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Dabura
Topic Started: Aug 9 2018, 06:03 PM (444 Views)
+ Ssj3vegito96
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I know this is a common debate but I never really got too into it. What’s the consensus here? When goku compared him to cell was he talking about perfect cell or super perfect cell? Wouldn’t it make sense if it was SPC? Goku sensed SPC so why would he compare him to the weaker version?
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If Goku meant any exact, particular form or power level of Cell's, he would have said so. Something like "he's every bit as strong as Cell when Gohan beat him," or "he seems as strong as Cell when he fought me," or "he's as powerful as Cell was before he self-destructed."

But he didn't. "I guess they're probably about the same" isn't specific at all. It probably couldn't be any more specific than that, since they couldn't sense Dabra's power and were judging him based on his movements. The dialogue from Goku just tells us that Dabra is on a general broad "Perfect Cell tier," and then we extrapolate a more exact estimate for ourselves from there.
Edited by Kaboom, Aug 10 2018, 06:29 AM.
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Goku can’t sense his power while fighting gohan?
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Probably not, no. He'd be judging Dabra then by measuring how well he does against Gohan, along with accounting for his magical abilities. Just like how he gave the initial "probably Cell-ish" estimate by judging how quickly and easily he closed in and killed Kibito.

That's a thing with all of Bobbidi's other loyal minions too, and it's why the sequence in Bobbidi's ship can seem like such a disjointed mess logically. Goku says he can't feel any "life energy" from Spopovich and Yamu. Vegeta's eager to fight Pui-Pui until the "fight" actually starts. Goku has to use air currents to track Yakon in the dark. Same thing holds true for Dabra, and they have to make vague guesses about his power based on how he moves and fights.
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Scotty_Rogers
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Your Boy Scotty

Yeah, I always found weird how no one could sense energy from Yamu and Spopovich, yet they can apparently sense energy from Dabra and Vegeta when they were Majin servants as well.

Just goes to show how passionless and burnt out Toriyama was during the Boo arc. Although he had already reached that point long before.
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+ Kaboom
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Yeah, the only nick in that whole thing is Vegeta, whose power I'm pretty sure was sensed and mentioned once or twice. There was Goku when they both first went SS2, and something from Goten and Trunks a little before or after that.

But we could probably easily explain it away for Vegeta, and assume his power can still be sensed either because he's so newly enslaved or hasn't totally surrendered to Bobbidi's spell.
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Scotty_Rogers
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Your Boy Scotty

That doesn't explain how they could sense Dabra, though.

Interestingly enough, Toriyama seemed to flip-flop on whether or not Vegeta's power could be sensed.

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P6.1-2
Context: after Majin Boo quickly reaches full power
Kaioshin: “Th-that’s impossible…Wh-why has Goku’s damage energy [filled it up] already…!?”
Gohan: “…I-I know…! Father is fighting at a level that has further surpassed Super Saiyan…Vegeta probably is too…If-if two incredible powers like that clash, th-the damage is astounding too…!”


Gohan's talking as if he can only sense Goku and not Vegeta; he only thinks Vegeta is "probably" beyond Super Saiyan. If he could actually sense Vegeta, he'd be sure Vegeta was beyond Super Saiyan. Yet Piccolo was clearly able to sense him here:

Chapter: 465 (DBZ 271), P2.3-4
Context: as Vegeta fights Boo
Piccolo: “[Vegeta]’s already surpassed Super Saiyan as well…This is tremendous power…Perhaps even greater than Gohan’s when he fought Cell…But then…Even Gohan has been killed by Majin Boo…Why is Majin Boo as [strong?] as this?…”
Edited by Scotty_Rogers, Aug 9 2018, 07:23 PM.
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When do they indicate they can actually sense Dabra's ki, rather than just judging him on movement, magic, or whatever? I can't recall any specific line, and there's nothing in the translated "Strength Checker" dialogue either.
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Could piccolo have been judging vegeta’s power level based on his movements?
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Scotty_Rogers
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Ssj3vegito96
Aug 9 2018, 07:46 PM
Could piccolo have been judging vegeta’s power level based on his movements?
Yeah, thinking about it more, he could have just determined Vegeta's power based on how he was seemingly stomping Boo, who could be sensed.

Goku probably guessed Dabra's power based on his actions as well. Lol I was gonna post something like this but I thought it seemed too head canon ish
Edited by Scotty_Rogers, Aug 9 2018, 07:58 PM.
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That could also be why Piccolo wasn’t entirely sure if Vegeta surpassed Kid Gohan, while Vegeta was easily able to discern that Goku did.
Edited by Six Trails, Aug 9 2018, 08:31 PM.
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Darker
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I've always thought Goku was referring to the Cell he fought, considering it was the only one he got to fight.
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StrenuousSpider
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I say SPC.

Future dabura was defiantly Ssj2 teir.
He was confident in beating gohan.
Goku say he is cell level
Goku tells gohan if he get angry like he did against cell no one could beat him.
Dabura imo did better then gohan against buu.

I think its safe to say he is SPC level. Just like with anything we have to assume the strongest of the character being mentioned. In GT with rildo. In Son goku and friends return with avo and cado. And nothing down right contradicts it either. When trunks came we saw how sometime of freizas teir would compete with the androids. And i think this was toriyamas way of saying this would happen to cell if he was here.
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Vance
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At bare minimum, he's above Perfect Cell (Full Power). Goku was present for that transformation, and would thereby be capable of sensing his Ki / gauging his abilities. Considering that Goku commented that Dabura was stronger than he'd given him credit for (some argue this is just referencing his use of magic, but I don't see how that isn't relevant to powerscaling), it's clear that Dabura is a tier above FP Perfect Cell.

SSJ2 Gohan (teen) ~ SPC > / ~ Dabura > SSJ2 Gohan (adult) > / ~ FP Perfect Cell
"A good fighter knows his mental and physical limitations, but a great fighter will figure his way around them"
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