If you are a Freeza > base Saiyajin supporter...

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If you are a Freeza > base Saiyajin supporter...
Tweet Topic Started: Jun 8 2018, 08:54 AM (2,465 Views)
Notaka	Jun 8 2018, 05:42 PM Post #16
Always Wright Posts: 4,070 Group: Member Member #10,814 Joined: January 31, 2014 Country Algeria What Browser do you use? Waterfox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, JoJo no kimyou na bouken, One piece, currently reading Shaman King	Pointer Jun 8 2018, 05:28 PM 18 case was very well the opposite. She underestimated the boys and i am sure if the attack hit her she would have lost the match. Gohan said goten isnt far from him thus ssj goten must be very well between assj vegeta against cell and mssj goku I'm afraid I don't understand your point. Well even if she underestimated them, then that means she didn't even use her full power against her, right ? Since that's what underestimating someone means in DBZ. If she wasn't at full strength this makes the kids even weaker. Also which attack are you talking about? They were fighting for a brief moment, in which she slammed them to the ground and then they get back up and turn SSJ. If you mean the powered up attack from them then yes she'd lose if it hit her. @Topographic oceans The statement is still there, even if it was a retcon. The case for Base Saiyans > Freeza relies on implications about statements/feats which can be seen differently. Maybe you see this particular feat/word as definite proof, but I could still twist and it'll still make sense with the manga. Meanwhile Beerus' quote isn't something you can twist. You have his first quote, I guess you could say Goku was suppressed even though nothing tells me he would be, but you have Beerus saying how he's able to see Goku defeating Frieza after he transformed into a Super Saiyan and actually fought against him. SSJ Goku can't come over weaker than his base form, Goku would need to reach his base form's limit and then overcome it via SSJ. Really, when you look at it, Beerus' quote doesn't contradict Z if you see from another angle. The base saiyans barely fought after they got SSJ, and we're left on feats/statements, which like I said, could be interpreted otherwise.
	*"My name is Kakyoin Noriaki!"* Thanks to Graffiti for the Sig!


+ Son-Goku	Jun 8 2018, 05:45 PM Post #17
孫悟空 Posts: 13,359 Group: Elite Member Member #12,886 Joined: January 24, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime DB/DBZ/DBS, Code Geass, Gintama, YYH, Death Note, and SAO. What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, and Naruto.	Base saiyans>Frieza. Also, Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan.
	RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power


Topographic Oceans	Jun 8 2018, 05:46 PM Post #18
Posts: 1,788 Group: Member Member #10,681 Joined: January 5, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Action Comics Favourite Manga Detective Comics	Son-Goku Jun 8 2018, 05:45 PM Also, Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan. I concur.
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+ Pyrus	Jun 8 2018, 06:11 PM Post #19
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	It's more believable than Gohan being stronger. Goku fought the final villain, after all.
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Topographic Oceans	Jun 8 2018, 06:18 PM Post #20
Posts: 1,788 Group: Member Member #10,681 Joined: January 5, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Action Comics Favourite Manga Detective Comics	Gohan is a fraud. He can't even catch an earring. Worst of all, after failing to catch it, he struggles to find it amidst the rubble, despite the fact that those characters supposedly move at hyper-super-speed. I think the other characters (including Boo) just sort of pretended he was stronger, so that Gohan wouldn't feel bad. Boo evently got fed up with it and decided to lay the smackdown on him, though. Edited by Topographic Oceans, Jun 8 2018, 06:18 PM.
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Notaka	Jun 8 2018, 06:22 PM Post #21
Always Wright Posts: 4,070 Group: Member Member #10,814 Joined: January 31, 2014 Country Algeria What Browser do you use? Waterfox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, JoJo no kimyou na bouken, One piece, currently reading Shaman King	I love how this is turning into an SSJ3 Goku vs Ultimate Gohan debate We have strayed from the true path
	*"My name is Kakyoin Noriaki!"* Thanks to Graffiti for the Sig!


+ Son-Goku	Jun 8 2018, 06:37 PM Post #22
孫悟空 Posts: 13,359 Group: Elite Member Member #12,886 Joined: January 24, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime DB/DBZ/DBS, Code Geass, Gintama, YYH, Death Note, and SAO. What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, and Naruto.	Pyrus Jun 8 2018, 06:11 PM It's more believable than Gohan being stronger. Goku fought the final villain, after all. I mean, Vegeta himself said Goku was the only one who could fight Kid Buu.
	RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power


Topographic Oceans	Jun 8 2018, 07:07 PM Post #23
Posts: 1,788 Group: Member Member #10,681 Joined: January 5, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Action Comics Favourite Manga Detective Comics	Does that mean that Goku is stronger than Vegetto? Like... he's so much stronger than Vegeta that fusion actually weakens him?
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ahill1	Jun 8 2018, 08:28 PM Post #24
Posts: 759 Group: Member Member #12,438 Joined: June 29, 2015 Gender Not Specified Country Egypt Favourite Anime HxH What Browser do you use? the best Favourite Manga HxH	Notaka Jun 8 2018, 09:21 AM We've debated this to death but let's go: I am aware, but I am still interested in the debate. Anyway, thank you for your counters and for your time.



+ Pyrus	Jun 8 2018, 08:30 PM Post #25
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	You're welcome.
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superperfectnerd	Jun 8 2018, 08:36 PM Post #26
Posts: 3,709 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	This is the same thing over and over again. Base saiyans Cell saga <<<<<< Piccolo < ssjs Cell saga < base saiyans oo saga but Gohan has only been slightly surpassed by Goku and Vegeta? Wot?



PF18	Jun 8 2018, 08:38 PM Post #27
Posts: 450 Group: Member Member #14,296 Joined: March 22, 2018 Gender Male Country United States	How do people rationalize in the OVA with Tarble where Goku gets disappointed when the enemies are as strong as Freeza and he says "In hindsight not much of a foe." That kinda implies that Base Goku>Freeza



superperfectnerd	Jun 8 2018, 08:45 PM Post #28
Posts: 3,709 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	Why? Goku could be slightly weaker than Freeza in base, go ssj and it be no challenge. A good fight for Goku is somebody he has to go all out against, like Kid boo.



Dankness Lava	Jun 8 2018, 08:51 PM Post #29
Dankness Forever Posts: 6,348 Group: Tha Dankness Member #9,197 Joined: March 16, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Hajime no Ippo What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga One Piece	Regardless of how marvelous the Saiyans' energy is purported to be, you can't say that would be enough to fuel Boo, not in their base forms alone. They must've been counting on a transformation. You can't use that quote to imply them being more powerful than Frieza because that's not what the point was.



Topographic Oceans	Jun 8 2018, 08:56 PM Post #30
Posts: 1,788 Group: Member Member #10,681 Joined: January 5, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Action Comics Favourite Manga Detective Comics	Toriyama definitely wrote Piccolo as weaker than the base Saiyans in the Boo arc. Vegeta's statement coupled with him throwing the match against Shin make that awfully clear. You can work your away around these with "Vegeta is an arrogant idiot dunderhead moron imbecile who doesn't have any idea what he's talking about" and "Piccolo threw the match out of respect", but the authorial intent remains clear. Babidi treating him as trash which is not worthy of consideration and should be quickly dispatched further cements the fact that Toriyama viewed Piccolo as a non-factor power-wise and wrote him as such. Now, wheter or not that's consistent with the Cell Games is a whole other story. There's reason to believe Piccolo's implied strength in the Boo arc is a plot hole. Edited by Topographic Oceans, Jun 8 2018, 08:59 PM.
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