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How should we tackle obesity?
Topic Started: May 15 2018, 02:18 PM (742 Views)
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Crazy Awesome Legend

The British government is announcing new plans to ban advertisements of junk food during the daytime, in particular those aimed at children. What more can we do as a species to overcome the growing obesity problems in the world?

I think we should invest in better cookery classes in schools, with an extra focus on nutrition. It's an unfortunate reality that parents will spend long hours at work and so they might not have the time to teach their children cookery skills.

I'm not in favour of going as far as to put junk food in plain packaging. That seems a bit harsh on the manufacturers. They should still have a right to advertise.

There's an issue that cheaper food tends to be less healthy for us. Low income families can struggle to provide a healthy diet since it costs more to stock up on cooking supplies than it does to buy some baked beans, chips and fish fingers.

City kids have nowhere to play. A council puts up a play park and within a week its been vandalised. So they've stopped bothering and now kids are stuck indoors all the time. All they need is a large open, green space to kick a ball around. And there aren't enough of them unfortunately.

Make PE classes better. I was fortunate at my school because even though our PE teachers were clueless, we had a lot of activities we could take part in and a huge field to do them in. As well as a full sized basketball court, a field hockey cage and a gymnasium. But not every school has this luxury. So more should be done here.

Now this next one might be a bit radical but I think they should stop airing any television until 5pm. Not so much for the kids but for the adults who lay about getting fat whilst watching daytime tv trash. Come on there's literally nothing worth watching before 5pm. Might as well stop it being broadcast to get people off their asses a bit more.



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Rockman
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I say there is no point. People are going to eat what they want regardless of what anyone says. I can't tell you the number of times i've heard the tired a** excuse of, "Good on you for being a vegetarian, I could never do that."
The only limit a person has to their habits is their own mind. Not everyone is capable of changing and thus some don't.
You can tell an obese person that the massive amounts of meats and fried foods they eat is not healthy. You can tell them they need to change or they are going to end up with health problems. But you can't force them to change any of that. Not even with regulation and definitely not the government's place to do so. It starts with that person making the change and sticking to it.
It is a proven fact that a strict diet of greens, fruits, and nuts not only causes you to lose weight, but also can fix some health issues like Diabetes (II). My own dad is an example of this.

Making food "healthier" by taking out certain elements that cause weight gain sometimes has bad consequences. Some of the chemicals and food additives added to make it taste just as good as the original sometimes is actually worse than the original. Definitely worse than not eating it at all.

Not to mention that it's almost twice expensive to be a vegetarian than to eat fast food and quick meals everyday. I guarantee you King Gattsu spends less than half the amount on food every week than I do. But also is skinnier due to the hard labor he does as a job.
Edited by Rockman, May 15 2018, 02:46 PM.
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TrunksinSwimmingTrunks
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I think it's important for good habits to be ingrained as early as possible. People shouldn't get to adulthood before they start to build a healthy foundation for their - because a healthy diet should just be part of your thoughtless foundation, not something you have to actively think about much. As a kid and then teenager I didn't eat foods high in refined sugars much or drink fizzy drinks or much salt and now as an adult it's quite easy for me to avoid those things still, since I almost never crave them and they aren't the first thing that comes to mind if I'm hungry. The food I eat is largely the food that I grew up with, which tends to be high-starch foods like rice, pasta and oats and in pulses, so still not ideal, but healthier than a lot of other more processed stuff. I struggle to consistently add in healthy things that I'm not as used to, like fruit and meat.

As for how to get good habits ingrained? I'd say educating parents of young children in a semi-formal environment and making sure kids have proper nutrition and exercise education in school will go some way. Cooking should be compulsory in schools for both boys and girls and basic cooking workshops should be available for parents in libraries or schools (similar to how over here in public libraries we have free workshops to teach people how to use the computers). The earlier that people learn that cooking healthy food isn't always expensive or difficult, the better. When I was a kid I never learnt how to cook, but it was always made clear that processed food was more expensive that home-made food.

Based on my experience, I highly doubt it really is cheaper to eat fast food, per a calorie or in terms of micronutrients. It is definitely more convenient, especially if someone can't easily cook much that is palatable for themselves and is already struggling to learn how to navigate through professional and social environments and doesn't have much energy left to learn to cook.

For a couple of months - due to bad planning - I regularly bought supermarket brand sandwiches (cheese and onion), which were about £1.10 for around 550 calories and is made up of 16 slices. A loaf of wholemeal bread is about £0.55 and a can of sardines is about £0.40. A block of cheese that could last me a week is about £3.50. 2 slices of bread with a can of sardines comes out to about £0.47 and if I add margarine/butter and some mayo or dressing, it's still going to come out to less 70p. With cheese it'll still easily come out to under £1.00 for 550 calories.

A £1.50 1kg bag of brown rice lasts me 7+ meals. I'm not exactly a chef, but boiling that and adding in some mixed veg, canned pulses and like two spices and some yoghurt and oil comfortably gets me 1000 calories for 1.00 at most, in under half an hour. Compare that to a ready meal, where for 1.00 I'd be lucky to get 500 calories.

75g (dry) of pasta gives more calories than a pack of ramen noodles (which are supposedly inexpensive). Pasta is about £0.50 for 500g, ramen noodles at their cheapest are about £0.25 a pack (often twice that in many shops). I'd have to spend about £0.85 to get 1000 calories out of packet noodles. With pasta I'd spend like £0.29 for that. A sauce made from cheap passata and some veg is only going to set me back around 15p. If someone isn't okay with it being vegetarian, they could throw in a tin of mackerel or tuna for £0.60 - £0.90, which would make it more expensive than the noodles, but you'd be getting way more vitamins and it'd only take 15 minutes more than the ramen.

For snacks, a bag of mixed nuts and raisins is about as cheap as a chocolate bar per a calorie.

Those are just a few examples, but it's pretty true across the board I'd say. I bought a full small chicken for £1.99 today. Buying burgers to put in the oven would cost me several times more per kg of meat.

So again, I think it is more about knowledge and cooking skills than cost.

edit: I would like to add that the above really is mostly only addressing prevention. Remedying obesity is more difficult, because of course the longer someone has been following unhealthy habits, the harder it is for them to break those habits and if they are severely overweight, they will have to stick to good habits for a long time for them to get back to being healthy. I don't know many significantly overweight people personally (I have a very overweight uncle and another who was skinny fat and has been diabetic since 45ish), but I'm sure that for someone who is very obese, insecurities can often play a role. For example, I work in leisure centres and many people who are overweight may feel embarrassed about going to the gym. Likewise, there was a landmark epidemiological study called the ACE Study, which started out after a doctor in an obesity wondered why so many of his patients would lose weight and then put it back on. He found that a lot of them put it back on because they had previous trauma which made them want to stay overweight (e.g. fear of being raped if too attractive, fear of being beaten up if not large enough). You can read about that study here: Link
Edited by TrunksinSwimmingTrunks, May 16 2018, 11:25 PM.
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There's another common issue I discovered with over weight people. Sometimes it turns out that as children they were forced to clear their plates before they could do anything else. Or similarly they ate what they could get because they didn't know where their next meal was coming from. These bad habits continue into adult life and rub off on their children.


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TrunksinSwimmingTrunks
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That's interesting. I do know a lot of skinny people who are like that too in the UK, especially from foreign ethnic backgrounds. I was regularly force fed plates of food that would make a grown man struggle, to the point of me often eating my own snot and tears with my meal (haha) and I do have a hard time knowing when I've had enough to eat. For sure, I can see how being force fed in specific ways or not knowing where your next meal is coming from - or even just being taught that you should never say "no" to food - could lead to overeating as an adult.
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It'll be difficult. Only realistic way I can think of is if we start genetically engineering the population to eat less and be more active.
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TrunksinSwimmingTrunks
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May 16 2018, 11:54 PM
It'll be difficult. Only realistic way I can think of is if we start genetically engineering the population to eat less and be more active.
Better go to the future where they've fully learnt how human brains work first!
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Doesn't Japan have a pretty strict way to control obesity? Looks like it's working. Maybe we can try doing what they do?

People will complain and say "THE LAW IS OFFENDING MY RIGHT TO BE UNHEALTHY AND f*** UP LIFE FOR EVERYONE ELSE DERP DERP"
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, May 17 2018, 12:26 AM.
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Realistically speaking only a proper education regarding health and nutrition can be effective. That, plus inciting younger generations to develop a critical mind so that they're more inclined to make their own choices according to what they deem right for them. People are too passive in regards to what they consume and what they do in their lives these days -- there's a certain comfort about having other people / the media dictate what to do in your life that people seem to buy into way too easily as a way to fit in and not have to put much thought into their own actions, but in reality all that does is create this massive identity issue and moral apathy that I believe to be at the root of many of our social problems.

I guess there are also a lot of points to be made about making healthier, non-processed food more appealing to the masses, but that could also be included in educational programs.

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It is ultimately up to both the parents to raise their kids to value nutrition and health, and the kid themselves to make that push towards a healthy lifestyle. Or at the very least to exercise whenever they get the chance.

I've already shared the story like, years ago now. But I was a Sophomore in High School and weighed about 270 lbs, you know you get the occasional remark from your parents about how you should do such and such or go for a walk or run (which when you're dealing with social anxiety and poor self-esteem, is hard to make that first effort and stay on track). If I hadn't decided myself to get involved in weightlifting and calisthenics, I'd probably be weighing far more than I currently do.
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Yeah, cooking classes and stuff would be one of my suggestions.

And also.

STOP MAKING COKE CHEAPER THAN WATER, Christ. Is that not ridiculous?
I can buy a 1.5 litre bottle of Coke for like £1 but depending on the brand it might cost £1 for a 500ml bottle of water.
That's just insane, it makes sense how it got that way but it's insane.


But yeah, cooking classes.
I went to one as part of a work programme thing called Calman that was basically just something to put on your CV.
It was fun, the whole idea of it was learning how to make meals on a budget and they were damn good.
We made healthy soups of various types, which I still make to this day. They're easy and cost all of like £5-7 to make and that's usually enough for two whole batches, more if you're feeding one person.
We made sticky toffee pudding and various cakes too, all healthier than your supermarket crap.
As well as pasta dishes and other things like that, it was great and very enlightening. Before that me and my girlfriend were lazy f***s, most of the time I'd be eating Rustlers burgers and whatnot because it was easier...and way more expensive than you realize.


As said instilling good habits early on would be very effective.

Do you want to know what I remember of cooking in school? Not much, just my teacher being an a***** and it never being fun. I barely remember anything we did because they made it a chore when just the cooking part is a learning experience on it's own.
I understand the importance of teaching people hygiene and stuff but Home Economics was bogged down by that sort of stuff and what should be a fun experience just wasn't.
In Calman we were taught to clean as we go, to be careful about meat etc etc(not that I didn't already know) it was part of the experience, not something we had to study textbooks over.
That should be part of the higher education side of it I think.

Really I think it is that simple, I see many obese children around and their bad habits and poor diet stem from their parents, teach kids to control their own diet and make it healthy, that can only have a positive knock on effect for everyone else.
With a bit of gumption you can make £10 in to like 3 proper meals.
Or you can buy one microwave lasagne for £4 and feel s*** afterwards having consumed an excess amount of fat and other general badness from cheap unhealthy ingredients.
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TrunksinSwimmingTrunks
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Goddess Ultimecia
May 17 2018, 12:53 AM
It is ultimately up to both the parents to raise their kids to value nutrition and health, and the kid themselves to make that push towards a healthy lifestyle. Or at the very least to exercise whenever they get the chance.

I've already shared the story like, years ago now. But I was a Sophomore in High School and weighed about 270 lbs, you know you get the occasional remark from your parents about how you should do such and such or go for a walk or run (which when you're dealing with social anxiety and poor self-esteem, is hard to make that first effort and stay on track). If I hadn't decided myself to get involved in weightlifting and calisthenics, I'd probably be weighing far more than I currently do.
What about when parents don't have that knowledge? Wouldn't it be better if the government took steps to improve education so that kids wouldn't have to make as big an effort to lose weight, during a time when they should be focusing on playing, socialising and setting up their professional future? Sure, that's great that you've done what you've done and some kids will eventually find the inspiration and opportunity to improve their health through changing their diet and doing exercise, but that's only going to be a certain percentage of kids and everyone is going to find that inspiration and opportunity at different times. If we want the best results, it's best to take steps to make them as likely as possible, which means not leaving it up to luck. It's just like ff you want a world-beating sports team, you don't simply leave it up to luck and say "some kids will get inspired and train hard and smartly enough to be world class", you set up the best coaching and facilities possible so that you maximise the chances of producing world class athletes. The same goes for education - countries that perform the best aren't just leaving it up to chance.

The government should be involved, because the whole country suffers when due to obesity the cost of healthcare increases and people professionally underachieve due to poor health.

@SSj3Vegito96 What is this Japanese approach you speak of?

That Calman approach to it sounds practical. Really, that's life-changing
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Quote:
 
That Calman approach to it sounds practical. Really, that's life-changing


Yeah, it was. Honestly. I feel so much healthier these days and save so much more money, much more mindful of what I buy.
Though I don't consistently make everything we learned there I am a lot more practical in the kitchen and often try new things now, we also got given a certificate and a bag of the recipes we made as well as some other bits and pieces like measuring cups and whatnot.

If schools could function the same way it would be brilliant.


The problem with relying on parents is that some parents just...kinda suck?

You can't really depend on them to take an active interest in every aspect of their children's lives and provide accurate or healthy information, they should, but they often don't.
Much the same as sex education, should be taught in schools.

My "talk" with my biological father went as follows:
"Just shag a load slappers" (British slang for lovely lady, as in the promiscuous kind, I have been censored damn you!)

And every time I went to stay at his our diet would consist of takeaways and those horrible processed smoked sausages.
If I grew up with him I'd probably be paying child maintenance for a bunch of illegitimate children and would be fat as heck :rofl:
Edited by Steve, May 17 2018, 11:49 AM.
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It's also not always entirely eating habits that makes people obese. It's also a sedentary lifestyle. People should realize that if you get your a** up and be active and exercise you will lose weight and sometimes you can even get away with eating more or eating junk from time to time
IT'S CHEESE
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

One of the biggest problems is that some countries, such as the USA, makes bad eating habits a commonality. People aren't really that picky with what they eat. If it was possible to make Grilled Food incredibly easy to pick up at your local fast food, people would happily change to it. Instead things like fried food and all that is not only easy to get, but incredibly cheap to get too and while some places will cater to different options, might have a salad, it's clear to what their main purpose is.

The idea is that, we need to make such unhealthy options, harder to get, they need to be treated as almost luxuries instead of the common placed items.

I myself can go to McDonalds and get a Mcdouble, McChicken, Large Fries and a Large Drink, all for about $6, and it would take maybe 2-3 minutes to get.

Meanwhile, it might cost twice as much, if not more to fix a wholesome meal from the grocery store and take anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour to fix. Why take the time and effort and cost to fix a healthy meal, when your local fast food provide you with a quick bite for a cheap cost? The whole thing is basically backwards. Healthier options that are necessary are harder and costlier to get while the less healthier options are less than 7 year old's allowance.

There's also a point that, people have become accustomed to such unhealthy options. Their human biology in a sense, craves these greasy, fried foods and when its incredibly easy to obtain them, well that just leads to more issues.
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