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| SSj4 Goku VS SSjG Goku; Both are Buu Saga; no god boost | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 6 2018, 12:23 AM (2,636 Views) | |
| superperfectnerd | Jul 6 2018, 11:08 PM Post #76 |
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Even if you low ball the gains. BOG God Goku = 6 ROF God Goku = 6.1 ROF ssjb Goku = 6.2 ROSAT ssjb Goku = 6.3 Beerus = 7 Ssjbkkx10 Goku = 63 Gohan two shots Cell with less than a 2 times advantage. I just think Goku being this much stronger than Beerus would be outright stated, not some vague attempt to imply because Beerus has destruction energy he still wins, nobody said that and we didn't even see destruction energy... not stopping Vegeta from punching Toppo in the face... until 2 arcs later. Seriously though, why didn't Vegeta just punch Toppo off the platform? Or knock him out and throw him off? I don't think you have the answer for this or anyone else, it makes no sense the way it's presented. Vegeta came up with that energy coated fist on the fly, couldn't Goku just do that in blue kaioken and blunt force trauma knock Beerus the f*** out? Edited by superperfectnerd, Jul 6 2018, 11:13 PM.
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Jul 6 2018, 11:15 PM Post #77 |
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What? The characters recognized Destruction Energy during the TOP we've seen them observe it before hand such as when Beerus and Champa clashed in Beerus' castle and their Destruction Energy was spreading before being stopped by Vados and Whis. We've seen things like Goku using Hakai in the manga and recognize it as Beerus' technique even though he's never even shown observing Beerus use Hakai or use any application of Destruction Energy on panel. I'm not seeing why Goku's techniques would count, but not the Gods of Destruction. Goku could do what Vegeta did in hand to hand, but he wouldn't be able to do anything when the Destruction Energy comes out(What Toppo used vs Final Explosion more specifically). Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Jul 6 2018, 11:16 PM.
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| superperfectnerd | Jul 6 2018, 11:17 PM Post #78 |
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Yes, all those things happened AFTER the universe 6 tournament and you're retroactively applying it, why did Goku, with no knowledge of this energy having those applications, not challenge Beerus when he was 8 times stronger than the god? Goku's technique of being 8 times stronger and faster than his opponent versus Beerus' technique of being able to erase energy attacks? How did Vegeta beat 19 when 19 could absorb and negate his energy?????!!!!!!!!! Edited by superperfectnerd, Jul 6 2018, 11:19 PM.
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| PF18 | Jul 6 2018, 11:18 PM Post #79 |
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"What you're implying that the writers are implying here is Goku... that's Goku... is too scared to fight Beerus but is stronger than him... because Beerus has some technique... that I don't think Goku has even seen at this point in time...." My phone wont let it actually quote this but you summed up his argument pretty well. It makes 0 sense It also disregards the entire concept of the "god boost" or absorption scene altogether based on a complete misinterpretation. Edited by PF18, Jul 6 2018, 11:19 PM.
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| superperfectnerd | Jul 6 2018, 11:23 PM Post #80 |
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Also, when Beerus and Champa's destruction energy is playing havoc in the castle, Whis tells them that's what happens when two gods of destruction clash, not "Beerus can do that to you Goku, even if you're 8 times greater than he is in power." You reckon that in this fairly simple teen audience show, Beerus is somehow both weaker and stronger than Goku all at the same time... or is it more likely that he's just stronger and it's that simple and it's not about some scene about destruction energy not even shown used in a fight against an opponent is somehow why Goku would lose? Edited by superperfectnerd, Jul 6 2018, 11:25 PM.
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Jul 6 2018, 11:23 PM Post #81 |
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Goku and Vegeta watching Beerus and Champa fight was before the U6 tournament. Nonetheless I see no reason why the characters wouldn't be familiar with the energy when we have things like Goku using Hakai in the manga despite never observing Beerus use the technique on panel. Between them being familiar and not being familiar, it's probably more likely that they know about it. Even Android 17 showed some familiarity with Toppo's power after he transformed. A God of Destruction's power isn't really a secret. |
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| superperfectnerd | Jul 6 2018, 11:27 PM Post #82 |
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You're really stretching your own headcanon to the utter brink to keep 6/10/15 aren't you? It's actually quite impressive. If that's the way it fits best in your head man, more power to ya. I like two base theory... well I don't so much like it but I just prefer taking that to taking Ultimate Gohan < Piccolo and base Cabba. I don't think the writers even really know where these characters are supposed to be so f*** it. Headcanon for all I say. Edited by superperfectnerd, Jul 6 2018, 11:29 PM.
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Jul 6 2018, 11:33 PM Post #83 |
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It's not really headcanon. The same situation you say is impossible is what we saw with Vegeta vs Toppo. Vegeta was beating him around easily, but would've still lost without Final Explosion. So there's a precedent. A God of Destruction's power is still>SSBE Vegeta without Final Explosion. And why would Ultimate Gohan be weaker than Piccolo and base Cabba? Gohan easily beat Piccolo upon regaining his Boo arc strength and Gohan was comparable to Goku in the same form as shown by their fight on the farm. He wasn't even at his Boo arc strength as an SSJ2. So Boo arc Ultimate Gohan would easily beat Piccolo and even SSJ2 Cabba. Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Jul 6 2018, 11:38 PM.
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| PF18 | Jul 6 2018, 11:39 PM Post #84 |
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6-10-15 is gone. Toriyama said it when he just had that movie in mind. DBS retconned it super hard |
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| Topographic Oceans | Jul 7 2018, 12:01 AM Post #85 |
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The 6/10/15 scale is alive... in my heart. |
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| superperfectnerd | Jul 7 2018, 12:02 AM Post #86 |
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Because Super Boo < ssj3 Gotenks < ultimate Gohan < base Cabba =< base Vegeta And Boo could actually fight Gohan and push him a bit, base Copy Vegeta just tanked everything ssj3 Gotenks had to offer. Edited by superperfectnerd, Jul 7 2018, 12:02 AM.
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| PF18 | Jul 7 2018, 12:24 AM Post #87 |
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In short, yes this is why Cabba>>Ultimate Gohan among other reasons. |
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Jul 7 2018, 12:41 AM Post #88 |
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I don't see how that chain is even supported. The base saiyans are shown to be stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. That doesn't have anything to do with Ultimate Gohan. Hopp was pushing Base Vegeta and she was weaker than Basil whom was weaker than Fat Boo whom was weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks. Gohan and Goku were shown to be comparable in the same form during their fight. SSJ2 Gohan was still weaker than his Boo arc self. I'm not seeing how an indirect comparison takes precedence over a direct comparison. Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Jul 7 2018, 12:43 AM.
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| PF18 | Jul 7 2018, 12:56 AM Post #89 |
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.....and that was a casual sparring match with his son where Goku admitted to holding back
Edited by PF18, Jul 7 2018, 04:27 AM.
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| superperfectnerd | Jul 8 2018, 09:51 AM Post #90 |
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Yeah you're argument is my argument for two bases but you aren't arguing 2 bases, you're just saying "Cabba isn't as strong as those feats suggest". Ssj3 Gotenks is around Super Boo's level. Ultimate Gohan had to block, dodge and put effort into fighting Super Boo. Ssj3 Gotenks literally couldn't move base Vegeta, Cabba was equal to base Vegeta. Stated by Vegeta, Piccolo and Goku. Ultimate Gohan of the Boo arc could not tank everything ssj3 Gotenks has. Edited by superperfectnerd, Jul 8 2018, 09:53 AM.
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