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SSJ3 Kefla vs Limits Broken Jiren
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Topic Started: Jun 20 2018, 08:03 PM (1,582 Views)
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+ Pyrus
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Jun 20 2018, 09:21 PM
Post #16
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- Emmeth
- Jun 20 2018, 09:12 PM
- Pyrus
- Jun 20 2018, 09:04 PM
Cell Games Gohan beats Vegeta after a very tough fight.
 - “Vegeta so stronk, herpderp stronger than Gohan against Cell now, herpiderp derp!”
He does become that stronk, after getting stronker from Babbs. 
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+ Emmeth
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Jun 20 2018, 09:23 PM
Post #17
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I ♥ Yoeri
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- Pyrus
- Jun 20 2018, 09:21 PM
- Emmeth
- Jun 20 2018, 09:12 PM
- Pyrus
- Jun 20 2018, 09:04 PM
Cell Games Gohan beats Vegeta after a very tough fight.
- “Vegeta so stronk, herpderp stronger than Gohan against Cell now, herpiderp derp!”
He does become that stronk, after getting stronker from Babbs.
SSJ2 Vegeta Boo arc can refer to after power-up too. Was it not stated Vegeta kept the power boost he got from Babidi?
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Topographic Oceans
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Jun 20 2018, 09:23 PM
Post #18
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Regarding Kefla vs Jiren, I don't see the big problem with Blanco = 4x Omen. Those numerical gaps are completely arbitrary. In this particular match-up, it's ultimately down to either your personal Battle Power list or who you feel should win. I don't have a list so I just went with Jiren. I might not like the character but his strength seems to be unparalleled outside the realm of the Hakaishin and MUI Goku.
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Topographic Oceans
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Jun 20 2018, 09:24 PM
Post #19
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I was going with pre-Majin Vegeta. 
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+ Emmeth
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Jun 20 2018, 09:24 PM
Post #20
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- Topographic Oceans
- Jun 20 2018, 09:24 PM
I was going with pre-Majin Vegeta.
If that's the case, Gohan wins. I agree.
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+ Pyrus
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Jun 20 2018, 09:25 PM
Post #21
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- Emmeth
- Jun 20 2018, 09:23 PM
- Pyrus
- Jun 20 2018, 09:21 PM
- Emmeth
- Jun 20 2018, 09:12 PM
- Pyrus
- Jun 20 2018, 09:04 PM
Cell Games Gohan beats Vegeta after a very tough fight.
- “Vegeta so stronk, herpderp stronger than Gohan against Cell now, herpiderp derp!”
He does become that stronk, after getting stronker from Babbs.
SSJ2 Vegeta Boo arc can refer to after power-up too. Was it not stated Vegeta kept the power boost he got from Babidi?
No statement, but there's no reason not to believe that's the case. It was his power to begin with, just locked beneath the surface.
- Topographic Oceans
- Jun 20 2018, 09:24 PM
I was going with pre-Majin Vegeta.
You must believe Gohan got an abnormal boost against Cell then. You must.
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Topographic Oceans
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Jun 20 2018, 09:28 PM
Post #22
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I might believe that. I might not.
See, I'm not a Battle Power scientist like you guys, just a hobbyist.
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PF18
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Jun 20 2018, 09:30 PM
Post #23
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- superperfectnerd
- Jun 20 2018, 09:21 PM
Plus Kefla has to have abnormal multipliers to be so strong if ssjg > super Vegetto (at least)
Well no not really. The difference SSG makes was diminished. pre-absorption it was an enormous, astronomical boost over SSJ3. post-absorption, It wasn't really implied to be that large of a difference over SSJ3 at all. Going SSJ3 Goku has a slight advantage against Caulifla/Kale then he goes SSG and he has a significant advantage but the boost is clearly nothing like it was when Goku first did the ritual.
This is just reinforced when we see that potara yielded a larger boost than SSG, when it was stated otherwise in the BoG arc.
Personally, I think things look like this:
Pre-ritual Goku
Base-1
SSJ-50
SSJ2-100
SSJ3-400
SSG-8,000,000
Post-ritual Goku
Base: 180,000
SSJ: 9,000,000
SSJ2: 18,000,000
SSJ3: 72,000,000
SSG: 144,000,000
So the boost from SSJ3->SSG went from 20,000 SSJ3 down to 2x SSJ3 after he absorbed the power
Edited by PF18, Jun 20 2018, 09:32 PM. |
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PF18
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Jun 20 2018, 09:31 PM
Post #24
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- Topographic Oceans
- Jun 20 2018, 09:23 PM
Regarding Kefla vs Jiren, I don't see the big problem with Blanco = 4x Omen. Those numerical gaps are completely arbitrary. In this particular match-up, it's ultimately down to either your personal Battle Power list or who you feel should win. I don't have a list so I just went with Jiren. I might not like the character but his strength seems to be unparalleled outside the realm of the Hakaishin and MUI Goku.
Right. It isn't very cut and dry and it is definitely arbitrary and left to interpretation for the viewer. I just wanted to see people explain their viewpopint a little more.
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+ Emmeth
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Jun 20 2018, 09:34 PM
Post #25
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I think it's nice that it's left so open-ended. It leaves a lot to discussion.
I know people believe Kefla SSJ3 could wreck Jiren, but I think she needs God.
And I know many people consider Jiren and UI Goku stronger than all Hakaishin now, but I still consider Beerus untouchable as of now.
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superperfectnerd
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Jun 20 2018, 10:21 PM
Post #26
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- PF18
- Jun 20 2018, 09:30 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Jun 20 2018, 09:21 PM
Plus Kefla has to have abnormal multipliers to be so strong if ssjg > super Vegetto (at least)
Well no not really. The difference SSG makes was diminished. pre-absorption it was an enormous, astronomical boost over SSJ3. post-absorption, It wasn't really implied to be that large of a difference over SSJ3 at all. Going SSJ3 Goku has a slight advantage against Caulifla/Kale then he goes SSG and he has a significant advantage but the boost is clearly nothing like it was when Goku first did the ritual. This is just reinforced when we see that potara yielded a larger boost than SSG, when it was stated otherwise in the BoG arc. Personally, I think things look like this: Pre-ritual Goku Base-1 SSJ-50 SSJ2-100 SSJ3-400 SSG-8,000,000 Post-ritual Goku Base: 180,000 SSJ: 9,000,000 SSJ2: 18,000,000 SSJ3: 72,000,000 SSG: 144,000,000 So the boost from SSJ3->SSG went from 20,000 SSJ3 down to 2x SSJ3 after he absorbed the power
But then the uni 6 saiyans are ssjg level with no ritual or angel training... and no ssj either? (Before Goku and Vegeta)
How are Goku and Vegeta treated like veteran, experienced saiyans when 2 years prior Cabba could have sneezed in base and wiped out universe 7 whilst Goku was fannying around on King Kai's planet with his base weaker than Freeza?
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PF18
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Jun 20 2018, 10:50 PM
Post #27
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- superperfectnerd
- Jun 20 2018, 10:21 PM
- PF18
- Jun 20 2018, 09:30 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Jun 20 2018, 09:21 PM
Plus Kefla has to have abnormal multipliers to be so strong if ssjg > super Vegetto (at least)
Well no not really. The difference SSG makes was diminished. pre-absorption it was an enormous, astronomical boost over SSJ3. post-absorption, It wasn't really implied to be that large of a difference over SSJ3 at all. Going SSJ3 Goku has a slight advantage against Caulifla/Kale then he goes SSG and he has a significant advantage but the boost is clearly nothing like it was when Goku first did the ritual. This is just reinforced when we see that potara yielded a larger boost than SSG, when it was stated otherwise in the BoG arc. Personally, I think things look like this: Pre-ritual Goku Base-1 SSJ-50 SSJ2-100 SSJ3-400 SSG-8,000,000 Post-ritual Goku Base: 180,000 SSJ: 9,000,000 SSJ2: 18,000,000 SSJ3: 72,000,000 SSG: 144,000,000 So the boost from SSJ3->SSG went from 20,000 SSJ3 down to 2x SSJ3 after he absorbed the power
But then the uni 6 saiyans are ssjg level with no ritual or angel training... and no ssj either? (Before Goku and Vegeta) How are Goku and Vegeta treated like veteran, experienced saiyans when 2 years prior Cabba could have sneezed in base and wiped out universe 7 whilst Goku was fannying around on King Kai's planet with his base weaker than Freeza?
I don't necessarily know why that is the case I just know that it is the case and that is what the story is telling us. In the same way that you can plot data, you know the data but you often don't know why the data is that way.
The Universe 6 Saiyans evolved differently, they have a completely different temperament, and these are the 3 strongest of their race. There's several variables involved and any combination of these variables could be why they are naturally so much stronger.
Why are some robots made on earth strongre than the Galactic Tyrant who blows up planets when he feels like it? I don't know why that is the case I just know that it IS the case.
Also I wouldn't say that they are quite SSG level, but they are close. In the same way that Goku and Vegeta are not quite SSG level in base, but they are close.
Edited by PF18, Jun 20 2018, 10:52 PM. |
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StrenuousSpider
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Jun 20 2018, 10:53 PM
Post #28
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- superperfectnerd
- Jun 20 2018, 10:21 PM
- PF18
- Jun 20 2018, 09:30 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Jun 20 2018, 09:21 PM
Plus Kefla has to have abnormal multipliers to be so strong if ssjg > super Vegetto (at least)
Well no not really. The difference SSG makes was diminished. pre-absorption it was an enormous, astronomical boost over SSJ3. post-absorption, It wasn't really implied to be that large of a difference over SSJ3 at all. Going SSJ3 Goku has a slight advantage against Caulifla/Kale then he goes SSG and he has a significant advantage but the boost is clearly nothing like it was when Goku first did the ritual. This is just reinforced when we see that potara yielded a larger boost than SSG, when it was stated otherwise in the BoG arc. Personally, I think things look like this: Pre-ritual Goku Base-1 SSJ-50 SSJ2-100 SSJ3-400 SSG-8,000,000 Post-ritual Goku Base: 180,000 SSJ: 9,000,000 SSJ2: 18,000,000 SSJ3: 72,000,000 SSG: 144,000,000 So the boost from SSJ3->SSG went from 20,000 SSJ3 down to 2x SSJ3 after he absorbed the power
But then the uni 6 saiyans are ssjg level with no ritual or angel training... and no ssj either? (Before Goku and Vegeta) How are Goku and Vegeta treated like veteran, experienced saiyans when 2 years prior Cabba could have sneezed in base and wiped out universe 7 whilst Goku was fannying around on King Kai's planet with his base weaker than Freeza?
Thats what we call bad writing and PIS.
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StrenuousSpider
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Jun 20 2018, 10:57 PM
Post #29
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- PF18
- Jun 20 2018, 10:50 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Jun 20 2018, 10:21 PM
- PF18
- Jun 20 2018, 09:30 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Jun 20 2018, 09:21 PM
Plus Kefla has to have abnormal multipliers to be so strong if ssjg > super Vegetto (at least)
Well no not really. The difference SSG makes was diminished. pre-absorption it was an enormous, astronomical boost over SSJ3. post-absorption, It wasn't really implied to be that large of a difference over SSJ3 at all. Going SSJ3 Goku has a slight advantage against Caulifla/Kale then he goes SSG and he has a significant advantage but the boost is clearly nothing like it was when Goku first did the ritual. This is just reinforced when we see that potara yielded a larger boost than SSG, when it was stated otherwise in the BoG arc. Personally, I think things look like this: Pre-ritual Goku Base-1 SSJ-50 SSJ2-100 SSJ3-400 SSG-8,000,000 Post-ritual Goku Base: 180,000 SSJ: 9,000,000 SSJ2: 18,000,000 SSJ3: 72,000,000 SSG: 144,000,000 So the boost from SSJ3->SSG went from 20,000 SSJ3 down to 2x SSJ3 after he absorbed the power
But then the uni 6 saiyans are ssjg level with no ritual or angel training... and no ssj either? (Before Goku and Vegeta) How are Goku and Vegeta treated like veteran, experienced saiyans when 2 years prior Cabba could have sneezed in base and wiped out universe 7 whilst Goku was fannying around on King Kai's planet with his base weaker than Freeza?
I don't necessarily know why that is the case I just know that it is the case and that is what the story is telling us. In the same way that you can plot data, you know the data but you often don't know why the data is that way. The Universe 6 Saiyans evolved differently, they have a completely different temperament, and these are the 3 strongest of their race. There's several variables involved and any combination of these variables could be why they are naturally so much stronger. Why are some robots made on earth strongre than the Galactic Tyrant who blows up planets when he feels like it? I don't know why that is the case I just know that it IS the case. Also I wouldn't say that they are quite SSG level, but they are close. In the same way that Goku and Vegeta are not quite SSG level in base, but they are close.
We also have a robo suit that can fight gods and is a god himself. And that whole universe as a whole has robots that are freakishly stronge. A cyborg fusion of them stronger then 5 ssj god teir and up people lol. Just hunks of metal with some flesh here and there.
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PF18
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Jun 20 2018, 11:03 PM
Post #30
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- StrenuousSpider
- Jun 20 2018, 10:53 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Jun 20 2018, 10:21 PM
- PF18
- Jun 20 2018, 09:30 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Jun 20 2018, 09:21 PM
Plus Kefla has to have abnormal multipliers to be so strong if ssjg > super Vegetto (at least)
Well no not really. The difference SSG makes was diminished. pre-absorption it was an enormous, astronomical boost over SSJ3. post-absorption, It wasn't really implied to be that large of a difference over SSJ3 at all. Going SSJ3 Goku has a slight advantage against Caulifla/Kale then he goes SSG and he has a significant advantage but the boost is clearly nothing like it was when Goku first did the ritual. This is just reinforced when we see that potara yielded a larger boost than SSG, when it was stated otherwise in the BoG arc. Personally, I think things look like this: Pre-ritual Goku Base-1 SSJ-50 SSJ2-100 SSJ3-400 SSG-8,000,000 Post-ritual Goku Base: 180,000 SSJ: 9,000,000 SSJ2: 18,000,000 SSJ3: 72,000,000 SSG: 144,000,000 So the boost from SSJ3->SSG went from 20,000 SSJ3 down to 2x SSJ3 after he absorbed the power
But then the uni 6 saiyans are ssjg level with no ritual or angel training... and no ssj either? (Before Goku and Vegeta) How are Goku and Vegeta treated like veteran, experienced saiyans when 2 years prior Cabba could have sneezed in base and wiped out universe 7 whilst Goku was fannying around on King Kai's planet with his base weaker than Freeza?
Thats what we call bad writing and PIS.
I don't really think it is an example of bad writing. Let's say that they are as strong as Goku and Vegeta were in the Buu arc. AKA they are strong as Goku and Vegeta would be without angel training or the ritual.
But then they would be completely useless fodder. Do you think them being useless fodder would be better writing??
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4:57 PM Jul 13