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how could certain fighters fight ?
Topic Started: May 28 2018, 06:18 PM (293 Views)
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Those warriors who cant sense ki

Frieza on namek the whole ginyu squad vegeta on earth and etc...


If they relied only their eyes. How on earth could they percept ftl movements heck hypersonic movements ? When they are faster than that the eyes can see ( gohans case when he couldnt see the saibamen fighting )...


Or is that a flaw in the story like the average humans can see the fights ?
Edited by Pointer, May 28 2018, 06:27 PM.

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Notaka
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I don't think you need to sense KI just to follow someone, unless they were faster than you which wasn't really the case with Ginyu,Freeza, Vegeta etc..

Maybe since they can move their body, their arms at hypersonic(I'd say sub-relativistic actually) speeds, so could their eyes?

Gohan's case is that he was a greenhorn to fighting, unlike Frieza or Ginyu.
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Notaka
May 28 2018, 06:25 PM
I don't think you need to sense KI just to follow someone, unless they were faster than you which wasn't really the case with Ginyu,Freeza, Vegeta etc..

Maybe since they can move their body, their arms at hypersonic(I'd say sub-relativistic actually) speeds, so could their eyes?

Gohan's case is that he was a greenhorn to fighting, unlike Frieza or Ginyu.
Well the basic technique : afterimage was invented to fool the eye. Which means that was the limit of the eye. Anything which was faster than that should not be seen by eyes . No matter how strong or fast the person really is


Gohan was both faster and stronger than the saibamen yet he couldnt see them.

If you have hypersonic reactions and speed it doesnt mean your eyes, the organ also have supersuper framerate and stuff. It has a limit and we were not shown to be say that that could be trained
Edited by Pointer, May 28 2018, 06:31 PM.

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Tinny
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Pointer
May 28 2018, 06:18 PM
Those warriors who cant sense ki

Frieza on namek the whole ginyu squad vegeta on earth and etc...


If they relied only their eyes. How on earth could they percept ftl movements heck hypersonic movements ? When they are faster than that the eyes can see ( gohans case when he couldnt see the saibamen fighting )...


Or is that a flaw in the story like the average humans can see the fights ?
There are two ways to interpret it. Either it's a flaw as you said, and Toriyama just failed at science again, or they're not faster than light. Hell, Anislaza tracks them via sound. In Super. That alone gives the impression that none of them are so fast as to become invisible via outrunning light.

...Would also explain why they can talk at all too, beyond just narrative convenience (and let's be honest, the real reason is because no one wants to figure out how FTL fights would work, is it'd probably be incomprehensible and even boring to actually do so with any degree of accuracy).

Honestly I think it's a stretch to say they're FTL until like, Super, maybe late Z.

Afterimages are weird because of the implication that you are just so fast they they can't even see you, but they're only really useful against foes which are just as fast as you. I'd just consider it a trope or a fighting move type of deal. It looks cool more or less.
Edited by Tinny, May 28 2018, 06:32 PM.
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I dont think they are only supersonic. Lot of lot of evidences indicates otherwise.


They can talk because of narrative and the eye thing might be a science failure.
Edited by Pointer, May 28 2018, 06:37 PM.

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It is maybe a science failure but consider this:

They're able to react to a bullet when normal humans couldn't, and bullets obviously aren't living beings so they can't have ki of their own. This is all when they were in Dragon Ball. So their eyes aren't the same as a regular human's.

The afterimage was a big deal but like said before, it's probably only useful when you're as fast as your opponent and they can't sense you. In Z, it's like everyone and their dog can use that technique so they logically know how to counter it.

KI sense is useful when your opponent is hiding somewhere but that's about it.
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Some fighters don't have complete skill and mastery even. Remember when Super Buu covered the area with smoke thinking he'd have the advantage against Vegito. But easily Vegito beat him up within. There's a lot of moments where fighters think sight is the main thing with fighting. Even Tien makes that mistake in Dragon Ball.
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May 28 2018, 07:36 PM
Some fighters don't have complete skill and mastery even. Remember when Super Buu covered the area with smoke thinking he'd have the advantage against Vegito. But easily Vegito beat him up within. There's a lot of moments where fighters think sight is the main thing with fighting. Even Tien makes that mistake in Dragon Ball.
Wasnt the ki sensing the winning factor when goku had a fight with mr popo ?


Goki couldnt sense ki thus he was in a disadvantage

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So, remind me again why we are enforcing the limitations or the properties of human eyes, on to that of the eyes of a different species or basically an alien?


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Pointer
May 28 2018, 08:12 PM
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May 28 2018, 07:36 PM
Some fighters don't have complete skill and mastery even. Remember when Super Buu covered the area with smoke thinking he'd have the advantage against Vegito. But easily Vegito beat him up within. There's a lot of moments where fighters think sight is the main thing with fighting. Even Tien makes that mistake in Dragon Ball.
Wasnt the ki sensing the winning factor when goku had a fight with mr popo ?


Goki couldnt sense ki thus he was in a disadvantage
Yeah, I believe that's what was going on there. But it wasn't that Goku couldn't sense ki, it was that he relied too much on his eyesight and hadn't mastered ki sense. Goku sensed King Piccolo's ki after drinking the Ultra Divine Water, that's how he knew how to get to King's Castle.
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