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Is excessive plastic surgery ethical?
Topic Started: Jun 23 2018, 08:26 PM (595 Views)
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Specifically when people are pretty much "addicted" to it or very clearly suffer severe self esteem issues and feel the need to "fix" themselves with it.

"it's their money" and all but from a medical standpoint I feel like it's not at all ethical to allow people to do that, it's just enabling quite destructive behaviour and further than that it also encourages other insecure people to feel the same, thinking they need surgery because they're ugly.

I'm really not sure why it's still allowed, obviously realistically speaking, money but has it never been called in to question how damaging all this is?


Personally I think it's all stupid unless someone has been deformed by illness or injury. All these celebrities with a** implants and puffy lips look utterly ridiculous, not a single one of them looks better and certainly not when they get older.
More and more people have depression and self esteem issues these days.
I do wonder how much stuff like this adds to that since it destroys "Be happy with what you've got" messages.
You can't walk through a magazine column without seeing something about this celeb's new nose or new boobs.
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I agree it's unethical but the thing is unless the surgeon botches the procedure, it isn't doing any harm. If anything it acts as a sort of therapy for those with self esteem issues. And because cosmetic surgery is for the most part a business, they can't afford to turn away clients for ethical reasons only to have them go straight to their competitors who will do the operation.

They're between a rock and a hard place.


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Is it unethical to give people full body tattoos?

Is it unethical to give someone piercings all over?

Is it unethical perform sex reassignment surgery?

I don't think so. I think it's actually unethical to try and control what other people do with their bodies just because you disagree.

Only way it becomes unethical is if they're suffering from intoxication or are somehow mentally unsound.
Edited by Dingo, Jun 23 2018, 08:56 PM.
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Pelador
Jun 23 2018, 08:40 PM
I agree it's unethical but the thing is unless the surgeon botches the procedure, it isn't doing any harm. If anything it acts as a sort of therapy for those with self esteem issues. And because cosmetic surgery is for the most part a business, they can't afford to turn away clients for ethical reasons only to have them go straight to their competitors who will do the operation.

They're between a rock and a hard place.
But it's such a stupid form of "therapy" the easy way out is never the good one, this doesn't teach anyone to feel better about themselves and it just encourages people to look "perfect" look at all the crazies that go super far with it like the human Ken doll, that dude needs psychological help, it's pretty clear.


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Only way it becomes unethical is if they're suffering from intoxication or are someone mentally unsound.


Which is what most of the excessive ones sound like, someone who wants to have horns and elf ears because they genuinely think they're a fantasy creature needs help, not surgery.

Gender re-assignment surgey is entirely different.
Tattoos and piercings are far more niche and aren't glorified to the same extent, people think that's weird but plastic surgery has built up this idea of paying for the "ideal" body rather than working for it or accepting yourself.

That's just not healthy and is obviously going to be a massively bad influence for younger generations which is a large part in why I say it's unethical. We already have teenage girls starving themselves because they feel pressured to look like models. Encouraging them to get cut open and sliced up is just wrong.
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I think it's unethical, yes, because the money you spend on that stuff can be better used elsewhere. In all honesty, it's a really stupid decision unless there's a medical reason behind it.
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My initial answer = No, it is not unethical.

I'm going to assume that this is just about cosmetic plastic surgery and not plastic surgery for people who has severe burns on their face for example.

I think you have to define excessive before calling it unethical. Doctors are concerned with the physical health of their patients and as long as they don't cause physical damage to their patient, they won't see their actions as unethical. There is also the perspective that people should have the free will to do as they please (within social and ethical boundaries *wink*). Plastic surgery allows people to present themselves to the world in a way that they have control over (I like the comparison to tattoos Dingo). Plastic surgery generally is not the root cause of mental illness (anxiety, depression, etc), which also complicates making it unethical.
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Saying people should do as they please in this scenario just smells like not looking at the bigger picture to me.
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Jun 24 2018, 01:05 AM
Saying people should do as they please in this scenario just smells like not looking at the bigger picture to me.
I just don't like the idea of the state being our baby sitters. A lot of freedoms can be lost trying to force society to meet your ideala.

Anyway, there are legal systems in place so any doctors who act in an irresponsible way can and will be held accountable.

Do you have any specific cases in mind? The majority of plastic surgeries are ethical. I don't think it's fair to point out one or two strange cases and them demonize the entire industry. What is your proposed solution?

If it's just about "the children" is photo editing ethical? Good looking video game characters? Anime girls?
Edited by Dingo, Jun 24 2018, 02:10 AM.
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I don't think I can agree with it being ethical. But the point about it being similar to what Dingo mentioned earlier is definitely true. If this is going to get called out, then those other things should be too. It's honestly no different.
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Dingo
Jun 24 2018, 01:54 AM
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Jun 24 2018, 01:05 AM
Saying people should do as they please in this scenario just smells like not looking at the bigger picture to me.
I just don't like the idea of the state being our baby sitters. A lot of freedoms can be lost trying to force society to meet your ideala.

Anyway, there are legal systems in place so any doctors who act in an irresponsible way can and will be held accountable.

Do you have any specific cases in mind? The majority of plastic surgeries are ethical. I don't think it's fair to point out one or two strange cases and them demonize the entire industry. What is your proposed solution?

If it's just about "the children" is photo editing ethical? Good looking video game characters? Anime girls?
For me it's not about any specific cases. It's about the industry in general. Moreso, the money people waste on this that could be put to better use.
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Jun 24 2018, 03:12 AM
Dingo
Jun 24 2018, 01:54 AM
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Jun 24 2018, 01:05 AM
Saying people should do as they please in this scenario just smells like not looking at the bigger picture to me.
I just don't like the idea of the state being our baby sitters. A lot of freedoms can be lost trying to force society to meet your ideala.

Anyway, there are legal systems in place so any doctors who act in an irresponsible way can and will be held accountable.

Do you have any specific cases in mind? The majority of plastic surgeries are ethical. I don't think it's fair to point out one or two strange cases and them demonize the entire industry. What is your proposed solution?

If it's just about "the children" is photo editing ethical? Good looking video game characters? Anime girls?
For me it's not about any specific cases. It's about the industry in general. Moreso, the money people waste on this that could be put to better use.
But:

1) The doctor pays income tax on money earned from these procedures.

2) There is often sales tax involved in these transactions.

3) The doctor takes what remains and will use it to spend money elsewhere or donate to charities.


The money isn't being burned it's just flowing to someone else. (And the government gets a cut.)
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That's great and all, but thr person in question could use the money for something more practical.
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Like what?
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

It's ethical. Why? Because people should be free to choose to modify their body.

However, I guess it's a bit of a gray area when it comes to "doing no harm". A plastic surgeon should refuse to do any surgery that could almost certainly jeopardize the patients' health. Beyond that, though, it's simple freedom of choice. As long as the plastic surgery doesn't endanger someone, it should be fine, even if we don't approve of the image they're going for and consider it "excessive". The term excessive as it relates to plastic surgery should be left to medical professionals. Obviously there is a conflict of interest, but, well, that's what the courts are for. And I'm willing to bet there are surgeries that plastic surgeons would usually outright refuse to do, because of the risk.

Anyway, I'm gonna move this to Deep Discussion since it's actually a pretty interesting topic of discussion and worth a good-spirited debate, in my opinion. :D
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

For what entails as "excessive" I would say these celebrities that constantly have surgery to change parts of themselves is certainly so, a few surgeries is okay but when people are basically morphing their whole body to meet some sort of ideal beauty standard then that's definitely troubling, since most of them put out their image to the world an encourage other people to think that's what beauty is.

When we have people thinking they need to be sliced up to be accepted by society I would say we have certainly went wrong somewhere.


As for the other things like Photoshop, I would say those are unethical too just I didn't make the topic about them thus didn't want to bog it down but yeah, anything that manipulates people in to a particular vision like this is bad in my opinion.
Mentally it's not a healthy place to be, to think you can only be pretty through a camera or going under the knife.
I don't care if people have "free will" it's no different than dangling drugs in front of an ex addict and claiming no responsibility in them getting addicted again. Pressure is a powerful thing, it's easy to see how people could feel coerced in to being beautiful. The "Keeping up with the Joneses" effect.


To get it out of the way, this is obviously a problem that affects women more than men.
Not saying everything on this is 100% fact but just for reference https://www.bbc.com/news/education-37543769
I'm sure we've all noticed a change in women/girls over the past decade or so, I sure have. Years ago girls would just be girls, now as soon as they're like 12 they're wearing make up and becoming self conscious about themselves. They're so desperate to become adults and be pretty.

This isn't an adult problem, adults are certainly able to make their dumb decisions(regardless of how unethical I think it is to be an enabler) but children being manipulated by society over years to think they're ugly is just wrong.
And while I've mentioned celebrities a few times, make no mistake I understand a lot of them must feel this pressure too especially since camera's are constantly pointing at them, it's all over magazines whenever they're having a down day with dark circles and ragged hair, people never stop talking about their appearance but regardless whenever they do go under the knife everyone knows about it and it becomes a more and more tantalizing prospect.


I completely disagree with the notion that "People should be able to do whatever they want" why?
Some people are basically abused down certain paths or are easily lead, how is it fair to just let them destroy themselves to the detriment of their physical and mental health as well as to influence others by example?
And the already mentally ill, just screw people who genuinely can't control themselves I guess.

A society that just ignores and even encourages struggling citizens is failing it's people if you ask me.
That kind of attitude is just asking for problems, it helps nobody. Except people looking to make money off of that ideal.

If that's how a society ought to operate then we might as well have neon signs advertising unregulated heroin and whatnot above our hospitals, children and addicts welcome.
Edited by Steve, Jun 24 2018, 09:21 AM.
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