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- The 25th Tenkaichi Budokai goes uninterrupted...
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| The 25th Tenkaichi Budokai goes uninterrupted... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 27 2018, 04:02 PM (4,548 Views) | |
| Notaka | May 30 2018, 10:16 PM Post #121 |
Always Wright
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Of course. Though I'm not the one ignoring the "Base Saiyans < Frieza" quote which hasn't been disproved in the show, and instead insist on the superior position quote who died a few chapters later. Ah, but I'll continue making stuff up, since that's what I do best. Trust nobody not even yourself
Beerus saying a lot of things that are crap kind of reminds me of Vegeta. You know, the dude whose quote meant nothing in the next 10 chapters or so? Beerus using 10% of his power isn't contradictory. instead of using 0.00000126784561% of his power, he just opted for 10% which is simpler to do The second, actually a fair point.
I just decided to be a rude smarta** instead of saying that Bills is a false translation name(I think) Sorry Edited by Notaka, May 30 2018, 10:18 PM.
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 "My name is Kakyoin Noriaki!" Thanks to Graffiti for the Sig!  | |
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| + Son-Goku | May 30 2018, 10:17 PM Post #122 |
孫悟空
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Likely because they were the focus of those specific fights and they knew they had a lot of power. Not base form, beyond that.
Already told you it's been explained enough. If you didn't listen to anyone before, why would you listen now?
It's implied she would be suppressed. Why the heck would 18 be going all out against someone she believes to be a little above average human? You still have not given a clear point on the kaioken issue, once again. It is very very clear that Kaioken x20 is 20 times the power. So obviously Super Saiyan is greater than that. You say Super Saiyan is like 3x or something like that? That's crazy, considering it's not implied in the slightest and would give zero reason to use the form. Goku would continually be using Kaioken if that were the case. You can't just make things up to try and support what you believe when it doesn't work with the rest of the story. You talk about contradictions, but you're making one right there by giving a minuscule boost that is clearly not true. |
 RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power | |
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| Topographic Oceans | May 30 2018, 10:19 PM Post #123 |
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Doesn't Super establish that the Hakaishin's life is tied to that of his universe's Kaioshin, similarly to Piccolo/God? Shin is the last Kaioshin of U7, Beerus should be aware of his existence, unless there's something in Super or BoG directly confirming that he isn't. And I was being a smartass too, lol. I know full well his name is Beers. Edited by Topographic Oceans, May 30 2018, 10:22 PM.
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| Notaka | May 30 2018, 10:22 PM Post #124 |
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Always Wright
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Well for one, wasn't Kaioshin unaware of Beerus until he woke up? It could have very well be the same for Beerus. Also, I feel the need to mention it, but Kaioshin didn't exist the time Beerus made his statement ? He was still fused. I mean, the most logical answer is that Beerus just happened to think of Frieza, as he's more infamous. |
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| EMIYA | May 30 2018, 10:24 PM Post #125 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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I don't think you're getting that point. If Beerus is using 10% of his power, that means he has 90% left. Mathematically speaking, there's only so far he can go. Think of it like this. Rage Vegeta: 10 10% Beerus: 12 mathematically speaking 100% Beerus has to be "120." but then you have Super Saiyan God Goku who...needless to say...is much stronger than Rage Vegeta. Then you have Super Saiyan Blue which is even stronger and then you give that form the 10x KK boost. Unless the gap between 10% Beerus and Rage Vegeta was much, much, much larger than what was shown on screen, it is mathematically impossible for Beerus to be stronger than KK10 Goku at the tournament. Now I think the problem here was just a lack of information on the writer's part. I have a feeling they utterly forgot, might have thought 10% did sound pretty good but in the end, the story line ended contradicting previous information. Overall, the writers probably never realized that the 10% line was going to bite them in the rear later on. Edited by EMIYA, May 30 2018, 10:25 PM.
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| Notaka | May 30 2018, 10:29 PM Post #126 |
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Always Wright
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It's a matter of Beerus just not deciding to bother how much he needs to use, but to go 10% and end the fight. Like I said, it's easier to just go 10% and end the fight rather than, I dunno, counting that you need to use 0.00000126784561% of your power and then adjust to it. I agree that they've shot themselves in the feet with that line but it can easily be explained. |
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| EMIYA | May 30 2018, 11:18 PM Post #127 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Actually let's compare Vegeta and Beerus. Beerus states that Vegeta used up all of his power and is proven wrong hardly 10 seconds later. While the word "arrogant" may not be the right term, he is definitely ignorant. If Vegeta's statements must hold no merit whatsoever because he was proven wrong on one point (his superiority to Goku) why should Beerus be treated as any different. Both were wrong so both naturally must never be trusted. But that's not how it works, because both sides have a truth or understanding behind them. Why did Beerus make his line? Because Vegeta literally blew himself up, was ragged and broken by the end. Regardless of how Vegeta got his power back, Beerus and even the viewer, had every reason to think that Vegeta was out of energy. Beerus being proven wrong doesn't mean he's some idiot who can't be trusted, it just means information that wasn't privy to him...be that some hidden energy or BS writing... Vegeta is no different. Why is Vegeta confident when he says he can win the tournament in Base? Because until later, all the information he has right now points to that objective. If he thinks he can win, doesn't that mean he holds confidence against people like No. 18 and Freeza as they were in the past? He's wrong about Goku because he and eventually the readers, are given new information. Information is the important word here. Vegeta and Beerus are both presented with information that they use and when they are wrong, it was because of outside information beyond them. Vegeta has "information" in terms of power, skills and the likes of people such as No. 18 and Freeza. When Vegeta is apparently weaker than Freeza, his statements of so called "Superiority" do not merit much logical sense. It means he is not using the very real "information" that he has with him to make a sound choice. That's not arrogance or even ignorance, it's something much lower and duller. It's not something a guy like Vegea, praised for his supposed fighting intellect, would go to. That adds to another point that should be said. Just because Vegeta is wrong about being stronger than Boo Arc Goku, doesn't meant he's wrong about every form of Goku. That seems to be a popular error people seem to use. It's like, well Vegeta was wrong about being stronger than Goku. Yes, he was wrong...about Goku...about information that was not present to him at the time. That doesn't mean he isn't stronger than Cell Games Goku. Let's compare two other characters, Krillin and No.16. No. 16 states that despite how powerful Cell has become, Vegeta is superior in every way. Krillin though, readily admits that Cell is holding back, much like Trunks and Vegeta is going to die if this keeps up. There's no reason to think No. 16 is some idiot, whatever his"readings" are is probably true. But unlike No. 16, Krillin is privy on information that No.16 is not. Therefore, while both have merit to their confidence, one has more information than the other. Another example might be No. 19 vs Vegeta. No. 20 has every reason to believe that "Base Vegeta" can't beat No. 19 but lacks information that Vegeta also has Super Saiyan. |
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| + Son-Goku | May 30 2018, 11:52 PM Post #128 |
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孫悟空
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Quoting this, because I don't know if you missed it or not. |
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RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power | |
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| EMIYA | May 31 2018, 12:24 AM Post #129 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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No they didn't, they were as shocked as Kaioshin was when the Saiyans transformed. Dabura, Babidi and even Kaioshin were all shocked at the Super Saiyan transformations. Kaioshin himself, who had directly seen both SSJ and SSJ2 Gohan, acted like Goku's transformation on the ship was this brand new thing. He even tells Kibito that he never saw Gohan's real power, despite Kibito being there to see SSj2 Gohan. It's just the evidence of how all the Super Saiyan action in the tournament is either being ignored and/or retconned here and Dabura and Babidi are just as mind blown.
Because the kids themselves are actually taking the fight seriously. There's no way No. 18 would be able to handle the kids unless she specifically readied herself or automatically readied herself for such a fight. No. 18 should've been beaten around senselessly by the kids until she finally realized she needed to utilize more power than against a "normal human." But instead, No. 18 immediately is able to fight it out with the kids. There's no sense of holding back for No. 18. That is literally nothing more than assumption.
No it hasn't good sir. The only excuse you or anyone else has said is that Vegeta is essentially mentally handicapped, and snorts crack.
I don't care what Kaioken or even Super Saiyan was in the past, I care what the story tries to show and while this can lead to inconsistencies, that's just the sake of the story. It is very clear to me that some of you want the story to follow your numbers or your beliefs,when in fact, it should be the exact opposite. So many of you want to use a 50x SSJ amp (which is fair to be honest) but you also want Piccolo to be on Super Saiyan Vegeta's level at the Cell Games. Meanwhile you only want Gohan to be a bit a head of Goku. However, when several feats and statements prove this otherwise, instead of manipulating your previous data that could better fit this. Such as increasing Gohan's range or lowering Piccolo,or utilizing smaller amps, etc. You try to twist things around so that the story somehow fits your criteria. And needless to say, that's not how it works here and to be honest,it's gotten really annoying. Because I was exactly like that in the past. I thought that since something didn't fit my criteria, or something didn't make sense, I could just twist it around. Instead, as best as I can, I need to utilize the information given and do my best to try to fit it with what the story tell mes. And in the end, that might simply lead to a point that is illogical but what the story wants.
No, it's just that everyone minus perhaps Piccolo, is stupid and near brain dead. Vegeta was confident but since he was wrong about Goku, he was automatically wrong about everything. The same way everyone who thought Base Gotenks might actually have a chance against Boo are now automatically idiots. Beerus was wrong about Vegeta and even seem to outright lie about his own power, makes him an idiot. So, yes...you're right...nobody is trustworthy. Everybody is an idiot and the only person who never lied was Kid Boo. |
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| Notaka | May 31 2018, 12:06 PM Post #130 |
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Always Wright
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Meh, we could really bicker back and forth with this. I'm still not convinced by Vegeta's quote and 18's fight.
Edited by Notaka, May 31 2018, 12:28 PM.
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| superperfectnerd | May 31 2018, 07:37 PM Post #131 |
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How slowly do you think these super reflexed fighters adjust? 18 can lower and raise her power level, an opponent charges at her with enough speed and force her muscle memory will still adjust to what she's seeing almost instantaneously. Like Trunks smacking away energy blasts with a level of only 5 according to the scouter. Holding back doesn't work the way you describe it, they're only vulnerable when they lower their guard. 18 was surprised by her opponent's unusual strength, nothing more than that has to be the case. Are Goten and Trunks really meant to be beyond ROSAT trained Cell saga saiyans/
Edited by superperfectnerd, May 31 2018, 07:39 PM.
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| Mike XL | Jun 1 2018, 12:05 AM Post #132 |
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The fact that these debates rage on after 20+ years since the Buu saga ended proves one thing for sure, that Toriyama wrote a clusterf*** of an arc. |
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| PF18 | Jun 1 2018, 11:18 PM Post #133 |
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Am i missing something? How does this get to 9 pages? It totally depends on whether or not Piccolo forfeits to Kaioshin out of respect like he did in the original story. In pure power Piccolo is by far the strongest. (assuming that none of the Saiyans can transform.)
Edited by PF18, Jun 1 2018, 11:19 PM.
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| + Son-Goku | Jun 2 2018, 12:37 AM Post #134 |
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孫悟空
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That's what's been being discussed. Some people believe Piccolo>Base saiayns. |
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RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power | |
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| PF18 | Jun 2 2018, 12:59 AM Post #135 |
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Didn't Beerus confirm that Piccolo>Base Saiyans? I have no idea how this is even up for debate. There's nothing to contradict this other than Vegeta making a cocky comment that cannot be taken seriously. |
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