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| Cultural appropriation | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 30 2018, 02:30 PM (1,239 Views) | |
| + Pelador | Apr 30 2018, 02:30 PM Post #1 |
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Crazy Awesome Legend
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43947959 This young lady has triggered a debate about cultural appropriation after she wore a traditional Chinese dress to her prom. This is a difficult one for me as I can understand both points of view. The style of dress represents something important in Chinese culture. It should definitely be respected. When it is used to mock or sexualise then obviously that's out of order. But this young woman wasn't doing either of these things. She thought it looked nice and so she wore it to her prom night. It's perhaps somewhat ignorant of her but it's fairly innocent. I don't think a culture should be allowed to hold a license on who can and cannot wear their style of clothing. No one gets called out for wearing Lederhosen at Octoberfest. Or when princess Tiana from Disney's The Princess and the Frog wore traditional European style, ballroom gowns. I think the whole, "You're not Asian so you can't wear that." is a little bit unfair. As long as it's tasteful, accurate and respectful then there shouldn't be too much of an issue. And there is a slippery slope element to this too. Where is the line? Do Africans have to stop wearing European style clothes? Should we ban baseball caps from being sold in Nigeria? Flat caps and tweed can only be worn by English people who live in the countryside? Of course there are good reasons why we shouldn't wear some things. Afro wigs, blacking up, dressing like Geishas or wearing a kilt with clan colours when you aren't Scottish is definitely crossing a line. But at the same time we should remember that everyone has a right to express themselves. Edited by Pelador, Apr 30 2018, 02:32 PM.
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| Rockman | Apr 30 2018, 02:45 PM Post #2 |
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hoighty-toighty
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Wasn't there a member here who had a video stating that cultural appropriation was the greatest human tragedy of our generation. Or something like that... Where he at? I wanna hear him speak about this. |
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| + Ginyu | Apr 30 2018, 05:11 PM Post #3 |
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Leve Feyenoord 1!
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What is it with these people who want to prevent others from mimicking their culture? Whenever people mimick my culture I always think it's cool or funny. Never offended, always excited. People need to stop whining. |
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| + Green | May 1 2018, 06:28 PM Post #4 |
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Flashy Thing!
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I feel like you basically just said "I don't have a problem with it so no one else should". You need to shift your perspective to that of the offended person to have a better understanding of why cultural appropriation may be viewed as a problem. |
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| + Steve | May 1 2018, 07:39 PM Post #5 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Have you ever noticed how it's almost always people who aren't actually part of the culture that get mad? Chinese people don't actually care, if they did they wouldn't ship these clothes internationally, that goes for virtually every form of traditional dress you can buy online. They choose to ship internationally because they obviously don't give a damn. Most of these things are regular clothes, not something deeply sacred that people pray to. A Chinese dress is super regular in China, it doesn't have some deep cultural significance beyond "It's from China and is traditional" their whole culture doesn't revolve around clothes, that's silly. Cultural appropriation is the most annoying part of outrage culture I find. 99% of the time it's literally people who aren't a part of said culture getting angry for people who don't care. If you were to go through the list of all the people that liked the tweet about this, I bet few of them would actually be Chinese and the ones that are probably only have Chinese heritage but have probably never been in or all that involved with China. Guarantee. You don't get to police what people wear. It's not against the law. Unless someone literally takes something of actual cultural significance and claims they invented it there is no actual issue, people just want to be angry. You don't need my permission to wear a kilt, wear one if you damn well want it's just a fancy skirt. Also the idea that clothes are what your culture hinges on is just silly, sometimes they have huge significance for sure but here...it's just a dress. Quite literally a pretty regular, nice looking dress. It's not for Chinese people, it's for whoever buys and wants to wear it unless otherwise expressly stated by the law. At best it's a fashion faux pas, people might not like it but you're entitled to wear whatever the hell you want so long as you're not actually hurting anyone. I can't imagine the dollars whatever site she purchased that from hurt their business or that they'd burn their place of business down had they known they sold something to a filthy whitey. By the way the Top Hat was invented by an Englishman and I'm like 25% English so if you wear a Top Hat and you aren't part English, you are literally ruining 25% of my life. How dare you. |
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| Dankness Lava | May 1 2018, 07:50 PM Post #6 |
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Dankness Forever
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No, offended people just need to get out of their feelings. |
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| Tinny | May 2 2018, 01:54 AM Post #7 |
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Which is an interesting statement coming from someone who's never actually experienced any meaningful cultural appropriation. If you're willing to listen for a half hour, Lindsey Ellis did a great piece on just what cultural appropriation is, how murky it is, and a particularly favorite part of mine, gave an example of Indians appropriating American culture (which basically happens never because we rule the planet and have such a huge presence in entertainment media). https://youtu.be/2ARX0-AylFI?t=810 this is the example specifically and this is the video from the beginning. I can't quite sum it up in a gif, so I really encourage you to watch it, and then for a minute imagine. This is basically the only kind of representation you get. Ever. This is all anyone thinks about when they think of your country, at times not even realizing or considering that there is more or that this is an exaggerated or inaccurate take on your culture. It's fine because well, ours is the dominant culture, so it's just funny to see them getting it so wrong but consider a world where that is all people know about America. Again, people see and actually believe that this is a good image of what America looks like. People have the right to be offended when their culture is not represented properly or well, and it's fine to critique a piece, a person, anything, for not representing the culture well. Anyone who has an issue with it on the other hand should, and I quote
You'll have to forgive me if I have little sympathy towards those who complain about people complaining about their culture being appropriated wrongly, but it seems like the most petty complaint that I consistently see, I suppose there's worse like complaining about women getting a free screening at a later date in a regular movie theater, or that black people are going to see Black Panther a lot, but those happen in bursts and tend to be colored more by outright malicious sexism and racism than this. Edited by Tinny, May 2 2018, 02:05 AM.
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| Dankness Lava | May 2 2018, 02:08 AM Post #8 |
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Dankness Forever
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Okay, look, I understand why it can be an issue. I understand why people would be annoyed at misrepresentation of their culture. I'm not gonna act like it's a non-issue. But at the same time, I think people get too carried away with emotional weight instead of trying to actually explain why it's wrong. Of course, I'm more going off of what I hear people do as a reaction instead of seeing their reactions myself, so if what I said they do is incorrect then my bad. |
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| Tinny | May 2 2018, 02:22 AM Post #9 |
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May I ask what you exactly mean by "carried away with emotional weight instead of trying to actually explain why it's wrong"? Keep in mind for most of the cultures being appropriated, it's been this way for years, likely since before they took their first look outside their mother's womb. And it's all they ever get, a Bulgerian women's choir representing inupiat Spiritualism. A massive horde of people who live in literal s*** for India. Someone making your culture sexual and in some cases aiding and encouraging more rape is correlation is to be believed. Also being compared to animals, that might piss off the Powhatan people for example (Pocahontas is a 10/10 sexy woman who looks like a super model, gets with the white saint, walks like an animal at various points and rarely has). This is an extremely complex topic relating to the fact that well... We did a lot of s***ty things, and in many cases continue to do s***ty things to the people we then culturally appropriate, so I can't blame anyone for getting annoyed or even at what in many cases just feels like the smuggest f***ing they can do to a people. Especially since it'll happen again. And again. And again. And again. And that clever joke someone thought of relating to their background, has problem been told to them 1000s of times. |
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| Dankness Lava | May 2 2018, 02:25 AM Post #10 |
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Dankness Forever
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I'm not gonna lie I don't know enough about this so I probably sound pretty dumb. |
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| + Emmeth | May 2 2018, 07:12 AM Post #11 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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Cultural appropration is one of the dumbest things to be offended by. Who cares how someone dresses? This is a very innocent act by an innocent girl, she wasn't trying to make a statement. Things like this can ruin someone's life. |
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| + Steve | May 2 2018, 09:33 AM Post #12 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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The thing is it's almost always just about clothing. Pocahontas and the Powhatan people is a pretty rare example among all this outrage, can see how that would make sense. Though we do have to touch on that being a pretty old example, movies like Moana and their much more rich connection to Mouri culture do it better these days, people loved that movie. As said, it's almost always just about something someone has wore, not actually imitating or deliberately misrepresenting a culture. Heck people get mad when people properly represent a culture or at least try to... Like this case with the girl being thrown a Japanese party https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/08/02/japanese-birthday-party_a_23061529/ (huffingtonpost I know) Japanese people don't actually care, it was everyone else getting angry on their behalf throwing out the "racism" card as if there was anything offensive there at all. Stuff like that is totally fine, it's hardly messing with history. If you're going to take a movie or something that details an important part of a cultures history but you're also going to completely change it and attribute success to us whiteys, then that's a fair enough reason to be outraged. Just wearing clothes on it's own is not offensive unless that's the express intention behind them. That little girl wasn't hurting anyone, just the stupid feelings of people who want to be angry.
They do have the right to be offended. But they are not entitled to police how people live, especially not for something so simple as wearing clothing they can legally buy or make themselves. I'm offended by a non Scottish person wearing a kilt? Well, so f***ing what? I can froth at the mouth all I want but they as an individual are entitled to their life, it is not something I get to control because I'm irrationally angry about their choices. It might have a deep significant meaning to me and not them but someone else wearing a kilt does not take away from what it means to me. Culture is stronger and more important than that. Not entirely the same but imagine feeling like your wedding was ruined because someone else wore a wedding dress, like you are the only person who should ever have been able to wear one. It's a pretty silly mindset to have. Some people probably have Menorah's that they use for incense or "just because it looks nice" Does that completely destroy the Jewish and render them unable to partake in or enjoy their religion? Edited by Steve, May 2 2018, 09:35 AM.
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| Tinny | May 2 2018, 12:37 PM Post #13 |
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There's a lot more to this than how someone dresses, as I've already stated. Acts don't exist in a vacuum unfortunately. @Steve I refer to my previous statements for the wedding dress analogy, and regarding the "policing other people" left me know when they're making laws to enforce certain practices along ethnic and racial lines (that actually pass or have a good chance at passing, not some hypothetical suggestion) and I'll agree, until them you're complaining about people complaining about their culture being represented falsely, and that just seems petty to me. If you can't handle people being offended, don't do things that offend them. I would have thought this was simple for us to understand. But evidently is modern culture is clear on this, the isn't. You have the right to blackface, other people have the right to call you out on doing black face, you do not have the right to avoid criticism for this (no matter how frothing or angry it is), you only have the right to not listen to them. Edited by Tinny, May 2 2018, 12:43 PM.
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| Rockman | May 2 2018, 12:42 PM Post #14 |
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hoighty-toighty
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Except it's not always about clothing. It's typically about things that are worn that signifying honor in either a Religious or sacred tone. Wearing those things outside of their typical ceremonies at times that are inappropriate to why they were first used is considered rude and mocking. For instance, let's say a Kimono was only worn to honor the dead at the highest regard. You turn around and wear a Kimono to a furry convention and get yiffed from behind while wearing. You don't think that's going to upset someone? None of that's true, but its easy to see how someone could take offense to your s***ty decision. |
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| + Ginyu | May 2 2018, 01:48 PM Post #15 |
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Leve Feyenoord 1!
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Why am I the one who needs to switch perspective? We do we just always switch to the perspective to the ones that don't feel comfortable and feel offended all the time. Why can't they just see that this girl is not harming or disrespecting anyone? It seems like they want society segregated where only Chinese people can wear Chinese dresses. You can only wear a traditional garment if you're from that culture. That's pure racism. Do we really want to get to a point where people are being policed about what they choose to wear, even without any harmful intentions? Perhaps they are the ones who need to change their perspective and realize that the freedom to wear whatever you want is more important than this particular girl not fully knowing the history of the dress. Edited by Ginyu, May 2 2018, 01:49 PM.
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