|
Current piccolo vs janemba; Who takes this fight?
|
|
Topic Started: Jul 11 2018, 09:01 AM (871 Views)
|
|
StrenuousSpider
|
Yesterday, 5:05 AM
Post #16
|
- Posts:
- 2,085
- Group:
- Member
- Member
- #13,372
- Joined:
- July 11, 2016
- Gender
- Male
- Country
- United States
|
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 04:50 AM
- StrenuousSpider
- Jul 12 2018, 04:38 AM
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 03:35 AM
- StrenuousSpider
- Jul 11 2018, 08:31 PM
- PF18
- Jul 11 2018, 08:05 PM
- StrenuousSpider
- Jul 11 2018, 07:27 PM
Piccolo kills janamba.
And janamba far outclasses any buu.
Care to elaborate?
Goku said fat janamba had the strongest ki hes ever felt. This includes gotenks. This is a toei product and in every other product they made goku > gotenks > ultimate gohan. From filler to other movies. That dose not change for this movie. Inside buu they were said to be at there normal strength. Toei has them being beaten pretty easily. In the hirudagarn movie we have. Ssj3 goku >> Ssj goku > ssj3 gotenks > ultimate gohan We have toei saying janamba > hirudagarn Going by power scaleing ssj3 goku > vegito So that puts fat janamba around the buuhan level. And super janamba alot stronger then ssj3 so alot stronger then vegito. And thats not even full power janamba as we see him power up greatly later against gogeta but still weaker. It all comes down to toeis haxing of goku and vegeta when ever tgey get there hands on them.
Yeah ok but how do you figure Piccolo is as string as this Super strong Janemba?
I mean i just go with what the show told me. Goku absorbs god. Gohan is close to goku in power shown in saiya man episodes. Piccolo is stronger then ssj2 gohan. Its just how i see things. The same old subject we if i remember have talked about a few times. We also have gotenks being weaker then base vegeta/goku. So if i use that. Piccolo > ssj2 gohan/goku > ssj gohan/goku > base gohan/goku > ssj3 gotenks.
No offense, but I think that you may have misinterpreted things a little bit. Goku was holding back against Gohan so you can't really use that. He isn't suddenly as strong as his dad out of nowhere. Gohan accuses Goku of holding back and then Goku says that he was testing Gohan(AKA not denying that he was holding back) They fight evenly in Base as Goku admitted to holding back then they go SSJ and continue to fight evenly. So the implication is that Goku continued to hold back. It is impossible to quantify by how much Goku was holding back. It was just a sparring match between Goku and his son who he knows doesn't train that much anymore. So the way that you lump Gohan/Goku together in equivalent forms isn't the case. So yeah we know: Base Goku/Vegeta>SSJ3 Gotenks And we know that: Piccolo>SSJ2 Gohan but we can't really mix those chains the way you did. Fair enough. But the fact that goku had to go ssj even while holding back shows there bases are not to far off. If goku needs ssj to contend with ssj gohan. Look at it like this.
Gohan 1 Ssj 50
Goku 3 Holding back 1 Ssj 150 Holding back 50
Ill admit that goku was holding back but the fact he still need ssj and then ssj2 if i remember correctly shows they are not far off. Also didn't krillian say something like this is a fight between two ssj2s. In a later fight between the two. So they are closer then they are not. So id say piccolo being a good amount above ssj2 gohan would put him around ssj2 goku which of course is above janamba by alot.
|

|
| |
|
PF18
|
Yesterday, 5:13 AM
Post #17
|
- Posts:
- 450
- Group:
- Member
- Member
- #14,296
- Joined:
- March 22, 2018
- Gender
- Male
- Country
- United States
|
- StrenuousSpider
- Jul 12 2018, 05:05 AM
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 04:50 AM
- StrenuousSpider
- Jul 12 2018, 04:38 AM
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 03:35 AM
- StrenuousSpider
- Jul 11 2018, 08:31 PM
- PF18
- Jul 11 2018, 08:05 PM
- StrenuousSpider
- Jul 11 2018, 07:27 PM
Piccolo kills janamba.
And janamba far outclasses any buu.
Care to elaborate?
Goku said fat janamba had the strongest ki hes ever felt. This includes gotenks. This is a toei product and in every other product they made goku > gotenks > ultimate gohan. From filler to other movies. That dose not change for this movie. Inside buu they were said to be at there normal strength. Toei has them being beaten pretty easily. In the hirudagarn movie we have. Ssj3 goku >> Ssj goku > ssj3 gotenks > ultimate gohan We have toei saying janamba > hirudagarn Going by power scaleing ssj3 goku > vegito So that puts fat janamba around the buuhan level. And super janamba alot stronger then ssj3 so alot stronger then vegito. And thats not even full power janamba as we see him power up greatly later against gogeta but still weaker. It all comes down to toeis haxing of goku and vegeta when ever tgey get there hands on them.
Yeah ok but how do you figure Piccolo is as string as this Super strong Janemba?
I mean i just go with what the show told me. Goku absorbs god. Gohan is close to goku in power shown in saiya man episodes. Piccolo is stronger then ssj2 gohan. Its just how i see things. The same old subject we if i remember have talked about a few times. We also have gotenks being weaker then base vegeta/goku. So if i use that. Piccolo > ssj2 gohan/goku > ssj gohan/goku > base gohan/goku > ssj3 gotenks.
No offense, but I think that you may have misinterpreted things a little bit. Goku was holding back against Gohan so you can't really use that. He isn't suddenly as strong as his dad out of nowhere. Gohan accuses Goku of holding back and then Goku says that he was testing Gohan(AKA not denying that he was holding back) They fight evenly in Base as Goku admitted to holding back then they go SSJ and continue to fight evenly. So the implication is that Goku continued to hold back. It is impossible to quantify by how much Goku was holding back. It was just a sparring match between Goku and his son who he knows doesn't train that much anymore. So the way that you lump Gohan/Goku together in equivalent forms isn't the case. So yeah we know: Base Goku/Vegeta>SSJ3 Gotenks And we know that: Piccolo>SSJ2 Gohan but we can't really mix those chains the way you did.
Fair enough. But the fact that goku had to go ssj even while holding back shows there bases are not to far off. If goku needs ssj to contend with ssj gohan. Look at it like this. Gohan 1 Ssj 50 Goku 3 Holding back 1 Ssj 150 Holding back 50 Ill admit that goku was holding back but the fact he still need ssj and then ssj2 if i remember correctly shows they are not far off. Also didn't krillian say something like this is a fight between two ssj2s. In a later fight between the two. So they are closer then they are not. So id say piccolo being a good amount above ssj2 gohan would put him around ssj2 goku which of course is above janamba by alot. Theres really no way to quantify by how much Goku is holding back. The best we can do is say he needed Super Saiyan but even then you cannot be sure. He used SSB against Kururin so obviously he doesnt always transform only when he needs it.
Frankly I dont think Gohan's SSJ2 is even close to Goku's.
It could easily look like this:
Base Goku (Suppressed):1 Base Gohan: 1 Base Goku (Full-power):40 SSJ Gohan: 50 SSJ Goku(Suppressed): 50 SSJ Goku (Full-power): 2,000
And this would still fit with what we see in this scene.
|
|
|
| |
|
+ Solid Snake
|
Yesterday, 5:18 AM
Post #18
|
滅Are you frightened?
- Posts:
- 8,961
- Group:
- Elite Member
- Member
- #6,739
- Joined:
- September 11, 2011
- Gender
- Not Specified
- Favourite Anime
- Dragon ball, z, gt, Naruto & Shippuden, Bleach, Rosario + Vampire
- What Browser do you use?
- Kept you waiting huh?
- Favourite Manga
- Dragon Ball, Naruto, and Bleach
|
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 04:10 AM
- Quote:
-
Final Form Frost > Base Goku & Vegeta >~ SSJGod (BoG) Goku >>> SSJ (Buu) Vegito >>> Super Buu (Gohan) > Super Buu (Gotenks) > Ultimate (Buu) Gohan > Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks > Super Saiyan (M11) Gogeta > Super Buu > Super Janemba > Super Saiyan 3 (M11) Goku > SSJ2 Gotenks > Janemba >~ Super Buu (holding back) > SSJ Gotenks >>> Base Gotenks
This operates under the premise that Base Goku/Vegeta are stronger than Super Saiyan God. As established by King Kai and the narrator, this is not the case. Beerus and Goku thoroughly established that SSJ Goku(post-ritual)=Beerus. Things look more like: U6 Arc SSJ Goku/Vegeta>BoG SSJ Goku(post-ritual)~BoG SSG Goku>>Final Form Frost>Base Goku/Vegeta And Frankly, I don't think SSG is 50x stronger than Super Vegetto so I think that Frost, Base Goku and Base Vegeta are all well below SSJ Vegetto so I think he would fit between SSG Goku and Frost. How is that even the case? Goku was stated to being stronger than when he fought Beerus by Krillin. Even though he can't sense God, Super Saiyan Post-God was and his base now is at least as strong God.
|
 Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu
SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig SUPER THANKS CELL
Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story
Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
|
| |
|
PF18
|
Yesterday, 5:29 AM
Post #19
|
- Posts:
- 450
- Group:
- Member
- Member
- #14,296
- Joined:
- March 22, 2018
- Gender
- Male
- Country
- United States
|
- Solid Snake
- Jul 12 2018, 05:18 AM
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 04:10 AM
- Quote:
-
Final Form Frost > Base Goku & Vegeta >~ SSJGod (BoG) Goku >>> SSJ (Buu) Vegito >>> Super Buu (Gohan) > Super Buu (Gotenks) > Ultimate (Buu) Gohan > Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks > Super Saiyan (M11) Gogeta > Super Buu > Super Janemba > Super Saiyan 3 (M11) Goku > SSJ2 Gotenks > Janemba >~ Super Buu (holding back) > SSJ Gotenks >>> Base Gotenks
This operates under the premise that Base Goku/Vegeta are stronger than Super Saiyan God. As established by King Kai and the narrator, this is not the case. Beerus and Goku thoroughly established that SSJ Goku(post-ritual)=Beerus. Things look more like: U6 Arc SSJ Goku/Vegeta>BoG SSJ Goku(post-ritual)~BoG SSG Goku>>Final Form Frost>Base Goku/Vegeta And Frankly, I don't think SSG is 50x stronger than Super Vegetto so I think that Frost, Base Goku and Base Vegeta are all well below SSJ Vegetto so I think he would fit between SSG Goku and Frost.
How is that even the case? Goku was stated to being stronger than when he fought Beerus by Krillin. Even though he can't sense God, Super Saiyan Post-God was and his base now is at least as strong God. They spent like two entire episodes trying to establish that SSJ Goku~SSG Goku. That hasnt changed
Krillin made no such comment. He just said he had an "indescribable fear" which is quite literally as vague as it gets.
King Kai and the narrator both state when Goku goes SSB agaimst Freeza that he had surpassed Super Saiyan God. That would make absolutely no sense if he had already surpassed Super Saiyan God in his base.
Goku's base is weaker than SSG unless he got 50x stronger in his base.
|
|
|
| |
|
StrenuousSpider
|
Yesterday, 5:38 AM
Post #20
|
- Posts:
- 2,085
- Group:
- Member
- Member
- #13,372
- Joined:
- July 11, 2016
- Gender
- Male
- Country
- United States
|
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 05:13 AM
- StrenuousSpider
- Jul 12 2018, 05:05 AM
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 04:50 AM
- StrenuousSpider
- Jul 12 2018, 04:38 AM
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 03:35 AM
- StrenuousSpider
- Jul 11 2018, 08:31 PM
- PF18
- Jul 11 2018, 08:05 PM
- StrenuousSpider
- Jul 11 2018, 07:27 PM
Piccolo kills janamba.
And janamba far outclasses any buu.
Care to elaborate?
Goku said fat janamba had the strongest ki hes ever felt. This includes gotenks. This is a toei product and in every other product they made goku > gotenks > ultimate gohan. From filler to other movies. That dose not change for this movie. Inside buu they were said to be at there normal strength. Toei has them being beaten pretty easily. In the hirudagarn movie we have. Ssj3 goku >> Ssj goku > ssj3 gotenks > ultimate gohan We have toei saying janamba > hirudagarn Going by power scaleing ssj3 goku > vegito So that puts fat janamba around the buuhan level. And super janamba alot stronger then ssj3 so alot stronger then vegito. And thats not even full power janamba as we see him power up greatly later against gogeta but still weaker. It all comes down to toeis haxing of goku and vegeta when ever tgey get there hands on them.
Yeah ok but how do you figure Piccolo is as string as this Super strong Janemba?
I mean i just go with what the show told me. Goku absorbs god. Gohan is close to goku in power shown in saiya man episodes. Piccolo is stronger then ssj2 gohan. Its just how i see things. The same old subject we if i remember have talked about a few times. We also have gotenks being weaker then base vegeta/goku. So if i use that. Piccolo > ssj2 gohan/goku > ssj gohan/goku > base gohan/goku > ssj3 gotenks.
No offense, but I think that you may have misinterpreted things a little bit. Goku was holding back against Gohan so you can't really use that. He isn't suddenly as strong as his dad out of nowhere. Gohan accuses Goku of holding back and then Goku says that he was testing Gohan(AKA not denying that he was holding back) They fight evenly in Base as Goku admitted to holding back then they go SSJ and continue to fight evenly. So the implication is that Goku continued to hold back. It is impossible to quantify by how much Goku was holding back. It was just a sparring match between Goku and his son who he knows doesn't train that much anymore. So the way that you lump Gohan/Goku together in equivalent forms isn't the case. So yeah we know: Base Goku/Vegeta>SSJ3 Gotenks And we know that: Piccolo>SSJ2 Gohan but we can't really mix those chains the way you did.
Fair enough. But the fact that goku had to go ssj even while holding back shows there bases are not to far off. If goku needs ssj to contend with ssj gohan. Look at it like this. Gohan 1 Ssj 50 Goku 3 Holding back 1 Ssj 150 Holding back 50 Ill admit that goku was holding back but the fact he still need ssj and then ssj2 if i remember correctly shows they are not far off. Also didn't krillian say something like this is a fight between two ssj2s. In a later fight between the two. So they are closer then they are not. So id say piccolo being a good amount above ssj2 gohan would put him around ssj2 goku which of course is above janamba by alot.
Theres really no way to quantify by how much Goku is holding back. The best we can do is say he needed Super Saiyan but even then you cannot be sure. He used SSB against Kururin so obviously he doesnt always transform only when he needs it. Frankly I dont think Gohan's SSJ2 is even close to Goku's. It could easily look like this: Base Goku (Suppressed):1 Base Gohan: 1 Base Goku (Full-power):40 SSJ Gohan: 50 SSJ Goku(Suppressed): 50 SSJ Goku (Full-power): 2,000 And this would still fit with what we see in this scene. He still used ssj2 which would be unnecessary if his ssj is stronger still. The blue situation is just shotty. lol no reason for it. Hell he said he did not plan to use it against 17 lol. Did not use it against gohan until ultimate, not against roshi or buu, add tein to that list. Just krillian, freiza, and gohan later on. So its just a really bad explanation from the writers. So i just ignore it.
But regardless just like goku > krillian but he needed ssj to stop one of krillians attacks. He needed ssj and ssj2 to fight gohan so with the ssj2 thing i cant really see them far off from each other.
But for argument sake lets go with what you said.
Goku 40 HB 1 Ssj 2000 HB 50 Ssj2 4000 HB 100
Gohan 1 Ssj 50 Ssj2 100
But this dose not make sense in the context and statements from the show. We have krillian in awe of seeing two ssj2 fight. We have goku useing ssj2 when his ssj should be more then enough. This would not make any sense if they were extremely far apart in power.
So i think its pretty plausible piccolo is comparable to ssj2 goku in power.
|

|
| |
|
StrenuousSpider
|
Yesterday, 5:42 AM
Post #21
|
- Posts:
- 2,085
- Group:
- Member
- Member
- #13,372
- Joined:
- July 11, 2016
- Gender
- Male
- Country
- United States
|
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 05:29 AM
- Solid Snake
- Jul 12 2018, 05:18 AM
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 04:10 AM
- Quote:
-
Final Form Frost > Base Goku & Vegeta >~ SSJGod (BoG) Goku >>> SSJ (Buu) Vegito >>> Super Buu (Gohan) > Super Buu (Gotenks) > Ultimate (Buu) Gohan > Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks > Super Saiyan (M11) Gogeta > Super Buu > Super Janemba > Super Saiyan 3 (M11) Goku > SSJ2 Gotenks > Janemba >~ Super Buu (holding back) > SSJ Gotenks >>> Base Gotenks
This operates under the premise that Base Goku/Vegeta are stronger than Super Saiyan God. As established by King Kai and the narrator, this is not the case. Beerus and Goku thoroughly established that SSJ Goku(post-ritual)=Beerus. Things look more like: U6 Arc SSJ Goku/Vegeta>BoG SSJ Goku(post-ritual)~BoG SSG Goku>>Final Form Frost>Base Goku/Vegeta And Frankly, I don't think SSG is 50x stronger than Super Vegetto so I think that Frost, Base Goku and Base Vegeta are all well below SSJ Vegetto so I think he would fit between SSG Goku and Frost.
How is that even the case? Goku was stated to being stronger than when he fought Beerus by Krillin. Even though he can't sense God, Super Saiyan Post-God was and his base now is at least as strong God.
They spent like two entire episodes trying to establish that SSJ Goku~SSG Goku. That hasnt changed Krillin made no such comment. He just said he had an "indescribable fear" which is quite literally as vague as it gets. King Kai and the narrator both state when Goku goes SSB agaimst Freeza that he had surpassed Super Saiyan God. That would make absolutely no sense if he had already surpassed Super Saiyan God in his base. Goku's base is weaker than SSG unless he got 50x stronger in his base. If i remember correctly they also said his power is frighteningly high something not said about his past ssj self. Anyway even if we say ssj is equal then ssj2 and 3 surpass god so those statements about only surpassing god as blue is just wrong. Goku can still be equal to god or close to it and the statements still hold true. But its really just how you interpret whats being said. Also 1 sub says what you saix another says what he says.
|

|
| |
|
PF18
|
Yesterday, 5:50 AM
Post #22
|
- Posts:
- 450
- Group:
- Member
- Member
- #14,296
- Joined:
- March 22, 2018
- Gender
- Male
- Country
- United States
|
- StrenuousSpider
- Jul 12 2018, 05:42 AM
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 05:29 AM
- Solid Snake
- Jul 12 2018, 05:18 AM
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 04:10 AM
- Quote:
-
Final Form Frost > Base Goku & Vegeta >~ SSJGod (BoG) Goku >>> SSJ (Buu) Vegito >>> Super Buu (Gohan) > Super Buu (Gotenks) > Ultimate (Buu) Gohan > Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks > Super Saiyan (M11) Gogeta > Super Buu > Super Janemba > Super Saiyan 3 (M11) Goku > SSJ2 Gotenks > Janemba >~ Super Buu (holding back) > SSJ Gotenks >>> Base Gotenks
This operates under the premise that Base Goku/Vegeta are stronger than Super Saiyan God. As established by King Kai and the narrator, this is not the case. Beerus and Goku thoroughly established that SSJ Goku(post-ritual)=Beerus. Things look more like: U6 Arc SSJ Goku/Vegeta>BoG SSJ Goku(post-ritual)~BoG SSG Goku>>Final Form Frost>Base Goku/Vegeta And Frankly, I don't think SSG is 50x stronger than Super Vegetto so I think that Frost, Base Goku and Base Vegeta are all well below SSJ Vegetto so I think he would fit between SSG Goku and Frost.
How is that even the case? Goku was stated to being stronger than when he fought Beerus by Krillin. Even though he can't sense God, Super Saiyan Post-God was and his base now is at least as strong God.
They spent like two entire episodes trying to establish that SSJ Goku~SSG Goku. That hasnt changed Krillin made no such comment. He just said he had an "indescribable fear" which is quite literally as vague as it gets. King Kai and the narrator both state when Goku goes SSB agaimst Freeza that he had surpassed Super Saiyan God. That would make absolutely no sense if he had already surpassed Super Saiyan God in his base. Goku's base is weaker than SSG unless he got 50x stronger in his base.
If i remember correctly they also said his power is frighteningly high something not said about his past ssj self. Anyway even if we say ssj is equal then ssj2 and 3 surpass god so those statements about only surpassing god as blue is just wrong. Goku can still be equal to god or close to it and the statements still hold true. But its really just how you interpret whats being said. Also 1 sub says what you saix another says what he says. But SSJ2 and SSJ3 were not used. Only SSB and base were used. Upon going SSB that is when he had surpassed SSG during RoF. This doesnt contradict the premise that SSJ2 or 3 are stromger than BoG SSG.
Gohan says "what a tremendous ki" and Kururin says "I sense an indescribable fear" so neither makes any comparison of power. Then, King Kai and the narrator imply that Base Goku < BoG SSG Goku
|
|
|
| |
|
+ Pyrus
|
Yesterday, 6:03 AM
Post #23
|
- Posts:
- 39,342
- Group:
- Legend
- Member
- #5,088
- Joined:
- August 1, 2010
- Gender
- Not Specified
- Country
- Chile
|
Current Piccolo gets his jaw jacked and his skin violently stripped off.
|
|
Spoiler: click to toggle
|
| |
|
PF18
|
Yesterday, 6:36 AM
Post #24
|
- Posts:
- 450
- Group:
- Member
- Member
- #14,296
- Joined:
- March 22, 2018
- Gender
- Male
- Country
- United States
|
- Pyrus
- Jul 12 2018, 06:03 AM
Current Piccolo gets his jaw jacked and his skin violently stripped off. That is kinda graphic dont ya think lol?
|
|
|
| |
|
+ Pyrus
|
Yesterday, 7:23 AM
Post #25
|
- Posts:
- 39,342
- Group:
- Legend
- Member
- #5,088
- Joined:
- August 1, 2010
- Gender
- Not Specified
- Country
- Chile
|
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 06:36 AM
- Pyrus
- Jul 12 2018, 06:03 AM
Current Piccolo gets his jaw jacked and his skin violently stripped off.
That is kinda graphic dont ya think lol? You missed the renaissance, my friend.
|
|
Spoiler: click to toggle
|
| |
|
StrenuousSpider
|
Yesterday, 7:34 AM
Post #26
|
- Posts:
- 2,085
- Group:
- Member
- Member
- #13,372
- Joined:
- July 11, 2016
- Gender
- Male
- Country
- United States
|
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 05:50 AM
- StrenuousSpider
- Jul 12 2018, 05:42 AM
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 05:29 AM
- Solid Snake
- Jul 12 2018, 05:18 AM
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 04:10 AM
- Quote:
-
Final Form Frost > Base Goku & Vegeta >~ SSJGod (BoG) Goku >>> SSJ (Buu) Vegito >>> Super Buu (Gohan) > Super Buu (Gotenks) > Ultimate (Buu) Gohan > Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks > Super Saiyan (M11) Gogeta > Super Buu > Super Janemba > Super Saiyan 3 (M11) Goku > SSJ2 Gotenks > Janemba >~ Super Buu (holding back) > SSJ Gotenks >>> Base Gotenks
This operates under the premise that Base Goku/Vegeta are stronger than Super Saiyan God. As established by King Kai and the narrator, this is not the case. Beerus and Goku thoroughly established that SSJ Goku(post-ritual)=Beerus. Things look more like: U6 Arc SSJ Goku/Vegeta>BoG SSJ Goku(post-ritual)~BoG SSG Goku>>Final Form Frost>Base Goku/Vegeta And Frankly, I don't think SSG is 50x stronger than Super Vegetto so I think that Frost, Base Goku and Base Vegeta are all well below SSJ Vegetto so I think he would fit between SSG Goku and Frost.
How is that even the case? Goku was stated to being stronger than when he fought Beerus by Krillin. Even though he can't sense God, Super Saiyan Post-God was and his base now is at least as strong God.
They spent like two entire episodes trying to establish that SSJ Goku~SSG Goku. That hasnt changed Krillin made no such comment. He just said he had an "indescribable fear" which is quite literally as vague as it gets. King Kai and the narrator both state when Goku goes SSB agaimst Freeza that he had surpassed Super Saiyan God. That would make absolutely no sense if he had already surpassed Super Saiyan God in his base. Goku's base is weaker than SSG unless he got 50x stronger in his base.
If i remember correctly they also said his power is frighteningly high something not said about his past ssj self. Anyway even if we say ssj is equal then ssj2 and 3 surpass god so those statements about only surpassing god as blue is just wrong. Goku can still be equal to god or close to it and the statements still hold true. But its really just how you interpret whats being said. Also 1 sub says what you saix another says what he says.
But SSJ2 and SSJ3 were not used. Only SSB and base were used. Upon going SSB that is when he had surpassed SSG during RoF. This doesnt contradict the premise that SSJ2 or 3 are stromger than BoG SSG. Gohan says "what a tremendous ki" and Kururin says "I sense an indescribable fear" so neither makes any comparison of power. Then, King Kai and the narrator imply that Base Goku < BoG SSG Goku Dose not matter if they were not used they would still surpass god by a good amount. So those statements are false plain and simple.
And krillian and gohans statements still hold some comparison when they did not say these things about ssj before.
|

|
| |
|
+ Solid Snake
|
Yesterday, 7:39 AM
Post #27
|
滅Are you frightened?
- Posts:
- 8,961
- Group:
- Elite Member
- Member
- #6,739
- Joined:
- September 11, 2011
- Gender
- Not Specified
- Favourite Anime
- Dragon ball, z, gt, Naruto & Shippuden, Bleach, Rosario + Vampire
- What Browser do you use?
- Kept you waiting huh?
- Favourite Manga
- Dragon Ball, Naruto, and Bleach
|
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 05:29 AM
- Solid Snake
- Jul 12 2018, 05:18 AM
- PF18
- Jul 12 2018, 04:10 AM
- Quote:
-
Final Form Frost > Base Goku & Vegeta >~ SSJGod (BoG) Goku >>> SSJ (Buu) Vegito >>> Super Buu (Gohan) > Super Buu (Gotenks) > Ultimate (Buu) Gohan > Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks > Super Saiyan (M11) Gogeta > Super Buu > Super Janemba > Super Saiyan 3 (M11) Goku > SSJ2 Gotenks > Janemba >~ Super Buu (holding back) > SSJ Gotenks >>> Base Gotenks
This operates under the premise that Base Goku/Vegeta are stronger than Super Saiyan God. As established by King Kai and the narrator, this is not the case. Beerus and Goku thoroughly established that SSJ Goku(post-ritual)=Beerus. Things look more like: U6 Arc SSJ Goku/Vegeta>BoG SSJ Goku(post-ritual)~BoG SSG Goku>>Final Form Frost>Base Goku/Vegeta And Frankly, I don't think SSG is 50x stronger than Super Vegetto so I think that Frost, Base Goku and Base Vegeta are all well below SSJ Vegetto so I think he would fit between SSG Goku and Frost.
How is that even the case? Goku was stated to being stronger than when he fought Beerus by Krillin. Even though he can't sense God, Super Saiyan Post-God was and his base now is at least as strong God.
They spent like two entire episodes trying to establish that SSJ Goku~SSG Goku. That hasnt changed Krillin made no such comment. He just said he had an "indescribable fear" which is quite literally as vague as it gets. King Kai and the narrator both state when Goku goes SSB agaimst Freeza that he had surpassed Super Saiyan God. That would make absolutely no sense if he had already surpassed Super Saiyan God in his base. Goku's base is weaker than SSG unless he got 50x stronger in his base. Its vague but the statement indicates that apparently this fight (Goku vs Frieza) is more intense than the one with Goku vs Beerus.
Well his base in RoF could simply always equal Super Saiyan God (BoG) Goku's strength. It doesn't necessarily mean he has to surpass God in base.
|
 Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu
SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig SUPER THANKS CELL
Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story
Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
|
| |
|
PF18
|
Yesterday, 4:41 PM
Post #28
|
- Posts:
- 450
- Group:
- Member
- Member
- #14,296
- Joined:
- March 22, 2018
- Gender
- Male
- Country
- United States
|
- Quote:
-
Dose not matter if they were not used they would still surpass god by a good amount. So those statements are false plain and simple.
This just doesn't make any sense. Goku used his base and then went SSB and King Kai/the narrator commented that he had surpassed SSG. Therefore, he did not surpass SSG in his base form. This has nothing to do with his other forms in this context.
- Quote:
-
And krillian and gohans statements still hold some comparison when they did not say these things about ssj before.
The fact that they didn't use that specific wording doesn't mean anything. They just made generic comments about Goku being strong and about being scared. Nothing whatsoever that indicates his base had surpassed his previous SSJ self.
- Quote:
-
Its vague but the statement indicates that apparently this fight (Goku vs Frieza) is more intense than the one with Goku vs Beerus.
Kururin just commented on being more scared than when Goku fought Beerus. There's no comparison of power being made he is just acknowledging that the guy who killed him before is here and obviously he will be more scared of someone who had already killed him than Beerus.
- Quote:
-
Well his base in RoF could simply always equal Super Saiyan God (BoG) Goku's strength. It doesn't necessarily mean he has to surpass God in base.
That wouldn't make any sense for him to be equal to SSG since this would indicate that either:
1. Goku didn't gain any strength from training with Whis for 6 months. 2. Goku's supposed "Saiyan Beyond God" is a weaker form than "Super Saiyan God." Considering the name of the form this wouldn't make any sense.
The whole Saiyan Beyond God thing was retconned by DBS. It was movies-only. They can't use God Ki in base anymore and their base is clearly weaker than Super Saiyan God was.
Edited by PF18, Yesterday, 4:42 PM.
|
|
|
| |
|
+ Six Trails
|
Yesterday, 7:03 PM
Post #29
|
- Posts:
- 1,570
- Group:
- Elite Member
- Member
- #11,764
- Joined:
- October 23, 2014
- Gender
- Not Specified
- Country
- United States
|
Janemba is barely stronger than Pure Boo, lol.
Piccolo kills him with his Makankosappo.
|
|
|
| |
|
+ Solid Snake
|
Yesterday, 7:37 PM
Post #30
|
滅Are you frightened?
- Posts:
- 8,961
- Group:
- Elite Member
- Member
- #6,739
- Joined:
- September 11, 2011
- Gender
- Not Specified
- Favourite Anime
- Dragon ball, z, gt, Naruto & Shippuden, Bleach, Rosario + Vampire
- What Browser do you use?
- Kept you waiting huh?
- Favourite Manga
- Dragon Ball, Naruto, and Bleach
|
- PF18
-
That wouldn't make any sense for him to be equal to SSG since this would indicate that either:
1. Goku didn't gain any strength from training with Whis for 6 months. 2. Goku's supposed "Saiyan Beyond God" is a weaker form than "Super Saiyan God." Considering the name of the form this wouldn't make any sense.
The whole Saiyan Beyond God thing was retconned by DBS. It was movies-only. They can't use God Ki in base anymore and their base is clearly weaker than Super Saiyan God was.
But he did, if he was a 6 as a Super Saiyan God and was able to retain that in his Super Saiyan form, he'd be a 0.12 in base. Now if he's fighting on a different level of speed this implies his base is as fast (and stronger) as Super Saiyan God (BoG) Goku's level.
Also, the line where Goku is said to have surpassed Super Saiyan God with Blue could simply mean that he's found a transformation pass Super Saiyan God. Similarly like how Gohan transcended the Mastered Super Saiyan form with Super Saiyan 2, even though he ascended beyond Mastered Super Saiyan they're are forced power up of that form which are too ascended beyond a mere Super Saiyan.
|
 Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu
SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig SUPER THANKS CELL
Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story
Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
|
| |
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
|