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- God of destruction toppo vs hit,frieza,17 and Gohan
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| God of destruction toppo vs hit,frieza,17 and Gohan; Could they beat toppo? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 14 2018, 09:29 AM (658 Views) | |
| Amerson26 | Jun 14 2018, 09:29 AM Post #1 |
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| + Pyrus | Jun 14 2018, 05:06 PM Post #2 |
 
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The team is getting wrecked. |
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| superperfectnerd | Jun 14 2018, 06:28 PM Post #3 |
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With no distractions or saves from Goku or Vegeta, Toppo would decimate them. I feel like people over hype certain character feats that occurred nearer the end of the TOP, you see 17 dodge Toppo for 20 minutes in an episode but in universe that entire episode was less than 1 minute of time. People think 17 can "hang with Toppo", no, he was always using distraction and fleeing tactics and it was for about 5 seconds before Freeza popped up his head and shouted "oi Toppo, you dick!"
Edited by superperfectnerd, Jun 14 2018, 06:29 PM.
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| + Son-Goku | Jun 14 2018, 07:15 PM Post #4 |
孫悟空
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Nothing they could do, Toppo wins. |
 RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power | |
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| EMIYA | Jun 14 2018, 08:06 PM Post #5 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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Remember what Toppo did to Freeza? Same thing for everyone else. |
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| Notaka | Jun 14 2018, 08:23 PM Post #6 |
Always Wright
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I'll be the contrarian that every topic needs and say the team actually wins. While Toppo is stronger than any member of the team, I have Hit close to him in power. Now, The longer the fights drags on, Toppo's chance would slim and slim down. So it essentially boils down to Toppo vs Hit, but the others are somewhat strong enough to turn the tide in Hit's favor. |
 "My name is Kakyoin Noriaki!" Thanks to Graffiti for the Sig!  | |
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| + Pyrus | Jun 14 2018, 08:28 PM Post #7 |
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Freeza is arguably the most powerful one here, or at least the most durable and tied with Hit power-wise. He was pretty much one-shotted by a freshly knighted Toppo. Even Hit's Time Cage would likely be moot against Toppo's hakai aura and hakai spamming. Android #17 is only good for a minor distraction here since he can only run away like a mouse from a cat.
Hit is nowhere near Kaio-Ken x20 tier. He amounted to nothing against Jiren, and only survived until Jiren decided he was bored again. None of his attacks landed (save for the Time Cage), which all of the characters made note of. The best that could be prescribed from his bout with Jiren is his durability/adaptability. He's no stronger than a regular Blue tier fighter from a power level standpoint. Destroyer Toppo was trouncing Blue Evolved Vegeta, who was initially on par with KKx20 Blue Goku. It's not even close here. Edited by Pyrus, Jun 14 2018, 08:31 PM.
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| Notaka | Jun 14 2018, 08:32 PM Post #8 |
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Always Wright
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He didn't do jacks*** against Jiren. He did way, way better than Kaioken Goku ever did. Goku was literally getting blinked away, while Hit, even though much weaker than Jiren, almost managed to knock him off and had him exert some efforts. Even then, Let's admit he's surprisingly resilient. He still has that "Get stronger as I fight" thing going on with him. |
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"My name is Kakyoin Noriaki!" Thanks to Graffiti for the Sig! | |
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| StrenuousSpider | Jun 14 2018, 09:09 PM Post #9 |
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Hit never showed to get stronger fast enough to close the gap on even goku who id say at U6T was only 2x hit as blue kk. So he is npt lasting long enough to catch up to toppo. And i agree witg pyrus he did jack shot to jiren only survived by running with his time skip most of the fight and jiren was on his a** the whole time. Without it he was nothing. Also nearly eliminating (tho jiren had in under control the whole time) jiren dose not make him stronger then jiren or goku. Krillian did it to Ultimate gohan, krillian nearly did it to goku. Buu did it to goku. Dose not mean they are stronger or even close. Hell goku nearly eliminated jiren on a few occasions as well. I have Hit at ssj god level ToP along with gohan. Thats going off a few more concrete things then a jiren fight. If i took jiren fights at face value 17 > blue evolution. As he held back a jiren that was said to be at full power. Anyway. Hit 1 Ssj god 1 Ssj blue 50 Blue evolution 1000 Toppo 100 Toppo god 1000 |
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| + Pyrus | Jun 14 2018, 09:20 PM Post #10 |
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I disagree completely. Goku and Jiren's fight was much more even than Hit and Jiren's fight. Goku was able to surprise Jiren with a Kamehameha as well as a kick with Kaio-ken, and fight evenly (without Kaio-ken) on two separate instances throughout the whole skirmish. In contrast, Hit surprised Jiren just once at the start with Time Skip (which is understandable), but was never able to fight evenly or land a single successful blow, something Goku did multiple times without the aid of constant Kaio-ken, mind you; in addition, Hit was constantly on the defensive, and was sent crashing back more than once from Jiren's punches. The only praise Hit received was from Toppo at the start of the fight after Hit had managed to block a flurry of Jiren's punches and dodge once with the Time Skip (the one that surprised Jiren), which was him saying Hit was doing "surprisingly well." The rest of the time, Champa, Vados, their Kaioshin, East Kaioshin, and Caulifla and Kale were all wondering why Hit was continuing to fight in vain – it was that obvious that he was losing to a Jiren that wasn't taking him seriously which, by the way, Jiren admitted to before sending Hit flying through a rock structure. The only reason Hit lasted so long was because he was careful with where he was being smacked in order to receive minimal damage, waiting for his chance to use the Time Cage as Cabba said. I guess you could say Hit landed one blow, a second heart stopping punch after his first was recently blocked with one hand, but I really don't think that was anything more than Jiren's lack of care. Hit's last ditch effort was stopped by Jiren's glare just like the Genki Dama, and then he was eliminated moments later after taking the same orange eye crap that ended the fight with Blue Goku. Sorry for the large paragraph, but the gist of it is that Goku landed more attacks, was able to fight evenly on multiple occasions, and was able to surprise Jiren with his maneuvers. Hit was able to land one attack—if that—while being on the defensive otherwise, was never able to fight toe-to-toe, and was also able to surprise Jiren with some of his maneuvers. I would not call that Hit doing way, way better than Goku ever did. Not in the slightest. There's also Blue Goku blowing through Kunshi's trip wires that had Hit stopped in his tracks, but that's rather minor. |
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| Notaka | Jun 14 2018, 09:33 PM Post #11 |
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Always Wright
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I saw Hit as faring much better. Jiren was on the defensive through out his entire fight with Goku, whereas he switched to the offensive against Hit. The problem is, Goku got blinked away by Jiren who was defending most of the fight, but Hit managed to out last Goku against Jiren who was more on the offensive; the same Jiren that was fighting UI Goku. I don't believe that Jiren was going easy on Hit, he has no reason to and it wasn't stated he was jobbering, but I'll admit that the reason Hit lasted this long was because of him abusing his timeskip. But then, if he was only Blue Tier, he wouldn't have even lasted a smidgen of the time he did in the show. He'd be going against an opponent that is literally more than twenty times his strength. But that's not the case in the show. Toppo's praise is still a noteworthy statement: They never said a thing about Goku before he got UI. Just consider that Hit, by himself, spent a full episode surviving Jiren(It was one minute in universe, but it's still a long time when facing against someone like Jiren). I just don't see how Hit can only be blue tier basing of his whole fight against Jiren. @StrenousSpider Hit lasting this much against Jiren doesn't mean 17 > Blue evolution. Not only 17 didn't fight as long as Hit did, he was doing a hit and run strategy, compared to Hit who fought Jiren head on. And all of your examples are poor. Yes, you could say Krillin elimnated Gohan, but he wasn't having a straight fight against him and he wasn't defending himself from Gohan's hits like Hit did when he was with Jiren. Edited by Notaka, Jun 14 2018, 09:50 PM.
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| StrenuousSpider | Jun 14 2018, 10:16 PM Post #12 |
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I could vary well say 17 > evolution. In that fight jiren was stated to have gone full power and 17 physically held him back. Jiren went for a 3 way ring out and 17 stopped it. Much more impressive then anything vegeta or hit managed against Hit. You told me satan is not tao level because surviving dose not mean you are close in powerr and i agreed. Bit same logic works here. We know how hard hit is to beat because time skip and he was given a extremely haxed ability like time cage those are why he lasted as long as he did. None of his showings and a near elimination which i disagree that he was even close is a indication that he is near goku or jiren. Pyrus brought up the land mines. Tho he thinks its minor i do not. His fight with dyspo before see through how he attacked was piss poor. While gohan saw it immediately and beat him just as bad. Which shows hit was slower then dyspo while freiza gokus equal was stated to be faster. Hit is one of the weak links here. Freiza > 17 > Hit = Gohan. |
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| Notaka | Jun 14 2018, 10:35 PM Post #13 |
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Always Wright
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No you could not very well tell 17 > Blue Evolution. He physically held him back for like, what? 5 seconds? in an episode where only 1 minutes or 30 seconds passed in show. Doesn't even compare to half the episode where Hit kept blocking Jiren's hits. I told you Satan is not Tao level, but If we know that Satan did actually fought back against Tao but still lost, then it's a fair example. It doesn't work here. And what's wrong with his time skip? You're talking like it was restricted or he can't use it. If he managed to survive Jiren for a fair amount of time thanks to it, He can do the same to Toppo. Fighting against Hit is like literally fighting against time; The more you fight him the stronger he gets. The fight with Dyspo doesn't tell us much. Hit was getting beaten, but once he figured out the trick, he started to stomp Dyspo. Gohan and the others already knew of his trick so he had to resort to his super speed mode which needed both Frieza and Gohan to deal with. Plus it happened before his fight in Jiren, so it doesn't contradict anything. IDK, It's clear as day. Goku vs Jiren had the two of them start evenly, but it was obvious Jiren was holding back. Then Goku used Kaioken to free himself from Jiren, giving him a surprise kick. If this hit is considered a sign of fighting back, so should Hit's punch on Jiren before he used his time cage. Then they both go at it evenly, this time Goku not using kaioken before Jiren starts dominating again. Now when Goku actually uses Kaioken x20, he gets flicked away by Jiren blinking and has to resort to the spirit bomb. And of course, it becomes even when Goku first uses UI, with characters nothing how he's able to hold out against Jiren. Contrast that with Hit who fought against a more aggressive Jiren, had Toppo say that he's fighting surprisingly well against Jiren, something that was only said to UI Goku. You could easily tell that aside from UI Goku, Jiren was giving more efforts in his fight against Hit than against Blueper Goku. It's like this: Character A and B both have fought against C and were getting dominated. Except B put up a much better fight and made C try harder than A ever did. Logically, I'd assume that B is stronger than A. Same thing with Goku, Hit and Jiren. That's the way I see it. Edited by Notaka, Jun 14 2018, 10:36 PM.
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"My name is Kakyoin Noriaki!" Thanks to Graffiti for the Sig! | |
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| + Pyrus | Jun 14 2018, 11:23 PM Post #14 |
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Jiren was certainly using different effort levels against Goku, otherwise Kaio-ken x20 would have to provide no boost whatsoever. Goku without the assistance of Kaio-ken was able to fight back and forth with Jiren at times, whilst he was unable to do anything with Kaio-ken x20 besides the one kick near the start. If Jiren was using alternating levels against Goku, then it would stand to reason that he was against Hit as well, or you would need to argue Hit was closing in on Ultra Instinct Omen level, and that's simply Goku was praised by Belmod right before the Blue portion happened actually, saying that if Goku was defeated it would demoralize everyone else, implying he thought highly of him in relation to the non-U11 competitors. The showdown with Goku was the fight to watch in his eyes. Besides, Toppo's praise is heavily outweighed by literally every other character that watched Hit's fight acknowledging that he was doing f*** all and wondering why he kept trying. Hit himself admitted his entire plan from the start was to use the Time Cage and hold Jiren for the remainder of the tournament, because he couldn't beat him otherwise. Jiren wasn't on the defensive against Goku the whole time. He was actively fighting back, swinging Goku around by the feet, punching back, pursuing him. In fact he claimed the fight was over near the end after he blasted Goku in the gut to send him off the stage, and Goku survived and came back with Kaio-ken turned on wanting more. That's when Jiren utilized his invisible punching technique that seemed to convince Goku to resort to the Genki Dama. When fighting Hit, Jiren was more on the defensive, often standing around and waiting for Time Skip, particularly during the parts where Hit was spamming it over and over. (And I don't mean defensive as in he couldn't do anything back, like in the case of Hit defending against Jiren. I just mean he wasn't being as aggressive in his pursuit of victory.) Edited by Pyrus, Jun 14 2018, 11:36 PM.
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| StrenuousSpider | Jun 14 2018, 11:30 PM Post #15 |
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Never said hurcule was tao level i literally agreed with you on that. What im saying i that 17 has feats that do put him stronger but we cant take it to serious because jiren. And you could vary well assume jiren at that point was more aggressive then ever. I never said hit cant use it, it could vary well give him a slight fight against toppo. Like i said its tge only reason hit did not get demolished by jiren. Literally said he needed to end it with the time cage as nothing else even stood a chance. Goku later on fought better as a normal ssj blue then a kk blue so again you cant take jiren fights at face value untill the end of the tournament. By the way you say he was more aggressive but nothing suggest he was anymore or less aggressive against goku. Every other one of hits fights make him weaker then blue. Like i said fight against dyspo physically being hurt by him but unable to do the same to golden freiza? Again hit was slower then dyspo while freiza blue teir was faster. Scared of land mines which did not even scratch blue goku. I dont think hit did better then goku at all. Even with his time skip which lets him fight stronger people. |
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