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Ssj4 gogeta vs dbs.
Topic Started: Jun 17 2018, 04:00 PM (2,318 Views)
Notaka
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Always Wright

Why didn't Frieza go golden against Goku when they fought in hell? How come Kaioshin and Kibito are still fused in GT, when in Super they separated themselves and had no intention of fusing again. Where is Beerus? How come nobody mentioned him?

Ask yourself these questions and see if GT explained them. If it didn't, you'll have to assume that Super and GT are different continuities. Toriyama considers GT as a side-story, but not Super.
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PF18
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Notaka
Jun 25 2018, 10:32 AM
Why didn't Frieza go golden against Goku when they fought in hell? How come Kaioshin and Kibito are still fused in GT, when in Super they separated themselves and had no intention of fusing again. Where is Beerus? How come nobody mentioned him?

Ask yourself these questions and see if GT explained them. If it didn't, you'll have to assume that Super and GT are different continuities. Toriyama considers GT as a side-story, but not Super.
Yeah you can't lump them into the same continuity it just doesn't work. It's the same way when people try to mix and match the manga and anime powerscaling of DBS. It just doesn't work.


On topic, I SSJ4 Gogeta could take anybody up to the Universe 6 Arc SSGSS Goku/Vegeta and Hit.
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Vance
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Pointer
Jun 25 2018, 10:15 AM
Vance
Jun 25 2018, 10:02 AM
Pointer
Jun 25 2018, 07:25 AM
God i wonder how many years should pass until ppl realise that the statements in gt does not have anything to do with super.


Different timeline
Different continuity


When beby was said to be the strongest ki it was compared to Dbz For gods sake. Even if super takes place between the events of gt and z it can not be fit within the gt references. If we go by this twisted logic. Where is beerus in gt ? Why goku cant use ssjg ssblue on top of ssj3 ?


Too many questions


As for ontopic. Ssj4 gogeta might do well against bos ssjgod goku or might not. If we go straight by super though. The feats what goku demanstrated utterly exceeds everything what gt has to offer
Statements > Feats, this has always been true of Dragonball. If we were to assume that feats take priority, then you must accept that Master Roshi from the 21st Budokai is stronger/more impressive than Piccolo and Android 17 during their skirmish, considering the former destroyed the entire moon whereas the latter could barely destroy an island going full-throttle. Alternatively, you'd have to claim that Saiyan saga Vegeta / Goku and SSJ3 Goku (vs. Fat Buu) are within the realm of similar power, considering their power-ups shook the earth and had people worried about whether it could collapse the entire planet (and don't give me that whole concentrated power to surface area argument, SSJ3 Goku explicitly had difficulties reaching/controlling his full power).


GT occurs chronologically after the events of DB Super (both are branches from the original Dragonball run, so the timeline must be accepted if comparisons are to be made), and thus we attribute greater legitimacy to them. If people don't want to accept this, they should cease all DB Super vs. GT threads, as there's absolutely zero evidence for either side. I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek with my arguments admittedly, as I don't know nor care who is stronger between GT / Super; however, I find it hilarious how Super fans will accept the insulting and ludicrous powerscaling that occurs within the show (with a smile on their face no less), but shriek at the prospect of taking GT at face value.
Statements > feats ? Ah really

Ssj vegita was so damn sure about defeating cell and yet he failed.

Frieza was sure if he goes to 100 he will handle frieza yet he didnt.

Piccolo was sure he can handle 17 yet he failed


It is more like feats >>> statements if you know what i am sayin
1) SSJ Vegeta was estimated by Android 16 to have the advantage over Perfect Cell (initial), indicating the latter had suppressed his true power. Why wouldn't Vegeta, who's naturally arrogant and underestimates his opponent's ability to increase their power, believe himself to be capable of defeating someone who has an inferior power level? As evidenced by Vegeta's Final Flash, he was more than capable of harming Perfect Cell, it's very reasonable for him to believe himself the superior combatant at the outset.

2) What relevance does Frieza's statement have to the discussion at hand? Statements referencing one individual having greater power than another is the topic, not whether Frieza beleives he can control his 100% full power.

3) Piccolo and #17's fight was interrupted by Cell, first and foremost. Second, the differnece in their power was basically non-existant, with Piccolo having a greater variety of offensive weapons and #17 having greater defensive capabilities. Nevertheless, Piccolo had 17 on the ropes several times, and had it not been for his Energy Barrier, #17 could've found himself destroyed. You would've had somewhat of a point had Piccolo gotten his a** beat (not really, since the Z-Fighters can't sense Android KI), but their fight was incredibly competitive, indicating they were effectively on the same level of power.


An instance which would disprove Statements > Feats would be MSSJ Goku being claimed to be stronger than SSJ2 Gohan during the Cell Games, something no character would say nor would Toriyama try to imply. When a character is stated to be > another character, it needs to be taken as gospel UNLESS there is direct refutation within the source material. Obviously, comparing between different shows is basically impossible, but if we're going to even attempt to compare GT / Super, then the statements made in GT need to be taken into consideration.
"A good fighter knows his mental and physical limitations, but a great fighter will figure his way around them"
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StrenuousSpider
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Vance
Jun 25 2018, 06:30 PM
Pointer
Jun 25 2018, 10:15 AM
Vance
Jun 25 2018, 10:02 AM
Pointer
Jun 25 2018, 07:25 AM
God i wonder how many years should pass until ppl realise that the statements in gt does not have anything to do with super.


Different timeline
Different continuity


When beby was said to be the strongest ki it was compared to Dbz For gods sake. Even if super takes place between the events of gt and z it can not be fit within the gt references. If we go by this twisted logic. Where is beerus in gt ? Why goku cant use ssjg ssblue on top of ssj3 ?


Too many questions


As for ontopic. Ssj4 gogeta might do well against bos ssjgod goku or might not. If we go straight by super though. The feats what goku demanstrated utterly exceeds everything what gt has to offer
Statements > Feats, this has always been true of Dragonball. If we were to assume that feats take priority, then you must accept that Master Roshi from the 21st Budokai is stronger/more impressive than Piccolo and Android 17 during their skirmish, considering the former destroyed the entire moon whereas the latter could barely destroy an island going full-throttle. Alternatively, you'd have to claim that Saiyan saga Vegeta / Goku and SSJ3 Goku (vs. Fat Buu) are within the realm of similar power, considering their power-ups shook the earth and had people worried about whether it could collapse the entire planet (and don't give me that whole concentrated power to surface area argument, SSJ3 Goku explicitly had difficulties reaching/controlling his full power).


GT occurs chronologically after the events of DB Super (both are branches from the original Dragonball run, so the timeline must be accepted if comparisons are to be made), and thus we attribute greater legitimacy to them. If people don't want to accept this, they should cease all DB Super vs. GT threads, as there's absolutely zero evidence for either side. I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek with my arguments admittedly, as I don't know nor care who is stronger between GT / Super; however, I find it hilarious how Super fans will accept the insulting and ludicrous powerscaling that occurs within the show (with a smile on their face no less), but shriek at the prospect of taking GT at face value.
Statements > feats ? Ah really

Ssj vegita was so damn sure about defeating cell and yet he failed.

Frieza was sure if he goes to 100 he will handle frieza yet he didnt.

Piccolo was sure he can handle 17 yet he failed


It is more like feats >>> statements if you know what i am sayin
1) SSJ Vegeta was estimated by Android 16 to have the advantage over Perfect Cell (initial), indicating the latter had suppressed his true power. Why wouldn't Vegeta, who's naturally arrogant and underestimates his opponent's ability to increase their power, believe himself to be capable of defeating someone who has an inferior power level? As evidenced by Vegeta's Final Flash, he was more than capable of harming Perfect Cell, it's very reasonable for him to believe himself the superior combatant at the outset.

2) What relevance does Frieza's statement have to the discussion at hand? Statements referencing one individual having greater power than another is the topic, not whether Frieza beleives he can control his 100% full power.

3) Piccolo and #17's fight was interrupted by Cell, first and foremost. Second, the differnece in their power was basically non-existant, with Piccolo having a greater variety of offensive weapons and #17 having greater defensive capabilities. Nevertheless, Piccolo had 17 on the ropes several times, and had it not been for his Energy Barrier, #17 could've found himself destroyed. You would've had somewhat of a point had Piccolo gotten his a** beat (not really, since the Z-Fighters can't sense Android KI), but their fight was incredibly competitive, indicating they were effectively on the same level of power.


An instance which would disprove Statements > Feats would be MSSJ Goku being claimed to be stronger than SSJ2 Gohan during the Cell Games, something no character would say nor would Toriyama try to imply. When a character is stated to be > another character, it needs to be taken as gospel UNLESS there is direct refutation within the source material. Obviously, comparing between different shows is basically impossible, but if we're going to even attempt to compare GT / Super, then the statements made in GT need to be taken into consideration.
Sorry but thats just a no.

Like someone pointed out toriyama considers GT a side story. So no connection between the super and it. And when talking about two series you dont have to take the timeline into account and its statements you take there feats. Statements of GT refer to Z and only Z not super which came out 20 years later. it is completely flawed logic to think they do connect to super.

It be like trying to combined statements in the naruto anime with Zs it simply dose not work.
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Blue Evolution Vegeta
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Can't believe people still think GT takes place after DBS, DBS branched off from the GT continuity long ago, too many things in DBS contradict GT
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Nobody seems to deny Super and DB being in the same continuity despite all of the contradictions Super causes...
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Topographic Oceans
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As a wise man once said...

http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=11118806&t=10021021

The Dragon Ball Specialist
 
All of Dragon Ball takes place in a single continuity. The original 42-volume manga, all of the anime's filler, GT, the Super anime, the Super manga, the original DB movie trilogy, the original 13 Z movies, the Collectible Card Game, Battle of Gods, Ressurection 'F', Dragon Ball Heroes, Jaco the Galactic Patrolman, Dragon Ball Minus, Episode of Bardock, Plan to Erradicate the Saiyans, the One Piece crossover, Nekomajin, Nekomajin Z, Dr Slump, Dr Slump's 1997 remake, and Dragon Ball Online. If you ignore some minor inconsistencies, it all fits together pretty neatly.
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Don't even the video games and Heroes treat ssj4 as something from a different dimension?

Trying to fit everything together can be fun but it's just all fan theory. Toriyama has said GT is a side story and the movies are in their own alternate dimension. GT is probably the same thing. It takes place in an alternate dimension
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Six Trails
Jun 28 2018, 02:54 PM
Nobody seems to deny Super and DB being in the same continuity despite all of the contradictions Super causes...
I do!
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Contradictions are one thing but it's hard to deny toriyama's words. Given everything he's said, GT probably takes place in a different timeline.

Movies according to toriyama take place in their own dimension. GT is probably no different. The way the movies and GT were made was pretty similar in that they are mostly toei's product with a little input from toriyama.

Toriyama has even said GT is a side story. That alone doesn't neccessarily mean it's not part of the main continuity but given what we already know about his take on the movies and the fact that he easily could've said it was a sequel or continuation rather than something that happens on the side, it's probably separate from Super
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Jun 28 2018, 03:54 PM.
IT'S CHEESE
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Six Trails
Jun 28 2018, 02:54 PM
Nobody seems to deny Super and DB being in the same continuity despite all of the contradictions Super causes...
Like what?
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Vance
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Gonna lol so hard when they introduce Uub at the end of the new DB Super movie. Maybe they'll even put "Super Baby Vegeta 1 > Zeno" at the end of the credits!
"A good fighter knows his mental and physical limitations, but a great fighter will figure his way around them"
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Topographic Oceans
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B-but Oob is in the manga... he's not a GT-exclusive character...

Although now I'm not so sure if this "GT takes place after Super" thing was ever serious.
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StrenuousSpider
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Vance
Jun 28 2018, 07:33 PM
Gonna lol so hard when they introduce Uub at the end of the new DB Super movie. Maybe they'll even put "Super Baby Vegeta 1 > Zeno" at the end of the credits!
He showed up at the EoZ. Has been mentioned twice in super.
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Pyrus
Jun 28 2018, 04:45 PM
Six Trails
Jun 28 2018, 02:54 PM
Nobody seems to deny Super and DB being in the same continuity despite all of the contradictions Super causes...
Like what?
Like namek never showing up in GT
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