Clearin

May 29 2018, 08:38 PM

Vegeta was already sweating because he'd been training.

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Vegeta will admit when he's wrong or outclassed if he knows he is. He admitted he couldn't handle Freeza multiple times, he admitted the androids and Cell surpassed him, he admitted Goku surpassed him at the Cell Games, he admitted Gohan also surpassed him, he admitted Majin Boo was too strong for him, and so on. He's arrogant, but only when he has little reason to believe he's been surpassed. He didn't know Goku had gotten much stronger, and thus assumed he would win the tournament regardless. At this point, even we as the audience would have no evidence Vegeta was wrong either.

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Yes. Yes, I do mean to tell you he's right until proven wrong. That's how statements are handled, otherwise you slide into the territory of making things up for your own personal biases.

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The debate's been done to death, but basically, you could argue the same thing. If she was so much stronger than them, why not just use more power and knock them out of the ring? Problem solved, she gets to move on and get her money, which is the only reason she joined the tournament in the first place. She clearly wasn't superior to the Super Saiyan kids, considering she shat herself when Trunks's suppressed blast whizzed by her. She could very well be stronger than them without Super Saiyan, though.

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He didn't know Goku had gotten much stronger? So in other terms, Vegeta being Vegeta. He didn't think Perfect Cell would hand his a** to him, yet he still did.

I do have evidence Vegeta was wrong. He thinks his superior position wouldn't change yet Goku surpasses him. Also, what if Piccolo and 18 were suppressed ? When was the last time Vegeta ever saw them? They could've gotten stronger these past 7 years. There's no way he can say his superior position wouldn't change when he doesn't know how strong the others are. He only knows Gohan and Krillin are weaker than him but that's about it.

I don't get why his quote is treated as a holy grail.
Chapter: 430 (DBZ 236), P6.5-6
Context: after Gohan asks that nobody becomes a Super Saiyan in the tournament
Vegeta: “…Well, I guess that’s fine. If nobody becomes a Super Saiyan, then the conditions are the same. My superior position doesn’t change…”

You can't read this and not pass it off as complete arrogance. He's not proven wrong, but I won't give him the benefit of the doubt based on him being wrong most of the times.

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Using a 3x boost makes those levels you posted highly inaccurate. You didn't prove your point.

EMIYA

May 29 2018, 09:26 PM

Absolutely nothing says it can't happen.

EMIYA

May 30 2018, 12:41 AM

I don't really care what Goku needed on Namek, what he needed on Namek clearly isn't what he or the rest of the Saiyans need in the Boo ARc.

EMIYA

May 29 2018, 08:19 PM

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Zarbon couldn’t land a hit on Vegeta despite being over 90% of him. Using Goten not landing a hit on Gohan to say there’s a big gap is just a really poor argument, especially since that’s from their first sparring match and not their second sparring match where they’re both going all out and have their auras flared.

Both Trunks and Vegeta are sweating, auras flared and Trunks even lands a hit and throughout the whole thing, both are dead serious.

By that logic Kid Trunks must be on par with Vegeta.

EMIYA

 

We literally have several indications if not outright statements from characters supporting the Base Saiyans notion and yet so many people seem to want to "twist" that around to suit their agenda. Things like.
- Everyone was supresssed even though Babidi and Dabura were able to specifically point out everyone and could even tell Kaioshin and Kibito were there.

EMIYA

 

Yet a dance fusion of Goku and Vegeta is considered powerful enough to worry Gotenks Boo. Logically and number wise, this is absolutely impossible but it doesn't matter what the supposed "numbers" are. What matters is what the story deems and in such a case here, the story deemed a fusion of Goku and Vegeta to be 50x+ stronger than Gotenks' own Pre-ROSAT fusion.

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Daizenshuu 2 states Goten's battle power isn't the least bit inferior to Gohan's

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Piccolo tells everyone to suppress their Ki, but saying they were suppressed is twisting things around? It's also incredibly obvious that Dabra and Bobbidi can't sense Ki, so they must've figured out everyone was on top of the cliff by some other means.

EMIYA

 

I feel like you and anyone else who tries to pull up the "Vegeta is Arrogant" card is really missing the point here. The point is that, Vegeta has fought against No. 18 in the past, has seen the power of PIccolo, felt it against Imperfect Cell and the Cell Games. He's seen Piccolo walk out of the ROSAT and knows what they were capable of in the past and knows what he himself is capable of.

It makes no sense for Vegeta, to act like he can beat No. 18 in Base if he's somehow still weaker than Freeza. That's not arrogance, that's purely stupidity and Vegeta was never so idiotic to make that mistake. What power No. 18 or Piccolo may have gotten throughout the 7 years does not matter. What matters is when the last time Vegeta saw them.

Because the argument to make Vegeta weaker than Freeza, literally lies on Vegeta being a complete idiot who got his brain blended after Super Perfect Cell slapped him silly. It's an argument that is literally saying that Vegeta is so stupid, so brain dead, that despite clearly being weaker than Freeza, he still has the gall to claim he can, at the very least, beat No. 18.