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| Why does God allow children to die? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 5 2018, 08:35 PM (1,360 Views) | |
| + Clearin | Jul 6 2018, 11:49 AM Post #16 |
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If a God does exist then the idea of holding him to the same morals and standards to an average human would be pretty insane. It would be something far beyond our minds were capable of understanding. Also just because an evil person gets no karma on Earth, I think the supposed eternity in hell more than makes up for that. |
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| Topographic Oceans | Jul 6 2018, 12:25 PM Post #17 |
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Yeah, a lot of the problems with religion/God-related discussions on DBZF stem from people imagining God/the concept of God as "guy with super-powers". |
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| Bad User | Jul 6 2018, 03:32 PM Post #18 |
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Right. If we're going to talk about the Christian god, we should talk to another level of morality, like genocide, infanticide, misogynism, rape, incest etc. And denying this is not just disregarding 'the big bad Atheist', but also one of the greatest pillars of Christianity, the Old Testament.
Just because you can't understand it but still wish to believe in it, doesn't make it true. As long as it doesn't have solid proof, what benefits you and holds truth value for you, doesn't mean it does for everybody in this world. But turning it into a valid point in a conversation, now that would be truly insane.
That's all you extrapolated from our arguments? Problems stem from poor and improper argumentation. 'I believe in it.' = 'It's true.' 'Atheists try to come with logically and/or scientifically proved points of view, but they are against what I want to believe in, myself, so they are wrong by default.' God is proven to commit atrocities in Bible and not only - 'But this is all just some plan we can't understand, but it's certainly a plan' ~ 'God is not like that, he works in ways we cannot understand but he's still good and loving' ~ 'All those atrocities do serve to something better, what exactly, we don't know yet' ~ 'If an innocent child is brutalized, it is definitely because his parents, ancestors, homo erectus, or even himself in some other life did something bad, so the kid definitely deserves it'. Any real proof to claim all that? Edited by Bad User, Jul 6 2018, 07:06 PM.
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| + Steve | Jul 6 2018, 06:41 PM Post #19 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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And it's not insane to hold the morals it places upon us because...? If it's not going to do it and will literally kill millions of people for silly reasons then God is massive hypocrite not worthy of our respect. Just as we can create children that doesn't automatically mean we're good parents. "Oh but we can't understand God" just makes having any sort of faith in it all the more questionable really, how can you possibly understand whether or not it gives a damn or will actually reward your faith in any way when it switches between malevolent and benevolent at random based on only what it wants to do? The title of this should be "Why do we worship a God that lets children die" because yes, why do we? I'd sooner trust Hitler to invite me for a nice warm shower. It's called faith but considering the many awful actions of God I'd say it's more along the lines of hope. After all, we don't understand God, what reason do we have really to believe in any eternal paradise? Hell for everyone, his creations he screwed up and put the blame on. We might not be able to understand God but if the info on it out there is true then God is kind of an idiot in the way it operates. |
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| PF18 | Jul 6 2018, 08:19 PM Post #20 |
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Well he doesn't intervene because he doesn't exist. It is hard to do things when you don't exist. |
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| + Steve | Jul 6 2018, 08:29 PM Post #21 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Deep discussion my dude. I don't believe God exists either, not to any of our understanding at least, but to argue hypothetically. |
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| highwaysaiyan | Jul 6 2018, 10:51 PM Post #22 |
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1. dont think god is equal to humans in anyway. god doesnt see humans as something with any kind of worth. god is a being beyond our ability to understand. 2. even if god would see humans as worthy for anything, he wouldnt treat children differently than dictators. in the bible he rained fire above cities and killed millions of any age, gender and position in society. 3. and most importantly, god doesnt give gifts. god doesnt help those who wont help themselves. god rewards. and if humans kill/enslave/abandon humans, dont blame god. blame humans. if humanity tried to help eachother and keep balance in nature instead of be selfless and greedy, humanity would be in much better shape then it is now. but that is the nature of humans- self-destruction and adaptability (to the new and worse situation created by humans themselves) Edited by highwaysaiyan, Jul 6 2018, 10:54 PM.
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| highwaysaiyan | Jul 6 2018, 11:00 PM Post #23 |
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how can you claim that in such certainty ? there is neither any real claim for why or how god exists or not. we have YET to understand god fully. one day, maybe but not today. actually there are more claims for god existence than not (but still not backed by hard evidence). take for example the creation of the universe. while there are many theories out there how it was created, all lead to one problem- where it all started and the only possible thing we can think of is god. that is why im agnostic. Edited by highwaysaiyan, Jul 6 2018, 11:03 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Jul 7 2018, 03:00 AM Post #24 |
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I think something to think about is sin is because of humans. Sin leads to more sin. It all started with the apple Why does god allow children to die? Well clearin said it well imo. To us it sounds terrible but we're supposed to trust God has a plan and we can't comprehend it and his ways of doing things |
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| PF18 | Jul 7 2018, 03:43 AM Post #25 |
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To me, one of three things are going on: 1. God is all-powerful and has the ability to prevent things like this but chooses not to. 2. He doesn't exist 3. "God" exists but is not all-powerful and does not have the power to prevent every child from dying or similar things. |
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| Topographic Oceans | Jul 7 2018, 03:57 AM Post #26 |
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I'm no theologist or philosophy expert (neither is anyone in this thread--none of us here are even vaguely qualified to be discussing this subject, but I'll take a shot anyway) but I don't think people should imagine "God" as if he was Goku or Superman. Thinking of God as just another organism amongst many, an organism which just so happens to have magical super-powers but is otherwise not unlike other lifeforms (and is treated as a physical being with very human-like modes of behavior instead of something metaphysical) strikes me as antithetical to the very concept of God. Edited by Topographic Oceans, Jul 7 2018, 04:02 AM.
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| PF18 | Jul 7 2018, 05:09 AM Post #27 |
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Nobody is thinking of them as something like "Goku or Superman." God created us all right? God allowed for all life to thrive and is the reason that light exists and what not? God has a level of control over humans and that is what I mean when I say "all-powerful" Whether he be a physical entity or an entity that is among us and doesn't encompass a physical body at all, that is what I mean. If he isn't "all-powerful" and influence the lives of humans on a huge scale, then he isn't truly a god to me |
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| + Steve | Jul 7 2018, 08:56 AM Post #28 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Deep and all but that still doesn't explain the logic behind letting a baby be born with leukemia. It has literally done nothing in it's life you could even remotely call sinful. You could say it's the parents fault for being sinners but that's still stupid, give them leukemia. And if that's the case, why does God pick and choose? Let's face it, virtually everyone on the planet sins so if God has a hand in this at all he just punishes people at random. And if God doesn't have a hand in it...why give a damn about God at all? It doesn't do anything to or for is in that case. In a world where God exists the only reasonable conclusions I can come to are: A) God simply stopped caring and abandoned us long ago B) God never cared at all C) God is, by all ways in which we can measure, evil |
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| + Son-Goku | Jul 7 2018, 02:48 PM Post #29 |
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孫悟空
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I was find it ironic how when people decide to pretend God is real they just point their fingers at him and claim he's turned his back on the rest of the world, when their backs are completely turned to God. Can you be more hypocritical? I'm no theologian, as Topographic said, none of us are. But while we may not understand why some children die or have diseases, we do know that God doesn't cause it. He is not a God of sickness and evil, none of that is from him. Everything negative is caused by mankind and Satan. It may not make sense why some prayers are answered and a miracle is performed, while others aren't. I think one day we'll understand. You can say that's just an excuse, but really it's a fact. Another thing, yes there is so much pain and suffering in this world. Why doesn't God just take us away from here? Why doesn't he stop those from doing evil? Well, those evil people he died for just like everyone else. They have free will like everyone else and they have chances in life to not go down that road. And God will take us from here someday. Anyways, I wasn't going to post in this thread. But it's hard not to when I see negative things being said about my Father. Which genuinely hurts. |
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| Tinny | Jul 7 2018, 04:02 PM Post #30 |
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Playing devil's advocate here, but isn't Satan trapped in hell? What is he capable of that God can't stop? And how does mankind get their eyes eaten by ants, or struck by lightning, or given disease in all manner of things or find their homes falling away into the sea (actually that one is us and our insistance on fossils fuels)? And if you think God turned his back on you, wouldn't it be natural to do the same in turn? How is it hypocritical exactly? Edit: Actually I should also try playing devil's advocate for the other side. The answer is usually gonna be "ask your local priest" because every religion has it's own view of why things happen. One is that God is akin to a clockmaker, who has made the world, and let it work, another is that we have always existed. In heaven. With God. Then we go down to be tested, choosing to go through this, so most of the hardships are things you likely saw coming and decided you could go for, so if you wonder why this thing happens... Ask the guy who decided they could handle this (that is to say, you) ![]() And it should be noted that often, when compared to absolute bliss for the rest of eternity, even the most horrific of situations can seem small and petty compared to the reward of heaven. tangent
Edited by Tinny, Jul 7 2018, 04:15 PM.
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