PF18

Jun 12 2018, 01:48 AM

StrenuousSpider

Jun 12 2018, 01:33 AM

PF18

Jun 12 2018, 12:31 AM

StrenuousSpider

Jun 11 2018, 08:55 PM

PF18

Jun 11 2018, 06:10 PM

StrenuousSpider

Jun 11 2018, 12:21 PM

PF18

Jun 11 2018, 03:27 AM

StrenuousSpider

Jun 10 2018, 08:10 PM

PF18

Jun 10 2018, 07:34 PM

Any iteration of 1st Form Freeza gets demolished vs even SSJ1 Buu arc Vegetto.

Revival of F Final Form Freeza loses in a close one.
ToP Final Form Freeza absolutely slaughters SSJ1 and and defeats SSJ3 with mild difficulty.

(anime)-Final form freiza = Ssj god Bog >= ssj4 gogeta
First form 226x weaker then final.
No way in hell is first form loseing to vegito.

(movie)-Final form freiza = ssj god > beerus vs Z fighters > beerus vs goku > ssj3 vegito.
Again he is not losing to vegito.

Final Form Freeza is definitely far weaker than BoG SSG. Goku's SSJ was infused with SSG and he surpassed that in SSJ but for Final Form Freeza, and therefore, base Goku, to be at that level, Goku would have to have gotten 50x stronger.(The Base>SSG thing was movies only)

Let me put it this way, I think ROF Final Form Freeza is around 900x stronger than Buu arc SSJ3 Goku and SSJ Vegetto 1200x Buu Arc SSJ3 Goku.

900/113= ~8x SSJ3 Goku for 1st Form Freeza. I think Freeza in his 1st form could beat Super Buu but not SSJ Vegetto.

Things actually look like this:

SSJ Goku(post ritual)>SSG BoG>>Base Goku ROF>=Final Form Freeza>>1st Form Freeza

And I think SSJ Vegetto fits in there between Base Goku ROF and SSG Goku during BoG.

Movie said fusion was useless as well. This includes ssj3 vegito.
Goku absorbs god into base.
Freiza is equal to or slightly above base goku which puts him equal to or slightly above base ssj god.
My movie scale takes everything that was said about the movies into account. The 70%, 10%, 6 10 15 scale, and freizas multiplier from past series all come out to first form being superior to ssj2 vegito but weaker then 3. Nothing i put out was of random numbers like yours seem to be. Also this is taking into account a stronger vegito then buu saga.

As for the anime vegito as a ssj4 with a boost of 200 has no hope of touching first form freiza.

Ssj god = base goku (rof) = final form freiza

Ssj god >= ssj4 gogeta

Gogeta is at least 24x goku and vegeta
We will use 10x for ssj4.

Ssj4 Gogeta 24000

Ssj4 goku 1000
Ssj3 goku 100

First form comes out at the least ssj3 goku shadow dragon saga goku. Again not random numbers im useing. Here i use the dozens of times stronger for gogeta as said in the files. The 10x multiplier used in this thread to keep things consistent. And ssj god being shown superior to ssj4 gogeta and me being generous making them equals.

Yes I know fusion was mentioned in both versions and I am aware that SSG>SSJ3 Vegetto I never said otherwise. Why are you arbitrarily shoving GT and SSJ4 Gogeta into this? It makes no sense. We know nothing definitively about where they stand.

No goku didn't absorb SSG into his base. So there's that. That was "Saiyan Beyond God" and that only existed in the movies. Goku and Vegeta cannot use God Ki outside of SSB/SSG and Goku, as Beerus stated, infused the SSG power into his SSJ and so they were about equal in strength. For Goku to have surpassed BoG SSG in his base, he would have to get 50x stronger and I just don't think he did.

I am speaking in both movie and anime versions here. So yes saying first form is weaker then vegito in anime is completely wrong thats why gogeta and GT are brought into this conversation. Because Ssj god = ssj4 gogeta and if you divide ssj4 gogetas power by 226 for friezas multiplier he still far out classes any vegito in buu saga.

Goku did absorb god in base in movie. Sayain beyond god was his new base there was no normal base anymore in the movies thats a super thing. Anime wise his power was treated as more terrifying then when he fought beerus meaning base > ssj bog. And some subs downright say he was stronger.

If you want to say base vegito beats first form freiza in movie then prove my numbers wrong. Mind you they still have to fit into the 6 10 15 scale. 70% and 10% beerus. Freizas multiplier from first to final which is 226x. 1% beerus > ssj3 vegito. 50x 2x and 4x ssj multipliers. And 10x for ssj4. And fit it in all like mine do. I dont see ssj4 vegito even touching final form freiza.

1st form Freeza is weaker than Vegetto....and that is why you brought up GT? There's absolutely no relation you bringing in GT was irrational. How could you possibly know for certain that SSG+=SSJ4 Gogeta?? That is just ridiculous.

Yes I know that he absorbed it into his base in the movie that was mypoint. Saiyan Beyond God was only in the movie and was retconned when DBS rolled around. Goku and Vegeta could no longer use God Ki in their base and there base was way weaker than SSG but their SSJ was stronger than it. Krillin made a comment about being scared. that has no baring on where their power stands. If anything, when Goku goes SSB then the narrator comments that Goku had surpassed SSG, implying that ONLY THEN did he surpass SSG and not in his base.

Again, I was not discussing the movie only the fact that it was retconned. Your response ihere s irrelevant to the discussion.

No no its not. Ive been discussing bith movie and anime. The retcons of the anime have no bearings on the movie period.

So again anime is far ahead of vegito. Movie is another can of worms.
Ok if tou want to believe that RoF goku is weaker then god goku go ahead it changes nothing on the subject. I used a hypothetical BoG vegito in my scale.Again a scale which you have not disproven. My scale of course which lines up with everything we know about the movies.

So lets see gohan was still ultimate and was not said to have or shown to have gotten weaker untill RoF so we have to assume he is still his buu saga self. And we know Ultimate gohan > ssj3 goku by a huge margin. However the movie implies Goku assuming ssj3 > Ultimate gohan. This itself would put the vegito in that movie Far far superior to buu saga vegito. The superior vegito which i used in my scale. Buu saga vegito is nothing to movie characters. Regardless if you put base goku 50x weaker then god. Vegito in buu saga is roughly 400x weaker then the hypothetical BoG vegito which was said to be useless and thats assuming ssj3.

Ill ask you again make a scalesl that includes these.

6 10 15 scale.
70% and 10% and 1%.
10x ssj4.
226x freiza multiplier.
50x 2x 4x ssj multipliers.
And this topics 10x multiplier for ssj4.
As well as goku now above gohan.
And last but not least 1% beerus > ssj3 bog vegito

Show me a scale with numbers useing beerus as a starting point. That fits all this and has vegito(buu saga not BoG) stronger then any form of freiza.

OK great yes the anime has no affect on the movies but that isn't what was being discussed. It was the difference between the movie and anime is that in the anime "Saiyan Beyond God" exists and in the movie it does.

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Ok if tou want to believe that RoF goku is weaker then god goku go ahead it changes nothing on the subject

Except that it changes EVERYTHING on the subject since it means a 50x difference in power for Goku and that is huge. Again, I have no idea why you keep bringing up the movies and trying to scale those because that has nothing to do with this conversation.

Quote:

 

6 10 15 scale.
70% and 10% and 1%.
10x ssj4.
226x freiza multiplier.
50x 2x 4x ssj multipliers.
And this topics 10x multiplier for ssj4.
As well as goku now above gohan.
And last but not least 1% beerus > ssj3 bog vegito

The 6 10 15 scale was retconned in the anime it is not applicable.
Again, the 70% was retconned, the 10% is questionable since Beerus lied about using full-power so there's reason to believe he was lying there too.
SSJ4 has nothing to do with this at all whatsoever.
226x would correspond to 100% power Freeza but that is his buff form. Here a 113x multiplier would correspond.
Why 1% Beerus? Did you just arbitrarily decide this?