Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Rotation Advertisements



We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum.


If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away.


Click here to Register!

If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk


If you're already a member please log in to your account:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 5
SSj4 Goku VS SSjG Goku; Both are Buu Saga; no god boost
Topic Started: Jul 6 2018, 12:23 AM (2,638 Views)
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Member Avatar


The power that Beerus stated he used is the indication. Saying that he lied about Vegeta because he lied about Goku is baseless. He lied about using 100% against Goku. Anything else is an assumption and if you can't make it work that's your problem.

You're claiming in your numbers that he was at 1/8th of his full power during BOG which again goes against what's stated. He wasn't, just like he wasn't at 1/8th of his full power during the movie since that isn't how the form works. Just like he wasn't anywhere near double his BOG strength during the ROF movie despite being as strong as SSJG in SSJ, yet he would've been millions of times stronger in SSB according to whatever multiplier logic you adhere to.

The fact of the matter is he wasn't because the Super Saiyan from BOG isn't the same one as he has now as one is on the level of the Gods and one is not as stated by Whis. That quote alone dismantles your entire stance and that's why you try to dance around it so much.

And there isn't anything of relevance in the section of your post talking about UI. UI Goku at no point was stated to be Beerus' equal. I already know about the pamphlet you're talking about. That isn't even a matter of interpretation. It literally does not say what you're claiming it does and this comes from your confirmation bias.
Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Jul 6 2018, 05:59 PM.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
FinaleSaint
Member Avatar


I have SSG being a x10,000 Multiplier and SS4 being a x4,000 Multiplier.

If both are at the same Base, then SSG takes it.

SSG Goku: 850,000,000,000
SS4 Goku: 340,000,000,000
SSB Goku: 21,250,000,000,000

IMO The only reason SS4 seems like such a huge multiplier (more-so than it already is) is because the base power levels in GT (for Goku at least) are crazy.

I have Buu Saga Base Goku at 85,000,000
I have Beginning of GT Base Goku at 6,300,000,000

Edited by FinaleSaint, Jul 6 2018, 06:35 PM.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PF18
Default Avatar


Quote:
 
The power that Beerus stated he used is the indication. Saying that he lied about Vegeta because he lied about Goku is baseless. He lied about using 100% against Goku. Anything else is an assumption and if you can't make it work that's your problem.


I mean yeah it is an assumption. But your ridiculous assertion that the movies are somehow applicable to the DBS animie is also an assumption. I cannot "make it work" because it doesn't fit with the rest of the story and it is a lie. You also cannot "make it work" clearly.

Quote:
 
You're claiming in your numbers that he was at 1/8th of his full power during BOG which again goes against what's stated. He wasn't, just like he wasn't at 1/8th of his full power during the movie since that isn't how the form works.


I am claiming no such thing. Apparently that isn't how things work otherwise he would have gone SSJ3. I mean you are "right" in this case but only arguing against a point that literally nobody ever made against you. Literally the definition of a strawman.

Quote:
 
anywhere near double his BOG strength during the ROF movie despite being as strong as SSJG in SSJ, yet he would've been millions of times stronger in SSB according to whatever multiplier logic you adhere to.


See in the movie it is no longer SSJ~SSG but rather it is Base~SSG as stated by the promotional material and implied in the movie. Not even sure what you are trying to say here. There is even a name for this form in the movie; "Saiyan Beyond God." This is not "multiplier logic" that I adhere to this is what is stated. The way things work in the movie makes no sense since the new base form ->SSB would have to be less than a 2x boost over base since SSB has to stay below Beerus.

the scaling in that movie makes no sense but it doesn't even matter since this is completely irrelevant to this discussion and I have no idea why you brought it up.

Quote:
 
The fact of the matter is he wasn't because the Super Saiyan from BOG isn't the same one as he has now as one is on the level of the Gods and one is not as stated by Whis. That quote alone dismantles your entire stance and that's why you try to dance around it so much.


"This quote" you keep referring to doesn't even explicitly say what you are implying it does. You appear to believe that, in the most round about convoluted way possible, Whis saying that they have gotten stronger but they are still a tree to the "level of the Gods" being the castle, you somehow twist this into somehow meaning "Yeah so Goku got weaker and lost the God boost he had against Beerus." This is obviously not how the dialogue is intended and would be the most ridiculous way to say that Goku had gotten weaker for his SSJ to no longer be equal/stronger than SSG. If they intended to say that Goku doesn't have the same power he had against Beerus where SSJ~SSG he would have said it plainly.

All is meant by this line is that Goku and Vegeta may have gotten stronger, but they are still nowhere close to the Gods of Destruction. That's literlly all it means. See how that interpretation isn't convoluted and loosely derived from the actual verbatim of the line? This line saying that they are far from the level of GoDs is corroborated when Goku achieves a new form, trains for 3 years in the ROSAT, uses Kaioken x10, gets 10x stronger, uses Kaiokenx20 on top of SSB and is STILL weaker than Beerus. The rest of the show reinforces just how enormous the gap is between SSG Goku BoG and Beerus.(And for that matter Goku/Vegeta during their training and Beerus.)

Quote:
 
And there isn't anything of relevance in the section of your post talking about UI. UI Goku at no point was stated to be Beerus' equal. I already know about the pamphlet you're talking about. That isn't even a matter of interpretation. It literally does not say what you're claiming it does and this comes from your confirmation bias.


Completed Ultra Instinct is stronger than Beerus.
SSBKKx20 is weaker than Beerus.

Both of these things are clear as day in the anime and cannot really be disputed especially since Whis literally explains this to the audience in that Jiren is stronger than GoDs but he is bested by CUI Goku. A logical deduction from these two statements is that UI Omen is on the level of Beerus/GoDs. This logical reduction is confirmed in an official magazine. No matter how much you want to deny it, it is an official source that states it.

@FinaleSaint. Yeah pretty much. SSJ4 seems stronger since Goku's base in GT is way beyond his Buu saga counterpart/
Edited by PF18, Jul 6 2018, 06:53 PM.
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Member Avatar


You're assuming that Beerus lied about Vegeta. You're reasons for assuming it's a lie is again based on assumptions. I don't need to "try to make it work". The story says what it says.
He used 10% against Vegeta and powered up against Goku whom had reached the level of the Gods, but lied when he said he used his full strength.
That's it. So this idea that the SSB saiyans are some ridiculously small percentage of Beerus' power is once again, lunacy that isn't corroborated by the story.

None of what you said about the movie and the anime being different is supported or relevant. It has nothing to do with my point.

And no, Whis' quote is explicit and it isn't convoluted. "Level of the Gods" is used to refer to Goku's power during BOG and it is used to refer to the Gods of Destruction. This is reinforced in the manga with Iwne stating that SSJG Goku vs Toppo was on the level of the Gods just like during BOG. Whis' statement encompasses whatever is on the level of the Gods as stated and since post-BOG Goku is not on that level, he is not as strong as Super Saiyan God. It's literally that simple.

Nowhere is UI Goku in any incarnation stated to be equal to Beerus and nowhere is Kaioken Goku stated to be physically weaker than Beerus especially when Vegeta overpowered a God of Destruction and he's shown to be relative to Goku outside of UI. There is no "logical reduction". The only way you're formulating an argument is lying about what the sources are saying. Your arguments have no merit. Never did and never will if you keep trying to dodge dialogue that isn't convenient to your stance.
Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Jul 6 2018, 07:45 PM.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PF18
Default Avatar


Quote:
 
You're assuming that Beerus lied about Vegeta. You're reasons for assuming it's a lie is again based on assumptions. I don't need to "try to make it work". The story says what it says.
He used 10% against Vegeta and powered up against Goku whom had reached the level of the Gods, but lied when he said he used his full strength.
That's it. So this idea that the SSB saiyans are some ridiculously small percentage of Beerus' power is once again, lunacy that isn't corroborated by the story.


Ok so we are gonna go with your strange tendency to mix and match the anime and movies then? Alright so to be clear:

Beerus actually used 10% against Rage Vegeta
Super Saiyan God is still 60% of Beerus
SSB is still weaker than Beerus despite the previous two somehow?

Quote:
 
None of what you said about the movie and the anime being different is supported or relevant. It has nothing to do with my point.


Ok so to be clear, I just went into detail about the differences between the anime and movie, but these differences aren't supported because you said so and no other reason? Essentially "It isn't supported because I said so." Alright great.

yeah you are right it is irrelevant but you are the one that brought it up in the first place.

Quote:
 
And no, Whis' quote is explicit and it isn't convoluted. "Level of the Gods" is used to refer to Goku's power during BOG and it is used to refer to the Gods of Destruction. This is reinforced in the manga with Iwne stating that SSJG Goku vs Toppo was on the level of the Gods just like during BOG. Whis' statement encompasses whatever is on the level of the Gods as stated and since post-BOG Goku is not on that level, he is not as strong as Super Saiyan God. It's literally that simple.


If Whis was trying to say Goku somehow got weaker he would have said it. He was literally saying the oppisite. He said that Goku and Vegeta have gotten stronger but are still weaker than the level of the GoDs and by a lot.(tree compared to the castle.) The manga handles scaling completely different and not only does that not contradict anything I have said, but it isn't relevant to the anime. Your interpretation is pretty much the definition of a reach since you are trying to say Goku got weaker since he isn't at this "level of the Gods" anymore like he was against Beerus when he had JUST said that Goku/Vegeta had gotten stronger and had been saying that this entire time Goku was there. This premise that Goku got weaker and his SSJ is weaker than SSG is not supported in any way. The "level of the Gods" refers to the Gods of Destruction you keep trying to lump the SSG in there to even though it is exponentially weaker than the GoDS.

Quote:
 
Kaioken Goku stated to be physically weaker than Beerus


What is this distinction between "weaker" and "physically weaker"?? What he's physically stronger but he is still weaker? We are told Goku and Vegeta are weaker than Beerus. We must assume this is still the case until it is stated or shown to be otherwise. We can't just arbitrarily assume that Goku got "physically stronger" than Beerus. Therefore, SSBKKx20 Goku is weaker than Beerus. And since this is the case, there is absolutely no way in hell that SSG Goku from BoG is even close to Beerus's full-power like you are implying.

Quote:
 
Your arguments have no merit.


Alright so more of "I am right because I said so" stuff. Okay great.
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Broly12015
Member Avatar


Goku : 4,000
SSJ: 200,000
SSJ2: 400,000
SSJ3: 1,600,000
SSJG: 8,000,000

Goku: 80,000,000
SSJ: 4,000,000,000
SSJ2: 8,000,000,000
SSJ3: 32,000,000,000
SSJ4: 1,280,000,000,000,000
Ultra Full Power SSJ4: 6,240,000,000,000,000
Broly and Cell For Life
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
StrenuousSpider
Member Avatar


@solid snake.

Ive ot really thought about a stronger ssj4 tge way you do i find it really interesting. Kinda of a completed blue situation but with ssj4 is what im understanding from ya with the syn fight you described. Correct if im wrong tho.
Posted Image




Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Member Avatar


All of the mediums are following the same outline, hence why the 10% statement exists and Beerus needed more power to fight Goku which coincides with him using 70% in the movie. Again, saying that they're telling vastly different stories is something you made up. The mediums supplement each other. SSB isn't multifold stronger than SSJG. That's really all it means.

You stating that the power scale of the movies is different is baseless. There's nothing whatsoever supporting Goku being SSJG level in base in the movie but not in the anime. Period. And you can't quote a source that says that. He isn't as strong as SSJG in either. And this is all disregarding the fact that this never addressed my point in the first place.
Goku's SSJ was as strong as SSJG in the film as well, yet according to you he could've just went SSJ3 and overpowered Beerus. That wasn't possible. His normal Super Saiyan was his full power, just like in Super. So that's another point that solidifies the fact that him even using his higher Super Saiyan forms means that the Super Saiyan from BOG and the one he uses now aren't the same, even outside of Whis' clear cut statement. Your speculation about the ROF film is completely irrelevant.

Level of the Gods doesn't just refer to Gods of Destruction. Otherwise it wouldn't be used to refer to SSJG. There's really nothing you can do to get around such an explicit statement. It was stated that Goku and Vegeta had gotten stronger since they got there. Not seeing how that disproves Goku being stated to not be at the level of the Gods which SSJG was placed at.

As for the last section, Vegeta was physically stronger than Toppo but needed Final Explosion to beat him. He wouldn't have won without it by his own admission since it's the only attack in his arsenal that Toppo wouldn't have been able to erase. That's the distinction between being only "physically weaker" and being overall "weaker". Nothing implies that Kaioken Goku is physically weaker and Beerus and Whis' reactions to it in the U6 arc don't corroborate it being nowhere near Beerus. And it doesn't gel with Kaioken being something that Goku deemed effective against Beerus if it was in reality nowhere near his strength. Would Goku beat a God of Destruction prior to UI? When you take all of their abilities into account, no he can't.
Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Jul 6 2018, 08:46 PM.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PF18
Default Avatar


Quote:
 
All of the mediums are following the same outline, hence why the 10% statement exists and Beerus needed more power to fight Goku which coincides with him using 70% in the movie. Again, saying that they're telling vastly different stories is something you made up. The mediums supplement each other. SSB isn't multifold stronger than SSJG. That's really all it means.


They do not supplement each other. That is ridiculous. The movies are a standalone product that occurred without the entire rest of the series in mind. If the movies were meant to be a part of the DBS continuity why tf would they make these two arcs again? That makes absolutely no sense. They were made to explain things and make changes so that the following story points would make sense. In the DBS arcs:

-The 70% line was removed
-The scene where Goku re-achives SSG was removed
-The idea of "Saiyan Beyond God" was removed
-The line about Goku and Vegeta being able to team up and beat Beerus was removed(aka they aren't strong enough to do that in the DBS continuity.)

Why would these things change if the movies are still relevant to DBS? Why in the world would they change these power scaling things? If we are going by the movies and the supplementary material for it, then SSG-> SSB MUST be at the very most a 60% increase over SSG. That is insane. There's no indication in the DBS anime that it isn't a multifold boost. How would this make any sense with what we see in the ToP? Why would Goku ever use the SSB state if it only yielded a 60% boost but has stamina problems when compared to SSG? How would it make sense for:

Base Kefla beats SSG Goku, then Kefla goes SSJ and Goku goes SSB, and they fight evenly at first before, as stated by everyone Kefla is gaining boosts during the fight and eventually overpowers SSB. Had SSB been a less than 2x boost the transformation from SSG->SSB would have meant nothing and Kefla would have instantly destroyed him and gotten additional boosts ON TOP OF THAT.

Quote:
 
There's nothing whatsoever supporting Goku being SSJG level in base in the movie but not in the anime. Period.


The promotional material states and the movie implies that SSG~SBG and I have already discussed at length why this is no longer the case in the anime.

Quote:
 
He isn't as strong as SSJG in either.


This is factually incorrect. The name of the base in the movies is llterally named "Saiyan Beyond God"

Quote:
 
Goku's SSJ was as strong as SSJG in the film as well, yet according to you he could've just went SSJ3 and overpowered Beerus.


No, not according to me. I never said that. And in the movie the scaling is different and had he gone SSJ2 he would have overpowered Beerus and in the anime he's not close to Beerus so it makes no difference.

But all of this is completely irrelevant since I never made that argument in the first place.

The next paragraph just isn't worth addressing.

Quote:
 
As for the last section, Vegeta was physically stronger than Toppo but needed Final Explosion to beat him. He wouldn't have won without it by his own admission since it's the only attack in his arsenal that Toppo wouldn't have been able to erase. That's the distinction between being only "physically weaker" and being overall "weaker". Nothing implies that Kaioken Goku is physically weaker and Beerus and Whis' reactions to it in the U6 arc don't corroborate it being nowhere near Beerus. And it doesn't gel with Kaioken being something that Goku deemed effective against Beerus if it was in reality nowhere near his strength. Would Goku beat a God of Destruction prior to UI? When you take all of their abilities into account, no he can't.


So, to be clear, despite absolutely no implication whatsoever by any character or anything whatsoever, we are to assume that SSBKK is "physically stronger" than Beerus but would still lose? ...even though no character never stated or implied such a thing at any point? What?? For that matter assuming GoD Toppo~Beerus is also Baseless. It doesn't at all corroborate with what is said in the supplementary material.If his SSB form is just below him in strength like if have been implying, then using KKx20 would give him an almost 20x advantage. If you think he couldn't win with an almost 20x advantage I don't know what to tell you.
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Member Avatar


Are you being intentionally obtuse? The 10% statement corroborates what was said in the movies. This is yet another case of you disregarding dialogue you don't like. The 10% statement means that SSJG Goku was factually stronger than Beerus' 10% since he needed to power up from the level he used to beat Vegeta. The movies being standalone means nothing. The show and manga followed the same outline for the events.

Goku and Vegeta had not yet reach the level that Goku was at during BOG as stated by Whis when the statement about them not being able to fight Beerus was made. They already had SSB in the movie at the time of that statement. Your points are all over the place and have little relevance to anything. All you're doing is making up reasons for every single little statement not being retained. Your explanations aren't factual or even supported by anything.

The rest of the nonsense you spewed is irrelevant and Whis' statement makes everything clear, unless you once again try to give it a meaning other than what it actually says.

Claiming that Toppo is weaker than Beerus is baseless and that has nothing to do with my point anyway. Vegeta couldn't win in the same exact scenario you're talking about without Final Explosion. So it has nothing to do with what I said. It's what the story shows. No supplementary material implies that Beerus is stronger than Toppo. That pamphlet you keep bringing up doesn't say anything about Beerus being as strong as UI Goku, no matter how much you want to believe it does.
Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Jul 6 2018, 09:54 PM.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
FayeTimidea
Member Avatar


SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Jul 6 2018, 09:53 PM
Are you being intentionally obtuse?

The movies being standalone means nothing.

The show and manga followed the same outline for the events.

Your explanations aren't factual or even supported by anything.

The rest of the nonsense you spewed

That pamphlet you keep bringing up doesn't say anything about Beerus being as strong as UI Goku, no matter how much you want to believe it does.
I suggest you calm down before I just get this thread locked on account of your inability to be civil.

Yes, it does mean something. They're completely separate entities and hold no ground in the main timeline.

The same outline, yes, but not the same outline for the movie. The outlines for DBS were specifically written for DBS.

Yes they are, you're just refusing to believe anything he says.

Chill.

Then post the damn pamphlet yourself and prove that.
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PF18
Default Avatar


Quote:
 
Are you being intentionally obtuse?


Lol

Quote:
 
The 10% statement corroborates what was said in the movies. This is yet another case of you disregarding dialogue you don't like. The 10% statement means that SSJG Goku was factually stronger than Beerus' 10% since he needed to power up from the level he used to beat Vegeta. The movies being standalone means nothing. The show and manga followed the same outline for the events.


Regardless, this "mix and match" method by which you use is irrational. Each of them are their own entity with their own differences. DBS purposely took out the line about Beerus using 70% of his power. That is completely irrelevant to DBS. The writers realize that everyone else realizes that, but for some reason you don't. This is puzzling to say the least. Neither of those lines make sense in the DBS continuity.

Quote:
 
Your points are all over the place and have little relevance to anything. All you're doing is making up reasons for every single little statement not being retained. Your explanations aren't factual or even supported by anything.


Lol this is comical at this point. You literally spend 3 sentences not refuting anything of mine whatsoever but rather just insulting me.

Quote:
 
The rest of the nonsense you spewed is irrelevant and Whis' statement makes everything clear,



*Doesn't refute anything*

"it's nonsense!" and "It is irrelevant because I said so!"

Quote:
 
Claiming that Toppo is weaker than Beerus is baseless and that has nothing to do with my point anyway.


actually yeah it has everything to do with it since we were discussing where Beerus stands and you attempted to use Toppo as a defense.

Quote:
 
No supplementary material implies that Beerus is stronger than Toppo.


You had JUST said that Toppo and Beerus had nothing to do with your point.

Quote:
 
That pamphlet you keep bringing up doesn't say anything about Beerus being as strong as UI Goku, no matter how much you want to believe it does.


I mean it's an official magazine not a pamphlet and it says exactly what I described.

Ok this is just getting ridiculous. You "refute" most of my points by just saying "that's irrelevant" or "that has nothing to do with my point" aside from both statements meaning the same thing, you just kinda alternate between these statements without actually explaining why these are irrelevant. Most of this boils down to you saying that I am "baseless" without actually refuting anything whatsoever, I mean a huge chunk of your posts are just insulting me rather than attacking my argument.

Overall, your viewpoint, takes statements completely out of context, ignores many other statements, takes things too literally, and contradicts most of the story. Frankly, this is just getting irritating since you have no idea how to discuss anything without immediately becoming hostile. You have proven this time and time again and at this point I'm done discussing your ridiculous "contributions." I am done here.

Quote:
 
The outlines for DBS were specifically written for DBS.


Exactly. He doesn't seem to understand this.
Edited by PF18, Jul 6 2018, 10:41 PM.
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Member Avatar


"The line stated in DBS doesn't make sense in DBS."
This is you again, trying to avoid the meaning of the dialogue.
When all of the mediums are telling the exact same narrative, there's no reason they can't be used since they follow the same outline.

Where Toppo stands compared to Beerus had nothing to do with my point. Again this is a fault in your comprehension. You're the one that brought it up in the first place. The only point I made was that being physically stronger doesn't mean that Goku could win without UI since Vegeta couldn't beat Toppo without Final Explosion.

If you're saying that the magazine states that Beerus is equal to UI Goku, then I don't know what to say. You'll lie about an article that doesn't even have the word "equal" in it, yet deny the meaning of statements that have a clear dictionary definition.

Not only this point, but you've tried to pull this nonsense on multiple forums to only get shot down. Keep on claiming that the dialogue in the story doesn't actually mean what it says. It's entertaining to watch you jump through hoops like you always do.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
superperfectnerd
Member Avatar


SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Jul 6 2018, 08:39 PM
All of the mediums are following the same outline, hence why the 10% statement exists and Beerus needed more power to fight Goku which coincides with him using 70% in the movie. Again, saying that they're telling vastly different stories is something you made up. The mediums supplement each other. SSB isn't multifold stronger than SSJG. That's really all it means.

You stating that the power scale of the movies is different is baseless. There's nothing whatsoever supporting Goku being SSJG level in base in the movie but not in the anime. Period. And you can't quote a source that says that. He isn't as strong as SSJG in either. And this is all disregarding the fact that this never addressed my point in the first place.
Goku's SSJ was as strong as SSJG in the film as well, yet according to you he could've just went SSJ3 and overpowered Beerus. That wasn't possible. His normal Super Saiyan was his full power, just like in Super. So that's another point that solidifies the fact that him even using his higher Super Saiyan forms means that the Super Saiyan from BOG and the one he uses now aren't the same, even outside of Whis' clear cut statement. Your speculation about the ROF film is completely irrelevant.

Level of the Gods doesn't just refer to Gods of Destruction. Otherwise it wouldn't be used to refer to SSJG. There's really nothing you can do to get around such an explicit statement. It was stated that Goku and Vegeta had gotten stronger since they got there. Not seeing how that disproves Goku being stated to not be at the level of the Gods which SSJG was placed at.

As for the last section, Vegeta was physically stronger than Toppo but needed Final Explosion to beat him. He wouldn't have won without it by his own admission since it's the only attack in his arsenal that Toppo wouldn't have been able to erase. That's the distinction between being only "physically weaker" and being overall "weaker". Nothing implies that Kaioken Goku is physically weaker and Beerus and Whis' reactions to it in the U6 arc don't corroborate it being nowhere near Beerus. And it doesn't gel with Kaioken being something that Goku deemed effective against Beerus if it was in reality nowhere near his strength. Would Goku beat a God of Destruction prior to UI? When you take all of their abilities into account, no he can't.
Why is Vegetto blue upon his appearance the first time anyone says "he might be stronger than Beerus."

Is kaioken blue Goku physically stronger than Vegetto?

I agree that the intention of Vegeta using the final explosion was probably because Toppo could erase his energy attacks but the show really rushed and did a bad job showing it didn't they? I mean Vegeta was punching Toppo around and this is a tournament... you know... with a ring out option. Vegeta had already shown that Toppo couldn't erase his face punches.

Also, Vegeta needing that attack to do that to Toppo, doesn't mean Beerus was weaker and would win by erasing Goku's attacks? How would Goku even know during the universe 6 arc that Beerus can do that? Even if he could, does Goku seem like the type of dude to you that would see a kind of attack from someone he knows he can take in a straight up fight and think "nope, I'm not even going to have a friendly tangle with that opponent, I'm too scared of possibly having my Kamehameha erased and it not working!" How would he know and why wouldn't he try? He wants a rematch with Beerus doesn't he?

What you're implying that the writers are implying here is Goku... that's Goku... is too scared to fight Beerus but is stronger than him... because Beerus has some technique... that I don't think Goku has even seen at this point in time....
Edited by superperfectnerd, Jul 6 2018, 11:01 PM.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Member Avatar


Vegito was the first person in the manga to surpass Beerus.

No Kaioken Goku isn't stronger than Vegito.

Goku already knows that Beerus has the ability to erase things with Destruction Energy. He used it in their fight. Just like Vegeta needed Final Explosion to combat Toppo's Destruction Energy, Goku would need something like that for Beerus. But he doesn't have anything like that. I'm not seeing the problem with the Gods of Destruction being stronger than Goku without UI due to their Destruction Energy.
Goku vs a God of Destruction at least in the anime would be an actual fight, not the nonsensical finger flick stomp that people are claiming they can do.

Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
0 users reading this topic
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Fully Featured & Customizable Free Forums
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Dragon Ball Versus · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 5

Theme Designed by McKee91