it be something else, there are many things to believe in...

Then again, like AH said, some people have faith, some do not and nothing can change that. Human mind is just one big knot of thoughts and ideas that is very hard to untie...

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AngelicHottieDS
Dec 14 2007, 08:17 PM
Believing in God, does not mean one is afraid. People believe in God for their personal reasons. In my opinion, it is naive to think that this Universe existed out of pure reason for existing. There has to be something beyond what human comprehension can perceive. There is no point in arguing about religion because some people have faith and others do not. No answer is a right answer. All I know is that I believe in God, and I don't need evidence to specify his existence. It is a feeling I have inside that I enjoy it very much.

I'm not saying that there is no reason for the universe being how it is, All im saying, why does a God need to have created its existence, why does a God need to have a plan.
If we are apart of a plan for this universe, why is it Gods plan? The human race has come along way and will go even further to leave its mark but it doesn't mean its God that put us here and wanted this.

I mean, if He created all of us, why is the universe, to the points where we can see, why is it empty, why is there nothing else, no signs of any other creations, why stop at just one planet.

Im not saying that i have to have proof or see it to believe it, i just need a reason not to doubt that he exists
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Ask yourself this; why are humans the only species on the planet, who have "logical" thinking as you say it? If you believe in evolution, does that necessarily mean that the monkeys and apes of today are going to someday evolve into human beings? Also, if you remember something from the Bible, there was a symbol of a cross on Donkeys' spines. There are still signs of the cross on the Donkeys' spines, which is more than coincidental.
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Humans did not evolve from monkeys. They have always been distinct species. Don't even go there.

I can't believe I haven't seen this topic before. I am an ahteistic person, as some people here know.
I don't believe in any religions. I do respect a few (and only a few) of them, but most of them have created fear among the people who believe in their ideals. As Ana said, of course it isn't the religion itself, it's people's fault. But who makes religions? People. So it goes back around.

Most of religions' ideals have been adapted throughout the eras. We can now easily agree that a lot of religions' attitudes and ideals in the past were completely obsolete, and some of them are still obsolete now.
I find it funny that some of you still defend religions like they were and are a big contribution to our society. Religions label our values, they separate people, they get people stuck only on their ways of thinking.

Do you know why YOU, you who is reading this, are now a free person who lives in a democracy and has freedom of speech (at least in theory)?
Because of the extreme groups, of the most radical social groups. They weren't always right, they made big mistakes, but it's because of them that the history developed the way it did and it's because of great minds of science and great philosophers and socialists (Marx, Engels, Pierre Joseph-Proudhon, and even some of the greatest artists like Matisse and Dali, some of these people had to move from their countries because of Church, a lot of the greatest genius were tortured because they were against Church's WRONG conceptions) it's because of them that we are what we are today.

Don't go talk about metaphysic and how you your faith has saved you from desperate moments. That is absolutely NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, compared to what OUR history has told us. There is no better proof than our way to come here at this current point that religions are not the good thing catholics and other groups of people want the general people to think, religions have always been a symbol of fake peace (Remember the Saint War between Spain and England? Oh yeah), and have always been one of the biggest obstacles to progression.

God has never showed up to me. People say they don't have to see him just as you don't have to see oxygen to believe it, people say you have to feel God. But they don't feel God. People are taught to think they're feeling some mystical connection with a superior being, who should be God. Religions teach their people to always pray, always feel connected to God, always have hope.

Just like you learn that when something reminds you of your chilhood you feel nostalgic and sad, you also learn that in moments of crise, when you're desperate, or even in a moment of bliss, you feel faith, and you learn that that faith leads you to God.

That is all something you have to learn!
Do you know the studies about wild children? Wild children are all children who have grown up far away from any kind of human civilization. And it's been proved that they show NO signs of religiosity. They are totally unaware of God's presence or even of any superior and metaphysic presence.
Can you only feel God when you live in a developed civilization?
Does God only talks to the inner mind of citizens of this world?

I feel good with my own skin having no religion. I don't steal, I don't kill, I don't lie, but that is not because some religion tells me to not do that. That is because I'm free to make my choices and live my life under the values I set up for me, under the values that I think are correct, and not under labelled values that you have to follow to be a part of a certain community. So in that way, I am totally free.

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Kudos to Pinneaple.

Now I don't think religion is useful at all anymore, great points :lol:.
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AngelicHottieDS
Dec 16 2007, 10:23 AM
Ask yourself this; why are humans the only species on the planet, who have "logical" thinking as you say it? If you believe in evolution, does that necessarily mean that the monkeys and apes of today are going to someday evolve into human beings? Also, if you remember something from the Bible, there was a symbol of a cross on Donkeys' spines. There are still signs of the cross on the Donkeys' spines, which is more than coincidental.

Oh please, When was teh bible written??? How long have donkeys been around?

I'm pretty sure that cross was there long before the bible even existed
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Dark Slade
Dec 16 2007, 09:00 PM
Oh please, When was teh bible written??? How long have donkeys been around?

I'm pretty sure that cross was there long before the bible even existed

I agree. That donkey argument was a bit childish.

Don't tell me people believe in God because of donkey signs? Besides, it's a widely known fact that if you look for clues and the like in something long enough, you'll find them, even if they aren't there. Take the "Da Vinci Code" or the horoscope for example ;). The points *for* religion should be built on a stronger basis, but it appears that when there is nothing left, religious people usually go for such trivial facts that are most certainly wrong.
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Dec 16 2007, 12:55 PM


Do you know why YOU, you who is reading this, are now a free person who lives in a democracy and has freedom of speech (at least in theory)?
Because of the extreme groups, of the most radical social groups. They weren't always right, they made big mistakes, but it's because of them that the history developed the way it did and it's because of great minds of science and great philosophers and socialists (Marx, Engels, Pierre Joseph-Proudhon, and even some of the greatest artists like Matisse and Dali, some of these people had to move from their countries because of Church, a lot of the greatest genius were tortured because they were against Church's WRONG conceptions) it's because of them that we are what we are today.



The Donkey argument was basically used as an example of what some Atheists, in this topic, have used to justify their views. There are some that are bringing good points while others don't back their points up with anything. It's my point of view versus 5 or 6 views.

Once again, I think your missing the big point here. Not all Radical groups were non religious people. In fact, many in the United States had a protestant religion that, thus, helped them relate to the general public. Does the Constitution ring a bell? The Natural Laws that you know of today were from religious people. It was not because they were faithless people. You are going to sit there and criticize religion when it is the very people who do damage to other people. I am a religious person. Does that make me a bad person? No? You create your opinion on those who give religion a bad name. When one is to make an opinion, it should be based off of a huge number rather than selected individuals. Those who start war for religion are wrong. There is nothing in my Religion that suggests to kill people rather it preaches to love your enemies.

It's naive to believe that this world was created for no purpose. There was an account of a man who was about to die. This was on the 7 club on Fox family. He was about to die, but he saw a figure, who he believed to Jesus, ask if he wanted to live; he said yes, and he survived his ordeal. How do you explain the accounts that people have given over the years with near death experiences of seeing angels or Jesus? How do you explain that? How? Science can't explain something like that. I highly doubt someone would make a bold lie like that before he/she is about to die.

Faith is a commitment. When one is religious, and one follows it truthfully, one has discipline and respect. There is nothing wrong with believing in God. There is nothing wrong with having a religion. You say that you are totally free to do whatever you want right? What restricts me from doing whatever I want? Tell me what you have that I don't have. I enjoy my life such as any other person does.

You love your boyfriend right Kris? Your boyfriend loves you in return right? Although he can show you affection and vice versa, you are not inside of his body. You don't know what he is thinking, but somehow you can feel he loves you. You have FAITH that he loves you. Love is not something someone can truly explain or comprehend, but you KNOW it's love. It is the same thing with God. I can't see God, but I feel that God is there. I have FAITH that God is there.

Edit:

Here are the numbers for you


Atheists

Joseph Stalin, Atheist: 20 million plus dead
Mao-Tse-Tung, Atheist: 40 million plus dead
Pol Pot, Atheist: 2 million dead
Kim-Il-Sung, Atheist: 5 million dead
Fidel Castro, Atheist: 1 million dead


Pope John Paul II, Anita Bryant and Pat Robertson put together have murdered no one

Hmm...I guess it's not just religious people who have done harm in the past? I'm not going to make the assumption that those who are non religious are wrong such as you have stated about religious people.

Also, as a person, how can you tell the difference between good and evil? I'm curious to ask.
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