| We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum. If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away. Click here to Register! If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk If you're already a member please log in to your account: |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Could Goku and Ultimate Gohan even fuse? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 17 2018, 02:07 AM (1,074 Views) | |
| StrenuousSpider | May 8 2018, 02:48 AM Post #16 |
![]()
|
Strictly speaking Dbz ultimate was gohans full power so at the time no. But since the retcon of ultimate yes they can. As for goku fusing with vegeta the ssj forms dont count as someone being 4x stronger. Goku and vegeta are equals in the since one is not stronger then the other without transformations. While ssj3 is gokus full power at the time his base is still relative to vegetas. Ones transformation powers are irrelevant for one to fuse if there natural states are equal or around equal. |
![]() | |
![]() |
|
| + Son-Goku | May 8 2018, 02:50 AM Post #17 |
![]()
孫悟空
![]()
|
I mean, I would imagine he could use his Ultimate form after fusion. Even if that's not the case, Gohan only has to bring his power down. I don't see why it wouldn't work. |
![]() RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power | |
![]() |
|
| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | May 8 2018, 03:02 AM Post #18 |
![]() ![]()
|
What are you talking about? There is no retcon about Gohan's power. He isn't Ultimate 24/7. He has to power up into it. Otherwise he's just at his normal base power. Goku advocated him fusing with Gohan via the dance so obviously they can use it. You're claiming that Vegeta can fuse with Goku despite being 4x weaker than Goku's full power, yet at the same time claiming that Goku can't fuse with Gohan since he's weaker than the Gohan's full power. Despite Goku saying that they could. It doesn't make any sense. |
|
Spoiler: click to toggle Spoiler: click to toggle Spoiler: click to toggle Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
![]() |
|
| Dan The Commentator | May 8 2018, 04:22 AM Post #19 |
![]() ![]()
|
The manga doesn't even hint at Ultimate being something Gohan can turn on and off. Heck, it implies the opposite: - When Goku raves over how powerful Gohan is without even being a Super Saiyan, Old Kaioshin remarks that transformations are the wrong way of doing things. - Gohan never loses the physical changes to his appearance. Even when ten years later when he's a family man and a scholar, he still looks Ultimate. Super portraying Ultimate as a transformation doesn't necessarily mean anything because Super is an unfocused mess of slipshod and inconsistent writing based on fairly vague outlines from Toriyama, who often displays and even acknowledges a notable lack of retention in regards to the finer details of his own creation. And it's no surprise that the manga version, which is written for the most part by one person (a former Dragon Ball doujinshi author, no less) and is a lot more consistent when it comes to the details, hasn't portrayed Gohan's Ultimate state as being a transformation... Yet. We'll see soon if he screws it up in the TOP. In short, Goku only suggests fusing with Gohan because the "similar powers" qualifier slipped his (re: Toriyama's) mind in his haste. Goku and Vegeta can fuse despite their mismatched full powers because they have weaker base forms they can match, whereas Gohan doesn't. |
![]() |
|
| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | May 8 2018, 09:13 PM Post #20 |
![]() ![]()
|
You're making up you're own narrative. None of what you're saying has any basis. Old Kai told him going Ultimate was the gist of Super Saiyan with a Kai thrown in. So he powers up into it. He's shown powering up into Ultimate while in the Kaioshin realm and he's shown without the Ultimate features after Boo is killed. And even if Gohan was never shown deactivating Ultimate which isn't true, it still wouldn't mean that he can't since there isn't anything in the story stating or showing that he can't. You think he can't because you're assuming it, not because it stated or shown. |
|
Spoiler: click to toggle Spoiler: click to toggle Spoiler: click to toggle Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
![]() |
|
| Dan The Commentator | May 9 2018, 01:38 AM Post #21 |
![]() ![]()
|
You'll have to show me where in the manga he doesn't have Ultimate features after Boo kicked the bucket, because in my copy, he keeps them until the very end. Gohan powers up into Ultimate once to finalize the ritual, and he never does it again, because he always looks Ultimate till the end. The fact that Gohan never deactivates Ultimate, which is true, the fact that Gohan was resurrected in Ultimate, the fact that he still looks Ultimate after he's ten years retired from fighting (not counting Super), and the fact that Ultimate just looks barely different from Gohan's base anyways all implies that it's just an upgrade to his base form. The fact that Toei Animation portrays it as an additional transformation so that they can continue to keep his marketable Super Saiyan look around to sell toys (despite the fact that Old Kaioshin says it isn't a transformation) doesn't change that. |
![]() |
|
| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | May 9 2018, 02:27 AM Post #22 |
![]() ![]()
|
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-R5RfDqjKa8U/V6JN6sjDeyI/AAAAAAAB6Ng/mMZ2QWnfjTw6qeanzemBdO7xBsGQ9sdXQCHM/s16000/0323-009.png The ritual was done after Old Kai said it was finished. Gohan didn't "finalize" anything. He wasn't automatically Ultimate after the ritual was done. He had to power up into it. I mean you don't have anything stating or showing that Gohan's base and Ultimate are no different. You can't just write Super off because it doesn't support the notion you believe in which was never stated in the first place. Base Gohan and Ultimate Gohan are different. Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, May 9 2018, 02:30 AM.
|
|
Spoiler: click to toggle Spoiler: click to toggle Spoiler: click to toggle Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
![]() |
|
| Dan The Commentator | May 9 2018, 06:07 AM Post #23 |
![]() ![]()
|
I don't know what you expected to prove with that picture. Closed drawn eyes, more muscle mass than pre-ritual Gohan. He looks pretty Ultimate to me. As you yourself have proved with your own picture, Old Kaioshin's ritual had certain permanent physical alterations that lasted for ten years that only appeared after he "turned Super Saiyan with a kiai" (pre-kiai, post-kiai). It's indisputable that going "Super Saiyan" did something permanent to Gohan, as his very character design is changed for the rest of the manga. This, along with Goku commenting how Gohan's appearance has barely changed and Old Kaioshin remarking that transforming isn't good, heavily implies that this is an upgrade to his base. Ah, but which version of Super do I have to take into account? Because the manga supports my stance (so far). There's no instance of Gohan powering up into or down from Ultimate in there. Not to mention that Gohan looks pretty Ultimate even before they leave Earth for the Tournament of Power. |
![]() |
|
| + Six Trails | May 9 2018, 06:22 AM Post #24 |
![]()
|
Is Krillin or Gohan's potential unlock from Guru a transformation (Budokai 1 aside)? |
![]() |
|
| Dan The Commentator | May 9 2018, 07:10 AM Post #25 |
![]() ![]()
|
Obviously not, but it does seem to work a bit differently than Old Kaioshin's. The Grand Elder's power-up took effect immediately, but it seemed to cause Gohan and Kuririn to gradually release power over time, given how they were barely at 10,000 while fighting the Ginyu Force, but later they were able manhandle Goku-Ginyu who had a stated BP of 23,000, and even later they were able to not immediately die while fighting Freeza. Gohan's Saiyan heritage could justify his increasing power, but Kuririn is implied to be growing in strength, to (heck, Vegeta even states it outright). Old Kaioshin takes a while to work his magic, but the full effects are immediately apparent after he finishes(or at least after the recipient revs themself up). And whether or not you think his ability functions like a transformation (I don't), it does cause visible, if subtle alterations to the user's body. |
![]() |
|
| TrunksinSwimmingTrunks | May 9 2018, 02:34 PM Post #26 |
![]()
Formerly known as daman
![]()
|
But when he powered up, his hair didn't change at all. Goku even comments that he's hardly changed at all. That's in chapter 496, at the same time that Elder Kaioshin says that transformations such as SSJ aren't the way to go about things.
On top of that, when Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Kid Trunks or Goten are unconscious, they revert back to their base form. During the fight with Buutenks, Gohan gets battered and even appears to go unconscious at one point (just before Mr Satan comes to help), yet never powers back up, even after Dende heals him. edit: There is actually at least one other time in the manga that a saiyan went unconscious and remained a SSJ and that's when Majin Vegeta knocks out Goku, so I guess it is actually possible to stay in a transformed state when unconscious. One thing that COULD suggest it's a different form, is that Piccolo, Goten and Trunks all don't recognise his ki when he arrives on Earth, but it wouldn't be the first time that that's happened without someone going into a new form. Edited by TrunksinSwimmingTrunks, May 9 2018, 03:22 PM.
|
|
kamizake pyro is a girl? olsiw Make the old spam section viewable plz | |
![]() |
|
| 0 users reading this topic | |
| « Previous Topic · Dragon Ball/Z Discussion · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
4:37 PM Jul 13
|
Theme Designed by McKee91
Powered by ZetaBoards Premium · Privacy Policy



















4:37 PM Jul 13